Author Topic: Aaron gordon  (Read 14417 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2014, 12:51:29 AM »

Offline footey

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15965
  • Tommy Points: 1833
Shawn Marion does not come to mind when I see Gordon play.  No knock on Marion, but their styles don't look very similar.   

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2014, 08:39:49 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17837
  • Tommy Points: 2661
  • bammokja
I like him, but not at #6. It seems like the ceiling is Shawn Marion, who was a unique and very good player, but #6 in a loaded draft for a guy with a small chance of being Marion? About 5 spots too high IMO.

It seems to me like once a comp or a label gets stuck on someone, it gets way too hard not to keep seeing it. Wouldn't it change the conversation if we all thought of him as a taller Kawhi Leonard with a better three point shot?
I understand your point, but no. Given Gordon's sad shooting percentages and limited offensive game, the conversation about picking him at #6 would not fundamentally shift here.

As articulated by colincb, the best projection for Gordon on offense is mediocrity, the best. At 6, the celtics need a better player than Gordon.

I am still in the smart/volenh camp at the moment.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2014, 08:50:39 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3558
  • Tommy Points: 182
First I don't see Danny taking this kid, he likes shooters and Gordon is far from that.

I will admit we need more athleticism at the 4/5, maybe if he puts on some weight he can play some 4, right now he will get crushed!

Defenders are great, but this team needs a shooter and a scorer desperately, and Gordon will never be either. You take centers at the top of the draft that can't score but they can defend, not 6'7" guys. ::)

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2014, 09:17:10 AM »

Offline DraftSmart33

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 322
  • Tommy Points: 26
I like him, but not at #6. It seems like the ceiling is Shawn Marion, who was a unique and very good player, but #6 in a loaded draft for a guy with a small chance of being Marion? About 5 spots too high IMO.

It seems to me like once a comp or a label gets stuck on someone, it gets way too hard not to keep seeing it. Wouldn't it change the conversation if we all thought of him as a taller Kawhi Leonard with a better three point shot?
I understand your point, but no. Given Gordon's sad shooting percentages and limited offensive game, the conversation about picking him at #6 would not fundamentally shift here.

As articulated by colincb, the best projection for Gordon on offense is mediocrity, the best. At 6, the celtics need a better player than Gordon.

I am still in the smart/volenh camp at the moment.

I think aside from his very poor free throw shooting I believe his REAL numbers are much better than most think.  Here are the stats so our discussion can be more accurate.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/arizona/aaron-gordon

His Offensive Rating of 105.4 is far from bad and his Effective Shooting Percentage of 51.5 is very good (in fact better than Smart and Randle...Vonleh is a 56%).

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2014, 11:05:01 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31869
  • Tommy Points: 10047
he's growing on me the more I see him making the commitment to improve his shooting.  if he can be 70% at the line eventually and be a solid shooter from 18 feet he'd be fine at #6 especially considering he seems gifted on D to cover 4 spots.  I could see him stepping in after Green's contract is up.

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2014, 11:10:33 AM »

Offline NorthernLightning

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 759
  • Tommy Points: 69
  • zap
You people putting a definitive cap on Aaron Gordon's offense are extremely shortsighted and lacking imagination.

He was barely 18 when his season started, and he played with remarkable composure and iq for a freshman. He shot 35+ from 3 as a freshman and his fg% was good.

He had a different, funky shooting form on his free throws, that he has fixed if you read Kevin O'Conners article about it.

He has supreme athleticism, good handles, and is a good passer. He has the entire foundation to be an above average everything, including scorer.

You lose all credibility when you declare definitively that he will never be more than a mediocre scorer, just because you nitpicked his shooting %s from different spots on the floor when he was barely 18.

Step up your game.

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2014, 02:52:54 PM »

Offline Nef-Oracle

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 283
  • Tommy Points: 5
He'll be better than Blake Griffin in my opinion. He's more athletic & smarter than him. He is still underrated now but he'll surely climb high in this draft cause he's improving his shoot. Utah, Sac, Philly & lal loves him. Hopefully we get him.

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2014, 08:24:00 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3558
  • Tommy Points: 182
He'll be better than Blake Griffin in my opinion. He's more athletic & smarter than him. He is still underrated now but he'll surely climb high in this draft cause he's improving his shoot. Utah, Sac, Philly & lal loves him. Hopefully we get him.

ROF****

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2014, 08:31:09 AM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7640
  • Tommy Points: 441
He'll be better than Blake Griffin in my opinion. He's more athletic & smarter than him. He is still underrated now but he'll surely climb high in this draft cause he's improving his shoot. Utah, Sac, Philly & lal loves him. Hopefully we get him.
When I watched Griffin in college I saw the next great power forward on a Karl Malone type level.  When you watch Gordon you see Shawn Marion as a best case scenario.  Huge, huge difference.

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2014, 08:39:35 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17837
  • Tommy Points: 2661
  • bammokja
I like him, but not at #6. It seems like the ceiling is Shawn Marion, who was a unique and very good player, but #6 in a loaded draft for a guy with a small chance of being Marion? About 5 spots too high IMO.

It seems to me like once a comp or a label gets stuck on someone, it gets way too hard not to keep seeing it. Wouldn't it change the conversation if we all thought of him as a taller Kawhi Leonard with a better three point shot?
I understand your point, but no. Given Gordon's sad shooting percentages and limited offensive game, the conversation about picking him at #6 would not fundamentally shift here.

