Author Topic: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?  (Read 8755 times)

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Offline ctrey

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This will most likely anger everyone but I do not see the point in trading away all these great potential assets for Kevin Love. Let's go with idea that we get Love and Asik to go with Rondo. Completely doable, correct? That leaves us razor thin on the bench, still needing scoring and no better than Chicago, Indiana or Miami should they stay together which in the end I think they will do for a number of reasons I do not need to delve into here. So Love comes here, we trade away all our picks to get him and we still are not winning a title. Even if we get out of the East (Doubtful) are we better than any of the top four or five teams in the west? We most certainly are not. So why does Love come here? I just do not get it. Additionally we only have picks to give them. At this point neither Olynyk or Sullinger are considered better than Jefferson was prospect-wise. (I disagree on Sullinger, see below) Why does Minnesota trade it's best player again to Boston? The PR nightmare would be too much. If Love wants to win now, face it, Boston is in no way the destination.

Furthermore, why would we want him? Yes, Love has put up gaudy numbers but has never made the playoffs. A few times surrounded by decent talent. They could not run down Phoenix or Dallas last year? With a guy averaging 25 and 12? Why not? Additionally if we get Love he wants the max. Rondo will want the max or darn close, Asik will need over 10 to 12 million. There goes your cap on three great but flawed players. Add to that we have no picks left and what have you got? No title and a team that wins 50 games a year but loses in the second round for five years running. We would be like the Houston Rockets of the last 15 years or so. I say we keep our picks and draft, draft, draft. Let Sullinger have a year to get in shape and come into his own. Would anyone here be shocked if Sully averaged 18 and 11 next year? If he does (He will) why pay Love 20 million when you basically get the same guy for 1.5 million? It makes no sense. Why trade Olynyk when he could become one of the most unique players in the modern NBA, a big-man Sixth Man? Think of it, he can handle well, shoot well, pass well. He could come off the bench and simply crush second string centers and PF's. Either position he would play his unique skills would befuddle second string guys. Olynyk is too much of a defensive liability to start at either the 4 or 5 but a sixth man offensive spark as a big, he would be one of a kind in the current NBA. Additionally we could still get Asik for the trade exception plus I bet we could get another pick out of Houston for getting them off the hook for Asik's salary. That gives us even more chances to draft great cheap talent which is the way this league is going. All these picks also afford coach Stevens to draft his guys. Guys that play his system. Why do you think he was at all the workouts. Doc was NEVER at the workouts. This signals a sea change regarding how the team is going to be built and developed. Let Stevens and Ainge get their guys for their plan. Not a max paid malcontent who may not fit.

In the end, from every angle I do not see it. Love coming here does not get us #18. So why would he, or we want that? Additionally I think the history of KG is too much for Minnesota to swallow to make the same deal twice.

OK, start ripping away.  ;)

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2014, 02:14:41 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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This will most likely anger everyone but I do not see the point in trading away all these great potential assets for Kevin Love. Let's go with idea that we get Love and Asik to go with Rondo. Completely doable, correct? That leaves us razor thin on the bench

You lost me here. Why does Ainge stop at adding Asik and Love?
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Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 02:20:42 PM »

Offline gpap

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To answer the second part of your question:

Because he's a good player.

Also, I've got to admit.

These references to "giving up the farm" and "giving up great potential assets" are driving me insane!!!

If I can make a suggestion, let's ignore and forget the term asset and farm:

Let's just stick with this theory and/or breakdown:

We are giving up "playes and picks" for a really good player

Also, you have to deal value to receive value.

It looks like the terms "asset" and "farm" have taken on a life of their own.

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 02:23:17 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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To answer the second part of your question:

Because he's a good player.

Also, I've got to admit.

These references to "giving up the farm" and "giving up great potential assets" are driving me insane!!!

If I can make a suggestion, let's ignore and forget the term asset and farm:

Let's just stick with this theory and/or breakdown:

We are giving up "playes and picks" for a really good player

Also, you have to deal value to receive value.

Fine. In your vernacular We shouldn't give up too many picks for Kevin Love, because some of those picks could very easily wind up being more valuable than he will be to the Celtics, especially when it comes to winning another championship.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 02:26:42 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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This will most likely anger everyone but I do not see the point in trading away all these great potential assets for Kevin Love. Let's go with idea that we get Love and Asik to go with Rondo. Completely doable, correct? That leaves us razor thin on the bench, still needing scoring and no better than Chicago, Indiana or Miami should they stay together which in the end I think they will do for a number of reasons I do not need to delve into here. So Love comes here, we trade away all our picks to get him and we still are not winning a title. Even if we get out of the East (Doubtful) are we better than any of the top four or five teams in the west? We most certainly are not. So why does Love come here? I just do not get it. Additionally we only have picks to give them. At this point neither Olynyk or Sullinger are considered better than Jefferson was prospect-wise. (I disagree on Sullinger, see below) Why does Minnesota trade it's best player again to Boston? The PR nightmare would be too much. If Love wants to win now, face it, Boston is in no way the destination.

