Is LeBron a quitter????

[RyNye]

2008 Finals, Boston vs. Lakers: In one game the Lakers nearly came back from a 20+-point deficit in the last 8 minutes, and in another game the Cs did come back from a 24-point (I think) deficit in the last 8 minutes.

You got that half right.

In game 2, the Celtics were up 24 points with 8 minutes to go in the 4th quarter. They went on a 31-9 run to close it to 2 with 38.4 seconds left. Paul Pierce and James Posey (man, I miss James Posey!) clinched the game with free throws. If Kobe Bryant and Sasa Vujacic can lead an almost 4th quarter comeback, can't Lebron and whoever?

Meanwhile, in game 4 the Celtics trailed by 24 points in the 3rd quarter. However, they went on a 21-3 run to end the quarter, so by the beginning of the 4th they only trailed by 2. Eddie House (man, I miss Eddie House!) sealed the game. So, it wasn't in the last 8 minutes. But still, they came back from 24 down to win.

In game 5 the Celtics were down 14 in the 4th quarter, and went on a 16-2 run to tie it, but lost the game. Then game 6 Rondo had his amazing 21 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 6 steals game and we won by 39.

In short, bigger comebacks have happened.

[GreenWarrior]

I wouldn't go so far as to call him a quitter but when given major uphill battles to fight, he does turtle up some and decide not to fight the good fight to over come the odds.

He did it last night. He did it against Dallas in 2011. He did it in 2010 against the Celtics.

He's a fabulous front running competitor, maybe one of the best. But when it comes to comebacks and overcoming difficult odds to prevail, he has a history of just not trying as hard, not playing as hard and not seeming to care, as if the loss is inevitable.

I also seriously question his leadership skills. It tends to be more along the lines of "Watch me and do what I do" or "Give me the ball and I will lead you there." and then he tends to go all iso and take all the shots and be the guy with a usage rate somewhere around 40% or higher. Rather than getting everyone involved his leadership is let me do everything instead of properly utilizing the players around them to make the team as a whole better. His leadership abilities tend to be all about the individual, him.

Lebron has never come close to a usage rate around 40%.  His playoff career average is 31.4 (regular season is 31.6).  In Miami his high is 33.4 (the first title season).  The second title season he was below 30 at 29.2 and this year was at 31.6.  The three highest USG% in the playoffs for Lebron were all in Cleveland when his teammates were obviously much worse on the whole.

As for this series though, Lebron had something like 48 assist worthy passes, only something like 20 were actually converted into assists.  One of the lowest rates you will ever see from someone with nearly 10 assist worthy passes a game.  His teammates totally and utterly failed him. 

The bottom-line is, you can't expect someone to bring the ball up the floor, generate the entire offense, guard the opposing teams best wing (or PF), play 40+ minutes a night, 100 games a year, and then provide him no real support when he needs it most.

i'm not denying his teammates could and should have played better. you could say the team was/is poorly constructed. they don't have a legit center or pg. but we were lead to believe wade, bosh, & bron were enough.

[Neurotic Guy]

Great player.  Not a quitter.  Handled himself well afterward. 

[Al91]

Quitter.

And I like/respect LeBron but I haven't seen a worst performance by him in years...performance and body-language wise. I really hope his performance in these finals was due to an injury because averaging less than 30PPG as the best player in the world when the rest of your team is gassed is unbelievable.

For the first time I became one of those people talking to the TV saying, "Jordan wouldn't go out like this". Why was LeBron sitting for the first six minutes of the fourth quarter in Game 4? Hello Coach, LeBron, the game is still winnable. Honestly, if you don't have the energy to play 45-48 minutes in the finals oer game, then you don't deserve being the best player in the world anymore.

[Celtics4ever]

They were what within 17 points with 6 minutes left,  I think they could have come back from that but not likely last night.   If they really dug in on D and hit some threes it was possible but not probable.  They certainly didn't look mentally capable as  team to do it and I got no sense that they believed they could at that point.   When LeBron went out they rolled up and died.

[doinky]

Really?



All this proves is once again, Lebron can not beat the Spurs by himself. 

He couldn't in Cleveland when the talent was low around him.



And now he can't in Miami when Wade and Bosh played like bench players pushed into service because of injuries.  Could those two have come up any smaller? 



28.2, 7.8. 4.0 while shooting .571 form the field and .529 from the long distance.



But he is the problem.  He is the one that quit.

