Is Marcus Smart on the level of Westbrook/Rose/Wall?

[jay]

Russell Westbrook 6-2.25 w/o shoes.  6-3.5 with shoes. 6-7.75 wingspan.  36.5 vertical.


John Wall 6-2.75 w/o shoes.  6-4 with shoes.  6-9.25 wingspan.  39" vertical.


Derrick Rose  6-1.5 w/o shoes  6-2.5 with shoes. 6-8 wingspan.  40" vertical.


Marcus Smart  6-2 w/o shoes.  6-3.25 with shoes.  6-9.25 wingspan.  36" vertical. 



Smart weighs 226 pounds.  Rose weighed 197 at the combine.  Westbrook 192.  Wall 196. 

Smart avgd 18 pts and 4.5 assists his sophomore year.  Wall 16.6 pts, 6.5 assists.  Rose 14.9 and 4.7.  Westbrook was 12.7 and 4.3.  Wall and Rose only played one year, while im using Smart and Westbrooks sophomore stats.


Smart is thicker and stronger than the others, and may not be quite as expolsive.  But if he is anywhere close to these guys, shouldnt we take him no matter what?  At the very least, he or Exum should be there.  I guess if Utah took Smart, that would be the only nightmare scenario. 

[Waew]

Smarts 1st step isn't even quick, so I never understood the rose and Westbrook comparisons. More of a slower D Wade.

[CM0]

Russell Westbrook 6-2.25 w/o shoes.  6-3.5 with shoes. 6-7.75 wingspan.  36.5 vertical.


John Wall 6-2.75 w/o shoes.  6-4 with shoes.  6-9.25 wingspan.  39" vertical.


Derrick Rose  6-1.5 w/o shoes  6-2.5 with shoes. 6-8 wingspan.  40" vertical.


Marcus Smart  6-2 w/o shoes.  6-3.25 with shoes.  6-9.25 wingspan.  36" vertical. 



Smart weighs 226 pounds.  Rose weighed 197 at the combine.  Westbrook 192.  Wall 196. 

Smart avgd 18 pts and 4.5 assists his sophomore year.  Wall 16.6 pts, 6.5 assists.  Rose 14.9 and 4.7.  Westbrook was 12.7 and 4.3.  Wall and Rose only played one year, while im using Smart and Westbrooks sophomore stats.


Smart is thicker and stronger than the others, and may not be quite as expolsive.  But if he is anywhere close to these guys, shouldnt we take him no matter what?  At the very least, he or Exum should be there.  I guess if Utah took Smart, that would be the only nightmare scenario.

I would probably take Smart over Exum. Smart's floor is much higher than Exum's and his ceiling is virtually as high. I'd take Smart over anybody at #6 without thinking twice about it. It's not just his measurables and skills that makes him so attractive; it's also his competitiveness, leadership, unselfishness and swagger.

His interviews are the kind of the thing that should have Celtics nation salivating. He says things like "I want to pester opponents so badly on defense that they have nightmares about me on the way into town" and "While other top prospects are afraid of being shown up, I relish playing 1 on 1s in workouts because it gives me a chance to show teams that I can play with anybody."

[Jailan34]

Russell Westbrook 6-2.25 w/o shoes.  6-3.5 with shoes. 6-7.75 wingspan.  36.5 vertical.


John Wall 6-2.75 w/o shoes.  6-4 with shoes.  6-9.25 wingspan.  39" vertical.


Derrick Rose  6-1.5 w/o shoes  6-2.5 with shoes. 6-8 wingspan.  40" vertical.


Marcus Smart  6-2 w/o shoes.  6-3.25 with shoes.  6-9.25 wingspan.  36" vertical. 



Smart weighs 226 pounds.  Rose weighed 197 at the combine.  Westbrook 192.  Wall 196. 

Smart avgd 18 pts and 4.5 assists his sophomore year.  Wall 16.6 pts, 6.5 assists.  Rose 14.9 and 4.7.  Westbrook was 12.7 and 4.3.  Wall and Rose only played one year, while im using Smart and Westbrooks sophomore stats.


Smart is thicker and stronger than the others, and may not be quite as expolsive.  But if he is anywhere close to these guys, shouldnt we take him no matter what?  At the very least, he or Exum should be there.  I guess if Utah took Smart, that would be the only nightmare scenario.

I would probably take Smart over Exum. Smart's floor is much higher than Exum's and his ceiling is virtually as high. I'd take Smart over anybody at #6 without thinking twice about it. It's not just his measurables and skills that makes him so attractive; it's also his competitiveness, leadership, unselfishness and swagger.

His interviews are the kind of the thing that should have Celtics nation salivating. He says things like "I want to pester opponents so badly on defense that they have nightmares about me on the way into town" and "While other top prospects are afraid of being shown up, I relish playing 1 on 1s in workouts because it gives me a chance to show teams that I can play with anybody."

Before having Jeff Green on my team I would've labeled all this as less important than a players athletic gifts. However, after watching that player I just want this team to get some drive back and Smart may never be a clubhouse leader I wouldn't ever have to worry about his effort night in and night out.