Furthermore, why would we want him? Yes, Love has put up gaudy numbers but has never made the playoffs. A few times surrounded by decent talent. They could not run down Phoenix or Dallas last year? With a guy averaging 25 and 12? Why not? Additionally if we get Love he wants the max. Rondo will want the max or darn close, Asik will need over 10 to 12 million. There goes your cap on three great but flawed players. Add to that we have no picks left and what have you got? No title and a team that wins 50 games a year but loses in the second round for five years running. We would be like the Houston Rockets of the last 15 years or so. I say we keep our picks and draft, draft, draft. Let Sullinger have a year to get in shape and come into his own. Would anyone here be shocked if Sully averaged 18 and 11 next year? If he does (He will) why pay Love 20 million when you basically get the same guy for 1.5 million? It makes no sense. Why trade Olynyk when he could become one of the most unique players in the modern NBA, a big-man Sixth Man? Think of it, he can handle well, shoot well, pass well. He could come off the bench and simply crush second string centers and PF's. Either position he would play his unique skills would befuddle second string guys. Olynyk is too much of a defensive liability to start at either the 4 or 5 but a sixth man offensive spark as a big, he would be one of a kind in the current NBA. Additionally we could still get Asik for the trade exception plus I bet we could get another pick out of Houston for getting them off the hook for Asik's salary. That gives us even more chances to draft great cheap talent which is the way this league is going. All these picks also afford coach Stevens to draft his guys. Guys that play his system. Why do you think he was at all the workouts. Doc was NEVER at the workouts. This signals a sea change regarding how the team is going to be built and developed. Let Stevens and Ainge get their guys for their plan. Not a max paid malcontent who may not fit.

In the end, from every angle I do not see it. Love coming here does not get us #18. So why would he, or we want that? Additionally I think the history of KG is too much for Minnesota to swallow to make the same deal twice.

OK, start ripping away.  ;)

The highlighted text is basically a talking points version for every critic of a Love trade, and virtually all of these statements are baseless assumptions (or pie-in-the-sky thinking):

Ainge will not trade every pick to get Love.
There will still be assets and avenues to add to the core of the team, even after Asik and Love are acquired
There's no indication that any of these players will DEMAND salaries you claim they will.
There's no indication that Sullinger or Olynyk are assured to turn into All-Star or 6th Men candidates. [I also like how Minnesota doesn't want either of those guys, but they'll be franchise players for Boston.]

If you want to construct a strawman argument against a Love trade, this is how you do it.
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Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 02:29:16 PM »

Offline gpap

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To answer the second part of your question:

Because he's a good player.

Also, I've got to admit.

These references to "giving up the farm" and "giving up great potential assets" are driving me insane!!!

If I can make a suggestion, let's ignore and forget the term asset and farm:

Let's just stick with this theory and/or breakdown:

We are giving up "playes and picks" for a really good player

Also, you have to deal value to receive value.

Fine. In your vernacular We shouldn't give up too many picks for Kevin Love, because some of those picks could very easily wind up being more valuable than he will be to the Celtics, especially when it comes to winning another championship.

I just don't see it.

It's going to take 3-5 years for those draft picks to turn into good players.

Why wait that long?

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 02:32:16 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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To answer the second part of your question:

Because he's a good player.

Also, I've got to admit.

These references to "giving up the farm" and "giving up great potential assets" are driving me insane!!!

If I can make a suggestion, let's ignore and forget the term asset and farm:

Let's just stick with this theory and/or breakdown:

We are giving up "playes and picks" for a really good player

Also, you have to deal value to receive value.

Fine. In your vernacular We shouldn't give up too many picks for Kevin Love, because some of those picks could very easily wind up being more valuable than he will be to the Celtics, especially when it comes to winning another championship.

I just don't see it.

It's going to take 3-5 years for those draft picks to turn into good players.

Why wait that long?

You don't actually have to draft with all those picks.  You can move them in subsequent trade packages.

In order to get this team back to contendership, it's going to take more than Love.  More moves will have to be made. 

Those picks can also act as currency. 


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 03:15:16 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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^ Nicely said.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 03:16:01 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Quote
This will most likely anger everyone but I do not see the point in trading away all these great potential assets for Kevin Love.

Because in the NBA nowadays, you don't win Banners with the embolded part...."maybe" one day you will.

There are so many "IFs" involved with "Maybe."

In BOS's case, though, to wait the 2-3 years, (Sully) the 3-4 years(KO), and the 5 years for Aaron Gordon and whomever we selected at 17 would probably send Rondo packing at the end of his contract. This would, in turn, result in perpetual tanking and lottery picks for the next 5-10 years I'm guessing.

