Love wants out by July 1st

[Lucky17]

Look how much better Toronto got after trading Gay to Sac for a bunch of role players. Minny can be a better team post-Love as well, as Pekovic was way under-utilized while Love was getting his.

But also, look how much getter Gay got playing with a legit low-post threat like Cousins and a creator like Isaiah Thomas.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-rudy-gay-principle/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1938134-the-real-reasons-behind-rudy-gays-revival-with-sacramento-kings

Context matters.

Did Gay get better or was he just shooting better for that part of the year?

From the Goldsberry article (Jan 2014):

Gay?s overall field goal percentage has shot up from 39 percent in Toronto to 53 percent in Sacramento. He is basically shooting from the same spots, but less frequently. In Toronto he averaged 19 shots per 36 minutes; in Sacramento that?s down to 15, and his attempts are going in more frequently, especially in the midrange and close to the basket.

As of Monday, Gay had made exactly 50 percent of his 92 midrange attempts in Sacramento. Those are Dirk Nowitzki numbers. Back in Toronto he made only 35 percent in that zone. But the biggest development has been close to the basket, where he?s been ferocious. As a Raptor, Gay made only 43 percent of his shots inside of eight feet. Those are Ricky Rubio numbers. As a King, that number has boomed to 65 percent.

Gay's overall numbers for the entire year were about the same as most every other year he has had.

His numbers for his time in Sacto: career high or near career highs in scoring average, shooting percentages, FT makes and attempts, but fewer minutes and FG attempts than in all but his rookie year.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3005/rudy-gay

[NorthernLightning]

And yet Sacramento didn't actually get better. Which was the point.

[Evantime34]

I am pretending we don't have a shot at Love so I won't be upset when we don't get him. I hope we can pull it out for 3 firsts and not four but even with four you have to do the deal. Love is already an elite player in the NBA and could get even better considering he is only 25. A player like that attracts other elite players and makes your franchise relevant.

The question is, if we can't get Love what do we do? Do we try to bring in another player to improve the team now? Or do we sit back collect assets and wait until the next opportunity becomes available? If we just sit back and slow develop will Rondo decide he wants out? What would  you do?

[Lucky17]

And yet Sacramento didn't actually get better. Which was the point.

Actually, they did slightly improve, in-season. 6-14 record before the trade, 22-40 after.

The immediate results of the trade showed promise: a 7-8 record, including the longest winning streak of the season, and an offensive clip of 9th best in the league.

http://stats.nba.com/featured/everybody_wins_2014_01_14.html

It should be noted that Sacramento finished 3-9 in their last 12 games; Cleveland had the rights to their 1st rounder if the Kings had finished outside the top 12 picks.

[nickagneta]

Look how much better Toronto got after trading Gay to Sac for a bunch of role players. Minny can be a better team post-Love as well, as Pekovic was way under-utilized while Love was getting his.

But also, look how much getter Gay got playing with a legit low-post threat like Cousins and a creator like Isaiah Thomas.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-rudy-gay-principle/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1938134-the-real-reasons-behind-rudy-gays-revival-with-sacramento-kings

Context matters.

Did Gay get better or was he just shooting better for that part of the year?

From the Goldsberry article (Jan 2014):

Gay?s overall field goal percentage has shot up from 39 percent in Toronto to 53 percent in Sacramento. He is basically shooting from the same spots, but less frequently. In Toronto he averaged 19 shots per 36 minutes; in Sacramento that?s down to 15, and his attempts are going in more frequently, especially in the midrange and close to the basket.

As of Monday, Gay had made exactly 50 percent of his 92 midrange attempts in Sacramento. Those are Dirk Nowitzki numbers. Back in Toronto he made only 35 percent in that zone. But the biggest development has been close to the basket, where he?s been ferocious. As a Raptor, Gay made only 43 percent of his shots inside of eight feet. Those are Ricky Rubio numbers. As a King, that number has boomed to 65 percent.

Gay's overall numbers for the entire year were about the same as most every other year he has had.

His numbers for his time in Sacto: career high or near career highs in scoring average, shooting percentages, FT makes and attempts, but fewer minutes and FG attempts than in all but his rookie year.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3005/rudy-gay

I think you are missing two important points.

One, Gay shooting better than he did in Toronto(I say shooting because I don't think his overall game got better so much as he shot better), didn't make the Kings any better.

Two, Gay's overall numbers for the whole year were really no different so maybe he has volatility in his shooting and so, only was hot for his time in Sacramento and next year he will revert back to his normal career averages which he still had as an overall year in total this year anyway.

I checked his splits. His FG% was fairly consistent over the years from month to month, but he did have extreme volatility in his three point shooting so the idea that he was just cold in Toronto and hot in Sactown isn't very far fetched.

[Lucky17]

I think you are missing two important points.

One, Gay shooting better than he did in Toronto(I say shooting because I don't think his overall game got better so much as he shot better), didn't make the Kings any better.

I can't prove that Gay was directly responsible, but I've already shown that the Kings won at a slightly better clip and improved offensively after the trade.

Two, Gay's overall numbers for the whole year were really no different so maybe he has volatility in his shooting and so, only was hot for his time in Sacramento and next year he will revert back to his normal career averages which he still had as an overall year in total this year anyway.

I guess we'll just agree that your glass of water is half-empty? I know Gay is precisely the type of player you dislike.