[manl_lui]

I wonder how well his weight will translate in the NBA. Smart is nowhere fat, he is a very big and strong pg. I wonder if his bulk will help him bully smaller guards. I hope to think so...

I too am very high on Smarts and hope we get him. I still don't know much about Exum.

[#1P4P]

If he is available at #6, Smart is the player that should be chosen...

Smart isn't as explosive or quick as the players in the comparison (he does have explosiveness and quickness in spades though), but they are overrated attributes for PGs. Wall didn't become the player that he is today until he understood how to change pace. Chris Paul is the best PG in the NBA despite not being top 10 at the position in explosiveness or speed.

Smart's ability to guard 1s, 2s, and potentially 3s at a high level will be the reason he will be a matchup nightmare in the NBA. Tweeners (usually 3/4) are only a problem when they can't defend well at either position (usually too slow for 3s and not strong enough for 4s) and give up more than they get. Using Smart and Rondo in a 2 PG system ala Dragic and Bledsoe (2 players that weren't known for their shooting until Dragic upped his 3P% to 40% this past season).

Of the 3 players mentioned, who had a refined shot coming out of college? My bet is on Smart...

[CM0]

Russell Westbrook 6-2.25 w/o shoes.  6-3.5 with shoes. 6-7.75 wingspan.  36.5 vertical.


John Wall 6-2.75 w/o shoes.  6-4 with shoes.  6-9.25 wingspan.  39" vertical.


Derrick Rose  6-1.5 w/o shoes  6-2.5 with shoes. 6-8 wingspan.  40" vertical.


Marcus Smart  6-2 w/o shoes.  6-3.25 with shoes.  6-9.25 wingspan.  36" vertical. 



Smart weighs 226 pounds.  Rose weighed 197 at the combine.  Westbrook 192.  Wall 196. 

Smart avgd 18 pts and 4.5 assists his sophomore year.  Wall 16.6 pts, 6.5 assists.  Rose 14.9 and 4.7.  Westbrook was 12.7 and 4.3.  Wall and Rose only played one year, while im using Smart and Westbrooks sophomore stats.


Smart is thicker and stronger than the others, and may not be quite as expolsive.  But if he is anywhere close to these guys, shouldnt we take him no matter what?  At the very least, he or Exum should be there.  I guess if Utah took Smart, that would be the only nightmare scenario.

I would probably take Smart over Exum. Smart's floor is much higher than Exum's and his ceiling is virtually as high. I'd take Smart over anybody at #6 without thinking twice about it. It's not just his measurables and skills that makes him so attractive; it's also his competitiveness, leadership, unselfishness and swagger.

His interviews are the kind of the thing that should have Celtics nation salivating. He says things like "I want to pester opponents so badly on defense that they have nightmares about me on the way into town" and "While other top prospects are afraid of being shown up, I relish playing 1 on 1s in workouts because it gives me a chance to show teams that I can play with anybody."

Before having Jeff Green on my team I would've labeled all this as less important than a players athletic gifts. However, after watching that player I just want this team to get some drive back and Smart may never be a clubhouse leader I wouldn't ever have to worry about his effort night in and night out.

I think Smart, Gordon and Saric are in that balls-out, full-tilt full-time category and I'd be happy with any of them (though I think Smart is the best of the bunch).

[CM0]

Smart's ability to guard 1s, 2s, and potentially 3s at a high level will be the reason he will be a matchup nightmare in the NBA. Tweeners (usually 3/4) are only a problem when they can't defend well at either position (usually too slow for 3s and not strong enough for 4s) and give up more than they get.

I agree with you.

[manl_lui]

Smart's ability to guard 1s, 2s, and potentially 3s at a high level will be the reason he will be a matchup nightmare in the NBA. Tweeners (usually 3/4) are only a problem when they can't defend well at either position (usually too slow for 3s and not strong enough for 4s) and give up more than they get.

I agree with you.

at 225, he is heavier than most small forwards which can help him defend against them in the post. But the biggest question is if he is as quick as they are.

[Galeto]

If he is available at #6, Smart is the player that should be chosen...

Smart isn't as explosive or quick as the players in the comparison (he does have explosiveness and quickness in spades though), but they are overrated attributes for PGs. Wall didn't become the player that he is today until he understood how to change pace. Chris Paul is the best PG in the NBA despite not being top 10 at the position in explosiveness or speed.

Smart's ability to guard 1s, 2s, and potentially 3s at a high level will be the reason he will be a matchup nightmare in the NBA. Tweeners (usually 3/4) are only a problem when they can't defend well at either position (usually too slow for 3s and not strong enough for 4s) and give up more than they get. Using Smart and Rondo in a 2 PG system ala Dragic and Bledsoe (2 players that weren't known for their shooting until Dragic upped his 3P% to 40% this past season).

Of the 3 players mentioned, who had a refined shot coming out of college? My bet is on Smart...

If Wall improved at all, it was mostly in his three point shot.  His PER went down by a tiny bit, his true shooting percentage went up by 0.003, his other numbers, good and bad, stayed pretty much the same.  His reputation went up because the team around him got better.

