Is LeBron a quitter????

[wdleehi]

Honest question... what more could LeBron have really done?

In the finals, he averaged 28 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 57%/52%/79%  ...

That's obscenely good.   He was the best player in the series.  His team was outclassed.  Definitely not his fault.

LeBron James career playoff averages - 28 pts, 8.4 rebounds, 6.4 assists and 48% from the field. 

James has had MANY playoff series where he put up better numbers than this Finals.  I remember a series against Orlando when Cleveland wasn't very good and James put up video game type numbers.  Those shooting percentages are crazy but the other numbers are not "obscenely good".

Kevin Durant playoff averages this year - 29.6 points, 8.9 rebounds, 3.9 assists on 46% from the field.  Does anyone think Durant had an "obscenely good" run in the playoffs this year?

Mike

And against the Spurs?

25.4, 7.4, 2.8 and shooting 46%

Still awesome, but takes a hit because of the good Spurs defense.

[D.o.s.]

Interesting read:

Here's how bad it was: Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh combined to post a game score of 18.5 (7.9 and 10.6, respectively). In 2007, when LeBron and the Cavs were swept by the Spurs, Drew Gooden and Boobie Gibson combined for 17.5. This is not flattering company, obviously. If you expand to the teams' top seven non-LeBron rotational players, the '07 Cavs actually pull ahead, with a combined Game Score of 42.2 to the '14 Heat's 36.2. (The average cumulative game score average for the numbers 2 through 8 players in a Finals is 47, because generally, teams in the Finals are good. The Spurs 2 through 8 combined for 66.) Which is to say, LeBron had more help in the Finals in 2007 than he did this year.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/the-2014-heat-were-worse-in-the-finals-than-lebrons-200-1591454897

[Celtics4ever]

That does not bode well for him staying.

[Celtics4ever]

  I thought the officiating was noticeably better this year.  Maybe it's because Stern is gone.

let's hope so.

[nickagneta]

So what exactly do all these stats have to do with quitting? You can be playing the best game of your life but if your team is behind and you stop competing because you feel you are going to lose, then you are a quitter. What you did before quitting is irrelevant. What your team mates did before you quit is irrelevant. What is germaine to the discussion is whether you decided to stop competing because you were losing when there was still game to be played. That is the only relevant matter here.

[MBunge]

Honest question... what more could LeBron have really done?

In the finals, he averaged 28 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 57%/52%/79%  ...

That's obscenely good.   He was the best player in the series.  His team was outclassed.  Definitely not his fault.

LeBron James career playoff averages - 28 pts, 8.4 rebounds, 6.4 assists and 48% from the field. 

James has had MANY playoff series where he put up better numbers than this Finals.  I remember a series against Orlando when Cleveland wasn't very good and James put up video game type numbers.  Those shooting percentages are crazy but the other numbers are not "obscenely good".

Kevin Durant playoff averages this year - 29.6 points, 8.9 rebounds, 3.9 assists on 46% from the field.  Does anyone think Durant had an "obscenely good" run in the playoffs this year?

Mike

And against the Spurs?

25.4, 7.4, 2.8 and shooting 46%

Still awesome, but takes a hit because of the good Spurs defense.

Yet, even though he won the MVP this season, is Durant considered to be as good as James?

Look, the Spurs were so incredible that James probably could have put in an all-time playoff series performance and the Heat still would have lost in 6 games.  But I watched this series.  LeBron had one great game and one great quarter in 2 other games.  That's it.

Or to put it another way, the Heat may have let him down but that doesn't mean LeBron did all he could.

Mike

[TitleMaster]

I think it's a conceded loss.

Think about it, the Heat's down 3-1. Now, even if LeBron pops a caffeine pill or speed or some other illegal stimulant and tries to force it to a 1 or 2 point game, he'd have to do it all over again, for game 6. And then again, for game 7. That's basically carrying a team, for three straight wins, when your opponent is vastly superior.