We lose Rondo, and we'd might as well:



All of the top finishers in the playoffs and post-season won with established talent - not potential.

For me, I've already lived through The Lean Years. If Danny gets the opportunity to land a player of Love's caliber - go for it.




Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 03:19:47 PM »

Offline gpap

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Quote
This will most likely anger everyone but I do not see the point in trading away all these great potential assets for Kevin Love.

Because in the NBA nowadays, you don't win Banners with the embolded part...."maybe" one day you will.

There are so many "IFs" involved with "Maybe."

In BOS's case, though, to wait the 2-3 years, (Sully) the 3-4 years(KO), and the 5 years for Aaron Gordon and whomever we selected at 17 would probably send Rondo packing at the end of his contract. This would, in turn, result in perpetual tanking and lottery picks for the next 5-10 years I'm guessing.

We lose Rondo, and we'd might as well:



All of the top finishers in the playoffs and post-season won with established talent - not potential.

For me, I've already lived through The Lean Years. If Danny gets the opportunity to land a player of Love's caliber - go for it.

Exactly my thoughts.

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 03:29:15 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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To answer the second part of your question:

Because he's a good player.

Also, I've got to admit.

These references to "giving up the farm" and "giving up great potential assets" are driving me insane!!!

If I can make a suggestion, let's ignore and forget the term asset and farm:

Let's just stick with this theory and/or breakdown:

We are giving up "playes and picks" for a really good player

Also, you have to deal value to receive value.

Fine. In your vernacular We shouldn't give up too many picks for Kevin Love, because some of those picks could very easily wind up being more valuable than he will be to the Celtics, especially when it comes to winning another championship.

Well said

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 03:34:03 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Quote
This will most likely anger everyone but I do not see the point in trading away all these great potential assets for Kevin Love.

Because in the NBA nowadays, you don't win Banners with the embolded part...."maybe" one day you will.

There are so many "IFs" involved with "Maybe."

In BOS's case, though, to wait the 2-3 years, (Sully) the 3-4 years(KO), and the 5 years for Aaron Gordon and whomever we selected at 17 would probably send Rondo packing at the end of his contract. This would, in turn, result in perpetual tanking and lottery picks for the next 5-10 years I'm guessing.

We lose Rondo, and we'd might as well:



All of the top finishers in the playoffs and post-season won with established talent - not potential.

For me, I've already lived through The Lean Years. If Danny gets the opportunity to land a player of Love's caliber - go for it.

Exactly my thoughts.

The lean years are irrelevant because we have better front office now.

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2014, 03:41:51 PM »

Offline Sixth Man

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This will most likely anger everyone but I do not see the point in trading away all these great potential assets for Kevin Love. Let's go with idea that we get Love and Asik to go with Rondo. Completely doable, correct? That leaves us razor thin on the bench

You lost me here. Why does Ainge stop at adding Asik and Love?

Because he'd have already depleted his store of 'assets' to obtain them, especially Love...

With Rondo, Love and Asik on the roster, what do you think our salary cap position would look like???

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2014, 03:42:38 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Quote
This will most likely anger everyone but I do not see the point in trading away all these great potential assets for Kevin Love.

Because in the NBA nowadays, you don't win Banners with the embolded part...."maybe" one day you will.

There are so many "IFs" involved with "Maybe."

In BOS's case, though, to wait the 2-3 years, (Sully) the 3-4 years(KO), and the 5 years for Aaron Gordon and whomever we selected at 17 would probably send Rondo packing at the end of his contract. This would, in turn, result in perpetual tanking and lottery picks for the next 5-10 years I'm guessing.

We lose Rondo, and we'd might as well:



All of the top finishers in the playoffs and post-season won with established talent - not potential.

For me, I've already lived through The Lean Years. If Danny gets the opportunity to land a player of Love's caliber - go for it.

Exactly my thoughts.

The lean years are irrelevant because we have better front office now.

Perhaps irrelevant to you, but to me - not so much.

And with your response, here - you're saying that you don't mind waiting for these Great POTENTIAL picks to sit in the oven and bake?

I hope you have a special oven and recipe, because that is a LONG cooking process....and at the end we really don't know what the dish will look like.

I want my meat and potatoes



With the Main Meal, we can add side dishes and sprinkle with salt and pepper.

But we're not getting full off of POTENTIAL.

Re: Why would Love want to come here and why would we want him to?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2014, 03:44:32 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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every move is a risk, there are no guarantees (well unless you're Miami right?, but that's another discussion). Love when healthy is a top 15 player who will instantly make this team better. Will he guarantee us a chip, no, but he might help attract other top FA to Boston in which will increase our chance at going for a chip

2. yes draft picks are valuable, but even they are big risks...if you draft like the Cavs, you probably are wasting your time. I want to get Love, but at the right price. I don't want to gut the entire roster to get him to pair with Rondo.