Author Topic: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?  (Read 1911 times)

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Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2014, 01:25:58 AM »

Online saltlover

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My opinion is of no more value than any other... I'm just shocked at the love for Smart. He is 6'2 and people are talking about him guarding a SF?  Pair him with Bradley, one pick and switch and then it's post up against two 6'2 guards. Smart is not a shooter, so pair him with rondo and watch defenses sag into the paint and go under every pick and roll.

I may be wrong, but the Celtics need guys who can create space and at least keep perimeter defenders honest. Now if we don't get love and are total rebuild, then trade Rondo and gamble on smart...sign Jackson or mills as a FA. Add Hayward to that mix and you have three guys who can attack and shoot and pass.

2 things regarding Smart guarding small forwads:

1) Not all small forwards are created equal, and they have different roles in their respective offenses.  I think Smart could guard a wing like Jimmy Butler or Aaron Afflalo, who are sometimes the small forward in certain lineups.  I don't think Smart could guard a LeBron-sized behemoth for the entire game, although few players can.  He had enough size/strength/quickness to completely frustrate Andrew Wiggins in their three matchups this season, so at least at the college level, he's shown an ability to guard elite length and quickness.

2) Smart does have enough size and quickness to harass most small forwards on a switch.  Guarding one the entire game might be too much, but he wouldn't necessarily be a liability if he switched onto a small forward on a screen, the same as Aaron Gordon wouldn't be a liability if he switched onto a point guard.

Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2014, 04:10:54 AM »

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I think he's got a good shot at being an All Star and top 15 player.
People are saying he's not as quick as certain guards, but he is stronger than pretty much any PG in the NBA.
His lateral quickness is very good and he posted a lane agility score better than Westbrook and Chris Paul.
Watch him play defense against Exum at the U/19 world champs. Someone put the vid from draft express up recently and he completely shuts a young Exum down when Exum burns everyone else.
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Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2014, 08:23:26 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think physically from his build and weight he is going to be stronger than all those guys in terms on strength.   Strength is useful in basketball but not the end all.   Most guys in the NBA will be stronger than the guys in NCAA. He won't as able to bully his way to rim in the pros.  It should be an adjustment but by accounts he has heart and strong will.

His shot is not as good.   He will probably take a few years to develop it more.  Defensively once he learns how they call the game, I think he will be ok.  Strong guys can guard guys taller than them.   They push them around with their legs and with their arms and hope they don't get caught.   But think of some of the strong guys we have had they can push guys outside of their comfort zone and throw guys off their game.   I rather have an athletic guy ( fast and strong) over just a strong guy though if given a choice and a taller player if all other things were equal.

Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2014, 09:15:53 AM »

Online manl_lui

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I think physically from his build and weight he is going to be stronger than all those guys in terms on strength.   Strength is useful in basketball but not the end all.   Most guys in the NBA will be stronger than the guys in NCAA. He won't as able to bully his way to rim in the pros.  It should be an adjustment but by accounts he has heart and strong will.

His shot is not as good.   He will probably take a few years to develop it more.  Defensively once he learns how they call the game, I think he will be ok.  Strong guys can guard guys taller than them.   They push them around with their legs and with their arms and hope they don't get caught.   But think of some of the strong guys we have had they can push guys outside of their comfort zone and throw guys off their game.   I rather have an athletic guy ( fast and strong) over just a strong guy though if given a choice and a taller player if all other things were equal.

actually that reminds me, Wall, Westbrook came into the league not being fantastic shooters, and Westbrook is also a known chucker for a while (probably still is). I don't see why Smart's shot is that much of a deal breaker for people. I know for a fact some if not most people here would give up Rondo for Westbrook.

I am just imagining how Smart will bully small pg to the rim early on. And I also agree he will learn the NBA system quick offensively and defensively.

Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2014, 09:56:43 AM »

Offline birdwatcher

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The crazy thing about Smart jumping up and down the top ten is that before predraft workouts, a lot of talking heads were saying they doubted his skills were transferrable to the NBA, that he was one of the guys with no upside, what you see is what you get.


Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2014, 10:32:46 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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I've said this before but since repeating oneself is part of being a good blog citizen:   

I think Smart is going to be a good pro, and like many here, I love his attitude, but I personally do not like his style of play on offense and do not think it makes any sense to pick him at #6 unless we are trading him or Rondo.

A backcourt with both Rondo and Smart makes no sense from a spacing perspective.  In fact, that sounds like a disaster.

Several posters post hopefully and encouragingly that maybe Smart will fix his absurdly broken jump shot.  And maybe that will happen.   But why does it still look SOOOO awful after TWO college seasons, during which he took a ton of 3PT shots in games (not to mention how many in practice)?

He's taken almost 300 3PT attempts over that span -- 4.6 per game -- and probably thousands in practice, so it is not as if this is some obscure, low usage part of his game that coaches can ignore.

Why hasn't it shown any improvement?   He 'improved' from a gawd-awful 29.0% as a freshman to a still-gawd-awful 29.9% as a sophomore.

I can live without a PG who can shoot 3PT shots.  Seriously, I don't really believe that a PG HAS to be able to make them.    I could care less if Rondo never took another 3PT shot in his NBA career.

But if you can't make them at an efficient rate  WHY THE HECK ARE YOU TAKING THEM?????

Taking lots of low-efficiency shots hurts your team.  It's my biggest peeve in basketball.   "It's a make/miss league." is not just a trite saying.  It is a dead-on truism.   Misses are no different than turnovers 70% of the time.  If you miss a lot, you lose games.

This is one of the reasons why Rondo is such a good player - he may not take a lot of shots, but he takes the shots he's efficient at and that's why his career shooting efficiencies are very good.  He doesn't hurt his team by generating excess misses.

If Smart had that same ugly shooting form and same lousy efficiency at them and only took maybe 1 3PT shot per game, and did everything else in his game exactly the same, I would be extremely high on him.

If I could be confident that he will change his game in the NBA to either (a) actually truly be able to fix his shot mechanics OR (b) become far more discriminating with his own shots (i.e., more "Rondo-like") then I'd be totally on-board with taking Smart at #6.

But I'm not confident of either of those things.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 11:15:29 AM by mmmmm »
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Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2014, 10:36:14 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Smart is thicker and stronger than the others, and may not be quite as expolsive.  But if he is anywhere close to these guys, shouldnt we take him no matter what?  At the very least, he or Exum should be there.  I guess if Utah took Smart, that would be the only nightmare scenario.
If Smart were anywhere close to these guys, he'd be the consensus #1 pick in the draft.
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Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2014, 10:46:53 AM »

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I've said this before but since repeating oneself is part of being a good blog citizen:   

I think Smart is going to be a good pro, and like many here, I love his attitude, but I personally do not like his style of play on offense and do not think it makes any sense to pick him at #6 unless we are trading him or Rondo.

A backcourt with both Rondo and Smart makes no sense from a spacing perspective.  In fact, that sounds like a disaster.

Several posters post hopefully and encouragingly that maybe Smart will fix is absurdly broken jump shot.  And maybe that will happen.   But why does it still look SOOOO awful after TWO college seasons, during which he took a ton of 3PT shots in games (not to mention how many in practice)?

He's taken almost 300 3PT attempts over that span -- 4.6 per game -- and probably thousands in practice, so it is not as if this is some obscure, low usage part of his game that coaches can ignore.

Why hasn't it shown any improvement?   He 'improved' from a gawd-awful 29.0% as a freshman to a still-gawd-awful 29.9% as a sophomore.

I can live without a PG who can shoot 3PT shots.  Seriously, I don't really believe that a PG HAS to be able to make them.    I could care less if Rondo never took another 3PT shot in his NBA career.

But if you can't make them at an efficient rate  WHY THE HECK ARE YOU TAKING THEM?????

Taking lots of low-efficiency shots hurts your team.  It's my biggest peeve in basketball.   "It's a make/miss league." is not just a trite saying.  It is a dead-on truism.   Misses are no different than turnovers 70% of the time.  If you miss a lot, you lose games.

This is one of the reasons why Rondo is such a good player - he may not take a lot of shots, but he takes the shots he's efficient at and that's why his career shooting efficiencies are very good.  He doesn't hurt his team by generating excess misses.