Paul is one of the quickest and fastest players in the league.  He's not a dunker but he has a lot of physical skills at his disposal. 

[jay]

Smarts 1st step isn't even quick, so I never understood the rose and Westbrook comparisons. More of a slower D Wade.

Wade was 6-3.75 w/o shoes.  6-4.75 in shoes.  212 pounds.  So a little taller, but closer in weight.  35" vertical.   6-10.75 wingspan so he has the longest arms of the group. 


My point is if he is just 80 to 90% as good as any of these other guys, shouldnt he be taken 6 overall?  Really he should be taken 4th o 5th, but we want him  to drop.  Gordon, Randle, Vonleh are all intriguing but at the end of the day, they are projects.  Athletic and talented, but projects. 

[Donoghus]

I don't think he's on the level of any of those three but I do think his skill set corresponds well to the NBA and he will be successful.  To me, he's NBA ready and helps fill a Celtics weakness.

If he's sitting there at #6, and we're not moving the pick as part of a trade package, he's my number one option to draft. 

[Galeto]

Smart isn't nearly as explosive as any of these three but overall, I don't think he's as far off, if at all, from these, especially at the same age.  I don't think he's going to be the scorer that Rose is, or dazzle like Westbrook can but none of these three can play the defense that Smart can.  Smart is as good a defensive guard prospect as has come around in a long time.  He's super strong, very long, his lateral quickness is excellent, his hands are very quick and strong and he's committed to playing defense.

Take Smart and Avery Bradley.  Smart's lateral quickness is as good as Bradley but he's also stronger, longer and his hands are much more lethal.  Bradley can put on a good show of ball pressure but because he isn't that good of a ball thief (even though he's good for one outright theft every game), talented ballhandlers handle his pressure and often beat him off the dribble.  Smart can apply the same ball pressure while intimating ballhandlers with losing the ball, which is going to make them more hesitant.  When Wiggins struggled against Smart, that said less about Wiggins' handle or driving ability, since he easily drove by every other defender he faced and more about Smart's exceptional lateral quickness, hands and instincts. The same against Exum. 

Smart stands a very good chance of being an all-nba defender. That's a lot of value right there.  He also provides playmaking and the ability to get into the lane, with a good shooting stroke that portends improved shooting.  Smart could be really good, a high impact two-way player.

[Beat LA]

Smart isn't nearly as explosive as any of these three but overall, I don't think he's as far off, if at all, from these, especially at the same age.  I don't think he's going to be the scorer that Rose is, or dazzle like Westbrook can but none of these three can play the defense that Smart can.  Smart is as good a defensive guard prospect as has come around in a long time.  He's super strong, very long, his lateral quickness is excellent, his hands are very quick and strong and he's committed to playing defense.

Take Smart and Avery Bradley.  Smart's lateral quickness is as good as Bradley but he's also stronger, longer and his hands are much more lethal.  Bradley can put on a good show of ball pressure but because he isn't that good of a ball thief (even though he's good for one outright theft every game), talented ballhandlers handle his pressure and often beat him off the dribble.  Smart can apply the same ball pressure while intimating ballhandlers with losing the ball, which is going to make them more hesitant.  When Wiggins struggled against Smart, that said less about Wiggins' handle or driving ability, since he easily drove by every other defender he faced and more about Smart's exceptional lateral quickness, hands and instincts. The same against Exum. 

Smart stands a very good chance of being an all-nba defender. That's a lot of value right there.  He also provides playmaking and the ability to get into the lane, with a good shooting stroke that portends improved shooting.  Smart could be really good, a high impact two-way player.

By this analysis then, what would we do with Bradley?  I like Avery, but he's injury prone, can't pass or dribble, and only learned how to shoot coming off of a pick and roll presumably last summer.  He often played like there weren't any of his teammates on the court with him by doing nothing, really, but taking too many of his 1 dribble pull ups, which frustrated us all, I'm pretty sure.  To me, Smart is already far superior and younger, with better size and no injury history.  I'd move Bradley in a sign and trade somewhere for a 1st round pick, assuming he's viewed by other teams as being worth such a selection.  He's much better on a contending team, imo, but there are other clubs that need his defense, and the Pistons certainly come to mind, but I'm not sure moving him there would be a great idea, given that he'd still be in the same conference.

Honestly, Smart's size, ability, and demeanor make him sound a little like a young DJ, but I'm sure that I'm wrong about that.  What do you guys think?

[P stoff]

My opinion is of no more value than any other... I'm just shocked at the love for Smart. He is 6'2 and people are talking about him guarding a SF?  Pair him with Bradley, one pick and switch and then it's post up against two 6'2 guards. Smart is not a shooter, so pair him with rondo and watch defenses sag into the paint and go under every pick and roll.

I may be wrong, but the Celtics need guys who can create space and at least keep perimeter defenders honest. Now if we don't get love and are total rebuild, then trade Rondo and gamble on smart...sign Jackson or mills as a FA. Add Hayward to that mix and you have three guys who can attack and shoot and pass.