TP

LeBron can't be expected to run their offense, be their number one scorer, be their best defender, and also provide the hustle/energy/spark for the team when they're down.

i agree, i think thats too much to expect from lebron. and thats another reason why he can't be called one of the greatest. the great ones do all that, yes.

and how many points he scored have nothing to do with whether or not he quit at the end. i see these threads about lebron vs. bird. larry bird would have demanded to be back on the court in an elimination game in the finals.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I wouldn't go so far as to call him a quitter but when given major uphill battles to fight, he does turtle up some and decide not to fight the good fight to over come the odds.

He did it last night. He did it against Dallas in 2011. He did it in 2010 against the Celtics.

He's a fabulous front running competitor, maybe one of the best. But when it comes to comebacks and overcoming difficult odds to prevail, he has a history of just not trying as hard, not playing as hard and not seeming to care, as if the loss is inevitable.

I also seriously question his leadership skills. It tends to be more along the lines of "Watch me and do what I do" or "Give me the ball and I will lead you there." and then he tends to go all iso and take all the shots and be the guy with a usage rate somewhere around 40% or higher. Rather than getting everyone involved his leadership is let me do everything instead of properly utilizing the players around them to make the team as a whole better. His leadership abilities tend to be all about the individual, him.

Lebron has never come close to a usage rate around 40%.  His playoff career average is 31.4 (regular season is 31.6).  In Miami his high is 33.4 (the first title season).  The second title season he was below 30 at 29.2 and this year was at 31.6.  The three highest USG% in the playoffs for Lebron were all in Cleveland when his teammates were obviously much worse on the whole.

As for this series though, Lebron had something like 48 assist worthy passes, only something like 20 were actually converted into assists.  One of the lowest rates you will ever see from someone with nearly 10 assist worthy passes a game.  His teammates totally and utterly failed him. 

The bottom-line is, you can't expect someone to bring the ball up the floor, generate the entire offense, guard the opposing teams best wing (or PF), play 40+ minutes a night, 100 games a year, and then provide him no real support when he needs it most.

Maybe that's an unreal expectation, but that's basically how the league and LeBron's own camp set things up: he's the messiah, the king, the chosen one?says so right on his back in tattoo ink. He was anointed "The Greatest of all Time" before he ever set foot on an NBA court, and the media went along with it.

Perhaps most importantly, James didn't really do anything to lower people's lofty expectations. Then, "The Decision" and the following laser-and-smoke show and the "not two, not three, not four ..." proclamation only highlighted LeBron & Co.'s sense of entitlement. How is that team, led by that guy, not a victim of its own hype?

[moiso]

He definitely doesn't have the stamina of guys like Jordan and Kobe.  He seemed to use 3/4 of his gas in the first 6 minutes of the game.

I would agree that when he thinks that he doesn't have a chance to win the game, he goes through the motions... I guess you could classify that as a quitter.  Some of the other greats would not do that.

also, this is why I question his passion. I absolutely believe he has the passion, want and need to be known and remembered as a champion and one of the all time greats. I just don't think he has the passion to put the work in. he wants it to be easy and basically handed to him.

It seems like he puts in a lot of work in the offseason.  Just look at how much his shooting has improved.  But he's definitely not a psychopath about winning like Jordan and Bird. 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

2008 Finals, Boston vs. Lakers: In one game the Lakers nearly came back from a 20+-point deficit in the last 8 minutes, and in another game the Cs did come back from a 24-point (I think) deficit in the last 8 minutes.

You got that half right.

In game 2, the Celtics were up 24 points with 8 minutes to go in the 4th quarter. They went on a 31-9 run to close it to 2 with 38.4 seconds left. Paul Pierce and James Posey (man, I miss James Posey!) clinched the game with free throws. If Kobe Bryant and Sasa Vujacic can lead an almost 4th quarter comeback, can't Lebron and whoever?

Meanwhile, in game 4 the Celtics trailed by 24 points in the 3rd quarter. However, they went on a 21-3 run to end the quarter, so by the beginning of the 4th they only trailed by 2. Eddie House (man, I miss Eddie House!) sealed the game. So, it wasn't in the last 8 minutes. But still, they came back from 24 down to win.

In game 5 the Celtics were down 14 in the 4th quarter, and went on a 16-2 run to tie it, but lost the game. Then game 6 Rondo had his amazing 21 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 6 steals game and we won by 39.

In short, bigger comebacks have happened.

I'll take being half right!  Thanks for the correction.

[moiso]

I wouldn't go so far as to call him a quitter but when given major uphill battles to fight, he does turtle up some and decide not to fight the good fight to over come the odds.

He did it last night. He did it against Dallas in 2011. He did it in 2010 against the Celtics.