If Smart had that same ugly shooting form and same lousy efficiency at them and only took maybe 1 3PT shot per game, and did everything else in his game exactly the same, I would be extremely high on him.

If I could be confident that he will change his game in the NBA to either (a) actually truly be able to fix his shot mechanics OR (b) become far more discriminating with his own shots (i.e., more "Rondo-like") then I'd be totally on-board with taking Smart at #6.

But I'm not confident of either of those things.

A Rondo/Smart backcourt makes little sense, that's true, but what are your thoughts on having Smart as the third guard in the rotation?
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Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2014, 10:50:25 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Smart is thicker and stronger than the others, and may not be quite as expolsive.  But if he is anywhere close to these guys, shouldnt we take him no matter what?  At the very least, he or Exum should be there.  I guess if Utah took Smart, that would be the only nightmare scenario.
If Smart were anywhere close to these guys, he'd be the consensus #1 pick in the draft.

   This is where I am in all these threads.

Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2014, 11:20:35 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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I've said this before but since repeating oneself is part of being a good blog citizen:   

I think Smart is going to be a good pro, and like many here, I love his attitude, but I personally do not like his style of play on offense and do not think it makes any sense to pick him at #6 unless we are trading him or Rondo.

A backcourt with both Rondo and Smart makes no sense from a spacing perspective.  In fact, that sounds like a disaster.

Several posters post hopefully and encouragingly that maybe Smart will fix is absurdly broken jump shot.  And maybe that will happen.   But why does it still look SOOOO awful after TWO college seasons, during which he took a ton of 3PT shots in games (not to mention how many in practice)?

He's taken almost 300 3PT attempts over that span -- 4.6 per game -- and probably thousands in practice, so it is not as if this is some obscure, low usage part of his game that coaches can ignore.

Why hasn't it shown any improvement?   He 'improved' from a gawd-awful 29.0% as a freshman to a still-gawd-awful 29.9% as a sophomore.

I can live without a PG who can shoot 3PT shots.  Seriously, I don't really believe that a PG HAS to be able to make them.    I could care less if Rondo never took another 3PT shot in his NBA career.

But if you can't make them at an efficient rate  WHY THE HECK ARE YOU TAKING THEM?????

Taking lots of low-efficiency shots hurts your team.  It's my biggest peeve in basketball.   "It's a make/miss league." is not just a trite saying.  It is a dead-on truism.   Misses are no different than turnovers 70% of the time.  If you miss a lot, you lose games.

This is one of the reasons why Rondo is such a good player - he may not take a lot of shots, but he takes the shots he's efficient at and that's why his career shooting efficiencies are very good.  He doesn't hurt his team by generating excess misses.

If Smart had that same ugly shooting form and same lousy efficiency at them and only took maybe 1 3PT shot per game, and did everything else in his game exactly the same, I would be extremely high on him.

If I could be confident that he will change his game in the NBA to either (a) actually truly be able to fix his shot mechanics OR (b) become far more discriminating with his own shots (i.e., more "Rondo-like") then I'd be totally on-board with taking Smart at #6.

But I'm not confident of either of those things.

A Rondo/Smart backcourt makes little sense, that's true, but what are your thoughts on having Smart as the third guard in the rotation?

Why would I spend a #6 pick on someone to be a "3rd guard in the rotation"?  Don't I want a guy I hope can be a starter?   If I draft Smart, it's either to play at PG or SG.  If at PG, I've already got Rondo starting.  If at SG, he makes no sense next to Rondo.     For Smart to be used as SG, you want him next to a more 'shoot-first' oriented PG like Curry, who can act as space-creator balance to Smart's bully-to-the-hoop game.

A '3rd guard in the rotation' has to end up paired with each of the other two guards at some point.
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Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2014, 11:54:07 AM »

Offline Nef-Oracle

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He's talented to reach their level but i don't see why we would take him. We're looking for a sf now so i don't see Ainge taking another guard. Unless we're moving Rondo we gonna take Gordon or Dougie McBuckets. Personally i'll take Napier over these two.

Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2014, 11:56:00 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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He's talented to reach their level but i don't see why we would take him. We're looking for a sf now so i don't see Ainge taking another guard. Unless we're moving Rondo we gonna take Gordon or Dougie McBuckets. Personally i'll take Napier over these two.

We take him if we believe he is the best player at six because you never, ever draft for position. It's the quickest path to failure. You always draft for talent.

Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2014, 11:57:00 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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He's talented to reach their level but i don't see why we would take him. We're looking for a sf now so i don't see Ainge taking another guard. Unless we're moving Rondo we gonna take Gordon or Dougie McBuckets. Personally i'll take Napier over these two.

I think if Ainge thinks he can upgrade the wing as a whole, he'd go either way with a 2 or a 3.  I don't think he's hellbent on SF.  The Celtics need help at both positions, IMO.

If he keeps the picks, I wouldn't be shocked to see him go Smart at #6 then address SF at #17.  Seems like they'll be plenty of them there at #17.


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Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2014, 11:58:23 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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He's talented to reach their level but i don't see why we would take him. We're looking for a sf now so i don't see Ainge taking another guard. Unless we're moving Rondo we gonna take Gordon or Dougie McBuckets. Personally i'll take Napier over these two.

We take him if we believe he is the best player at six because you never, ever draft for position. It's the quickest path to failure. You always draft for talent.

At #6, I definitely agree.    I think Ainge can get a little cute with that second first rounder and maybe go for need. 


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Re: Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2014, 12:03:36 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I've said this before but since repeating oneself is part of being a good blog citizen:   

I think Smart is going to be a good pro, and like many here, I love his attitude, but I personally do not like his style of play on offense and do not think it makes any sense to pick him at #6 unless we are trading him or Rondo.

A backcourt with both Rondo and Smart makes no sense from a spacing perspective.  In fact, that sounds like a disaster.

Several posters post hopefully and encouragingly that maybe Smart will fix is absurdly broken jump shot.  And maybe that will happen.   But why does it still look SOOOO awful after TWO college seasons, during which he took a ton of 3PT shots in games (not to mention how many in practice)?

He's taken almost 300 3PT attempts over that span -- 4.6 per game -- and probably thousands in practice, so it is not as if this is some obscure, low usage part of his game that coaches can ignore.

Why hasn't it shown any improvement?   He 'improved' from a gawd-awful 29.0% as a freshman to a still-gawd-awful 29.9% as a sophomore.

I can live without a PG who can shoot 3PT shots.  Seriously, I don't really believe that a PG HAS to be able to make them.    I could care less if Rondo never took another 3PT shot in his NBA career.

But if you can't make them at an efficient rate  WHY THE HECK ARE YOU TAKING THEM?????

Taking lots of low-efficiency shots hurts your team.  It's my biggest peeve in basketball.   "It's a make/miss league." is not just a trite saying.  It is a dead-on truism.   Misses are no different than turnovers 70% of the time.  If you miss a lot, you lose games.

This is one of the reasons why Rondo is such a good player - he may not take a lot of shots, but he takes the shots he's efficient at and that's why his career shooting efficiencies are very good.  He doesn't hurt his team by generating excess misses.

If Smart had that same ugly shooting form and same lousy efficiency at them and only took maybe 1 3PT shot per game, and did everything else in his game exactly the same, I would be extremely high on him.

If I could be confident that he will change his game in the NBA to either (a) actually truly be able to fix his shot mechanics OR (b) become far more discriminating with his own shots (i.e., more "Rondo-like") then I'd be totally on-board with taking Smart at #6.

But I'm not confident of either of those things.

A Rondo/Smart backcourt makes little sense, that's true, but what are your thoughts on having Smart as the third guard in the rotation?

Why would I spend a #6 pick on someone to be a "3rd guard in the rotation"?  Don't I want a guy I hope can be a starter?   If I draft Smart, it's either to play at PG or SG.  If at PG, I've already got Rondo starting.  If at SG, he makes no sense next to Rondo.     For Smart to be used as SG, you want him next to a more 'shoot-first' oriented PG like Curry, who can act as space-creator balance to Smart's bully-to-the-hoop game.

A '3rd guard in the rotation' has to end up paired with each of the other two guards at some point.

It's a common comment in Smart threads that you didn't address.

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