As articulated by colincb, the best projection for Gordon on offense is mediocrity, the best. At 6, the celtics need a better player than Gordon.

I am still in the smart/volenh camp at the moment.

I think aside from his very poor free throw shooting I believe his REAL numbers are much better than most think.  Here are the stats so our discussion can be more accurate.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/arizona/aaron-gordon

His Offensive Rating of 105.4 is far from bad and his Effective Shooting Percentage of 51.5 is very good (in fact better than Smart and Randle...Vonleh is a 56%).
Thanks for the stats, they are helpful. But another stat that worries me is that the majority of Gordon's baskets come on fast breaks and near the basket. That means that his jump shooting is particularly poor (some where around 29%, but my memory may be failing me here).

I like Gordon, but think other options in the draft would help the celtics more.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2014, 08:46:00 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
U see stevenson struggling to deal with lebrons explosiveness tonight?

Gordon will do a much better job shadowing him. One of the best defenders from this draft

Stephenson is 6'6" and lebron is 6'8".  The struggles are no surprise.

Jeff Green has played Lebron extremely well in past meetings.  IMHO Gordon's skillset is redundant in Boston.

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2014, 09:03:18 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
I wouldn't get my hopes up....DA doesn't tend to keep these picks.

If he does Gordon is one of the best choices left to choose from

I trust Gordon to be better than Exum

I would be very, very, very surprised if that is true.

Gordon really doesn't have any attributes that Exum doesn't have.  Both are excellent defenders, both are very young, both are exceptional athletes, both have high IQ, both have good passing and ball handling skills for their position, both are good rebounders for their position.  On the down side both have weak jump shots, both are sub-par free throw shooters (though Gordon is far worse), both have a major need to add muscle.

The difference is that Exum has far greater physical advantage at his positions (his size is either elite at PG, or excellent at SG).   Gordon's size can be an advantage at SF, but could be a major liability at PF.  Exum's position isn't as depending on strength, so his lack of bulk isn't as much an issue as it is for Gordon (who would get slaughtered by stronger NBA PF's). 

Also Exum is also a far superior scorer.  He can be dominant attacking the basket, he's at least CAPABLE from the foul line (around 64%) and he is a very good post scorer which (combined with his size) will make him very hard for opposing NBA guards to defend.  Gordon has a far more limited offensive game and depends mostly on his athleticism to get points - he's really not a very skilled scorer at all.

The difference to me is that Exum has a LOT more offensive upside and IMHO has the potential to be an 18/5/7 player in the NBA, wheras I think Gordon's celing is around 14/8/3.  I really think Gordon will be a MKG / Tayshaun Prince / Nicholas Batum / Gerald Wallace type player, while Exum will be more of a Penny Hardaway / Michael Carter-Williams / Derek Rose / Russel Westbrook type.     

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2014, 09:07:44 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
Exum will be gone by the time we pick. 


Quote
Also Exum is also a far superior scorer.  He can be dominant attacking the basket, he's at least CAPABLE from the foul line (around 64%) and he is a very good post scorer which (combined with his size) will make him very hard for opposing NBA guards to defend.  Gordon has a far more limited offensive game and depends mostly on his athleticism to get points - he's really not a very skilled scorer at all.

I think to be fair, Gordon faced better competition than Exum did though.  Am I alone in thinking the NCAA is better than FIBA?   

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2014, 09:10:27 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
I like him, but not at #6. It seems like the ceiling is Shawn Marion, who was a unique and very good player, but #6 in a loaded draft for a guy with a small chance of being Marion? About 5 spots too high IMO.

It seems to me like once a comp or a label gets stuck on someone, it gets way too hard not to keep seeing it. Wouldn't it change the conversation if we all thought of him as a taller Kawhi Leonard with a better three point shot?

No, because Leonard has shot 38% from three since his rookie year (which Gordon will not), and even still Leonard has not broken out to be anything more than a good starter.  His per 36 numbers over his first 3 seasons (12/7/2) are right about what I expect Gordon will be at, and are solid but hardly All-Star material.

Saying Gordon will become like Leonard doesn't change the Conversation for me, because I believe that Smart and Vonleh are both more likely to be All-Stars than Leonard.  I Think Smart can be a 20 pt /5 reb / 5 ast guy and I think Vonleh can be an 20 pt / 11 reb / 1.5 blk guy, and both of those numbers far eclipse the 14/7/2 that I see Gordon putting up.
 

Re: Aaron gordon
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2014, 09:16:29 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
Exum will be gone by the time we pick. 


Quote
Also Exum is also a far superior scorer.  He can be dominant attacking the basket, he's at least CAPABLE from the foul line (around 64%) and he is a very good post scorer which (combined with his size) will make him very hard for opposing NBA guards to defend.  Gordon has a far more limited offensive game and depends mostly on his athleticism to get points - he's really not a very skilled scorer at all.

I think to be fair, Gordon faced better competition than Exum did though.  Am I alone in thinking the NCAA is better than FIBA?

Did Exum not dominate against the US team at the 2013 Hoops summit?

Exum's stats:
16 points (6/8 shooting)
3 rebounds
2 assists
2 steals
1 blk
2 fouls
1 turnover
22 minutes.

Gordon's stats: 
9 points (3/5 shooting)
1 rebounds
1 assists
0 steals
0 blk
4 fouls
2 turnover
24 minutes.