Thus, I believe that he decided that 5 games was enough. If this were a game 6, I think he would have stuck around, knowing that a 7th game could go either way.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I don't care whether he quit or not but I am tired of seeing people post his stat line from that game... he did most of that in the first quarter, other than that his play was pretty blegh from there. Just taking stats from a game instead of watching it to see if the stats tell it all. When Spurs made their run second quarter, LeBron wasn't LeBron anymore. We do need to give Spurs their dues though, Leonard put the clamps on LeBron after that hot start.... like I said b4,  that has happened many times but the difference was his teammates didn't CARRY him home. It's just like when he had that 45 against us, he had most of it in the first half, we stayed right in that game, if not for other guys besides LeBron we would have prevailed. I just don't think LeBron really steps up during crunch time, except a rare occasion. Maybe he doesn't know how to preserve something for when the game really gets tight, he busts way too early.

[Rodan45]

I think it's something psychological that drives some people in to fits of rage about LeBron.

Is the talk about his legacy ridiculous when he might only be 60% into his career? Yes. Does the media ride his    in the hopes he's a huge money maker like Jordan was? Yes.

But just like with Tebow he cannot control what the media does, but the people that hate him for this can control what they see of him by changing the channel.

NO one was going to beat the Spurs this series, they just shot as close to "lights out" as has ever been seen, yet there are people trying to dish out blame on LeBron as if he is the only person on the team.

The perfect example of this are the fans in Cleveland who fervently hate him but would hop right back on his       if he decided to play for them again.

[Celtics4ever]

A lot of this should be on Spoelstra.   He did not ask him to go back in and showed how spineless he is as a coach and that it was really LeBron's team the whole time.

[ScoobyDoo]

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding - "cman88" hits it on the head. He's a front runner, as is Wade. My definiton of that is they're all tough and stacked with bravado when they're sticking ti to you but crumble easy when they're put in a vice grip.

House of Cards. When the going gets tough and things aren't going there way, they quit, start whining and quitting - they taunt you when they sticking it to you - and whine when they're losing.

Can't stand the whole Miami persona. And Chalmers - a cheap shot, dirty player. I like Haslem on that team but that's about it.

 

[knuckleballer]

Two years in a row at the all star game, Kobe demanded to take Lebron one on one towards the end of the game.  Kobe was basically saying to Lebron, that if he wants to take the title of basketball's best player, Lebron had to take it from him right then and there.  Kobe was excited and full of energy, he was trash talking, and giving Lebron everything he had.  Both years, Kobe dominated while Lebron wanted no part of it.  Kobe thrived while Lebron wanted the game to be over. 

I know it's silly to point to an all star game to analyze players' character.  But I think these are good examples to point out the difference between great, super competitive players like Kobe and Lebron who seems to lack a little bit of heart.  It would have been incredibly hard for Lebron to fight through exhaustion and will his team to victory yesterday while down 17 with six minutes to go, but he didn't even try.  Remember Jordan's flu game?  He played 44 minutes scoring 38 minutes and pulled out a close victory while looking like he going to pass out.  Lebron sat on the bench for the last six minutes of the game because he was tired and mentally beaten. 

[Mazingerz]

Lebron does not have the balls to take on a psychologically taxing game. When the stacks are not against his favor (maybe he knew that the refs no longer will blow their whistle in his favor) his balls shrivel.

[Surferdad]

Two years in a row at the all star game, Kobe demanded to take Lebron one on one towards the end of the game.  Kobe was basically saying to Lebron, that if he wants to take the title of basketball's best player, Lebron had to take it from him right then and there.  Kobe was excited and full of energy, he was trash talking, and giving Lebron everything he had.  Both years, Kobe dominated while Lebron wanted no part of it.  Kobe thrived while Lebron wanted the game to be over. 

I know it's silly to point to an all star game to analyze players' character.  But I think these are good examples to point out the difference between great, super competitive players like Kobe and Lebron who seems to lack a little bit of heart.  It would have been incredibly hard for Lebron to fight through exhaustion and will his team to victory yesterday while down 17 with six minutes to go, but he didn't even try.  Remember Jordan's flu game?  He played 44 minutes scoring 38 minutes and pulled out a close victory while looking like he going to pass out.  Lebron sat on the bench for the last six minutes of the game because he was tired and mentally beaten.

Right on Jordan playing though the injury.  Same for Kobe, he's had huge games playing hurt.

[D.o.s.]

here's a fun bit from Grantland:

When it gets complicated is when both sides feed off each other. When the rational people from the first group feel the need to frame all of their arguments as a response to the crazy people in the second group, and the haters in the second group use it all as proof that LeBron?s the most overhyped athlete of his generation.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/love-and-hate-in-the-lebron-era/