He's a fabulous front running competitor, maybe one of the best. But when it comes to comebacks and overcoming difficult odds to prevail, he has a history of just not trying as hard, not playing as hard and not seeming to care, as if the loss is inevitable.

I also seriously question his leadership skills. It tends to be more along the lines of "Watch me and do what I do" or "Give me the ball and I will lead you there." and then he tends to go all iso and take all the shots and be the guy with a usage rate somewhere around 40% or higher. Rather than getting everyone involved his leadership is let me do everything instead of properly utilizing the players around them to make the team as a whole better. His leadership abilities tend to be all about the individual, him.

Absolutely agree.  Lebron said that because they were behind in the series, obviously he wasn't doing enough and needed to do more.  He told his teammates "Follow my lead" and then went out and took all the shots and dominated on both ends for all of six minutes.  It might be the opposite- maybe he should be doing less.

Look at the Spurs.  Leonard was a borderline role player in the regular season and ended up as the MVP because the coach and the main players all encouraged him to do more.  I can't really see Lebron allowing anyone other than Wade to take over the game when they get hot.  He really thinks he has to singlehandedly win games all by himself nowadays.

[C-Green]

I was shocked he didn't come back into the game. I am not saying LeBron didn't carry the team (he did) and agree that the team around him did not perform. I don't think anyone can question his talent and his ability but I do question his heart. Can you imagine Bird, Magic, Jordan, Russel, Kobe etc sitting out the last 6.5 minutes of an elimination game?! Yes, it was highly unlikely that they would have come back even with him on the floor but it speaks volumes about his heart and desire. He is the leader of the team, he should have showed his team how to play with pride even though in a loss, imo.

[GreenWarrior]

I was shocked he didn't come back into the game. I am not saying LeBron didn't carry the team (he did) and agree that the team around him did not perform. I don't think anyone can question his talent and his ability but I do question his heart. Can you imagine Bird, Magic, Jordan, Russel, Kobe etc sitting out the last 6.5 minutes of an elimination game?! Yes, it was highly unlikely that they would have come back even with him on the floor but it speaks volumes about his heart and desire. He is the leader of the team, he should have showed his team how to play with pride even though in a loss, imo.

i'm shocked he came out at all.

[doinky]

They were what within 17 points with 6 minutes left,  I think they could have come back from that but not likely last night.   If they really dug in on D and hit some threes it was possible but not probable.  They certainly didn't look mentally capable as  team to do it and I got no sense that they believed they could at that point.   When LeBron went out they rolled up and died.

exactly. not even wanting to come back in the game says so much. the rest of the team certainly gave up when the king decided he was done. follow me, he said. and how could such a great talent not go out swinging? how could any team, ever, not go out swinging?

i remember kg and pp's last game against the knicks. that 20-0 run they made showed some character. that's how you finish a game, win or lose. never quit.

[MBunge]

Really?



All this proves is once again, Lebron can not beat the Spurs by himself. 

He couldn't in Cleveland when the talent was low around him.



And now he can't in Miami when Wade and Bosh played like bench players pushed into service because of injuries.  Could those two have come up any smaller? 



28.2, 7.8. 4.0 while shooting .571 form the field and .529 from the long distance.



But he is the problem.  He is the one that quit.

Jordan AVERAGED 33.4, 6.4, 5.7 while shooting 48% for his career in the playoffs.

LeBron wasn't at all the reason Miami lost but did he perform like the best player in the game?  Did he play like the best of all time?  Absolutely not.

And I'm going to keep repeating this until everybody gets it.

THIS is the team LeBron chose.  THESE are the teammates he wanted.  THIS is the situation he wanted.  He left Cleveland because they weren't good enough for him and THIS is where he went because he thought it would be easy to win.  That he was wrong about that does not get to be an excuse for him falling short.

Mike

[Moranis]

They were what within 17 points with 6 minutes left,  I think they could have come back from that but not likely last night.   If they really dug in on D and hit some threes it was possible but not probable.  They certainly didn't look mentally capable as  team to do it and I got no sense that they believed they could at that point.   When LeBron went out they rolled up and died.

They were, but they were done.  Miami was up 22-6, 7 minutes into the game.  It was 98-65 the rest of the game. 

I also think Lebron was just coming out for a breather at 6:30 with the Heat down 18.  At that point he had basically only missed a few seconds of the game, was tired, and a needed a quick rest.  I fully believe he was going to come back in, but then Wade misses two free throws and Bosh misses a layup and at 5 and a half minutes to go Miami is down 20.  I mean if Wade and Bosh can't even manage to hit freebies, how exactly was Miami going to come back?