Maybe we should revisit this topic next season to see how Gay is doing?

[Kane3387]

If we get love then I'll be shocked if pierce isn't back. Especially if green is used to bring love in.

[LooseCannon]

I think you are missing two important points.

One, Gay shooting better than he did in Toronto(I say shooting because I don't think his overall game got better so much as he shot better), didn't make the Kings any better.

I can't prove that Gay was directly responsible, but I've already shown that the Kings won at a slightly better clip and improved offensively after the trade.

A better hypothesis might be that the Kings did slightly better because they were no longer giving John Salmons minutes and because they were giving more minutes to Isaiah Thomas.

[Lucky17]

I think you are missing two important points.

One, Gay shooting better than he did in Toronto(I say shooting because I don't think his overall game got better so much as he shot better), didn't make the Kings any better.

I can't prove that Gay was directly responsible, but I've already shown that the Kings won at a slightly better clip and improved offensively after the trade.

A better hypothesis might be that the Kings did slightly better because they were no longer giving John Salmons minutes and because they were giving more minutes to Isaiah Thomas.

I would agree that replacing John Salmons with Rudy Gay should spice up your offense.

[Celtics18]

Rondo tends to always go for the offensive rebound instead of getting back on defense, in addition to holding the ball until he can get the assist, and going for the lazy steal instead of playing sound positional defense.

They'll be a match made in heaven.  A couple of selfish stat-padders. 

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I don't understand why people ASSUME a person doesn't like Love just because they don't want to acquire him.

I have seen many of those opposed to it say they don't want him for the price (including me). I have also seen people who think Sully has the talent to give what Love does but be a better defender for MUCH LESS (again, I'm in that camp).

If he was a FA then bringing him in would be an easy choice, I don't think anyone would have a problem doing it if we could afford him.

We are going to be left like NYK, giving up MANY assets that's it's going to be very hard adding to the team after it.

I want to win just as much as the next person but Love doesn't make us much better, we will make the playoffs but not much more and we won't have the assets to improve the team in the near future.

If we could get Love for maybe Green and 2 future firsts but be able to keep and pick a SF with our #17, then I could stomach it, but I think we are giving up too much with Sully, all of our expiring, and MANY of our future firsts.

[McHales Pits]

I don't understand why people ASSUME a person doesn't like Love just because they don't want to acquire him.

I have seen many of those opposed to it say they don't want him for the price (including me). I have also seen people who think Sully has the talent to give what Love does but be a better defender for MUCH LESS (again, I'm in that camp).

If he was a FA then bringing him in would be an easy choice, I don't think anyone would have a problem doing it if we could afford him.

We are going to be left like NYK, giving up MANY assets that's it's going to be very hard adding to the team after it.

I want to win just as much as the next person but Love doesn't make us much better, we will make the playoffs but not much more and we won't have the assets to improve the team in the near future.

If we could get Love for maybe Green and 2 future firsts but be able to keep and pick a SF with our #17, then I could stomach it, but I think we are giving up too much with Sully, all of our expiring, and MANY of our future firsts.

That isn't the deal that is being discussed among most Cs or Wolves' fans, though.

What I have seen most is...

Cs send Sully/#6/#17/Bass/Bogans

Minny sends Kevin Love

There are other variations that have Kevin Martin (I would actually push for this because he can still play) coming to us with Anthony and other roster flotsam going back to them. They will push for another future 1st, but without an extension in hand I am willing to bet this is where DA draws the line in the sand. Why trade Green and keep Sully when that leaves us with two PFs with similar games and no SF? Sully may have a game that resembles Love's, but Love is way more productive now than Sully was this year and likely into the forseeable future as well given Love's age. This trade still leaves us with all Brooklyn picks, the Clipper pick, the 76er pick, and all of our picks (excluding #6 and #17 - picks that are a bigger risk of busting than Kevin Love).

If this is the cost to bring him in - you have to do it.

[LooseCannon]

I think you are missing two important points.

One, Gay shooting better than he did in Toronto(I say shooting because I don't think his overall game got better so much as he shot better), didn't make the Kings any better.

I can't prove that Gay was directly responsible, but I've already shown that the Kings won at a slightly better clip and improved offensively after the trade.

A better hypothesis might be that the Kings did slightly better because they were no longer giving John Salmons minutes and because they were giving more minutes to Isaiah Thomas.

I would agree that replacing John Salmons with Rudy Gay should spice up your offense.

Yes, replacing John Salmons with an average player helps.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I don't understand why people ASSUME a person doesn't like Love just because they don't want to acquire him.

I have seen many of those opposed to it say they don't want him for the price (including me). I have also seen people who think Sully has the talent to give what Love does but be a better defender for MUCH LESS (again, I'm in that camp).

If he was a FA then bringing him in would be an easy choice, I don't think anyone would have a problem doing it if we could afford him.

We are going to be left like NYK, giving up MANY assets that's it's going to be very hard adding to the team after it.

I want to win just as much as the next person but Love doesn't make us much better, we will make the playoffs but not much more and we won't have the assets to improve the team in the near future.

If we could get Love for maybe Green and 2 future firsts but be able to keep and pick a SF with our #17, then I could stomach it, but I think we are giving up too much with Sully, all of our expiring, and MANY of our future firsts.

That isn't the deal that is being discussed among most Cs or Wolves' fans, though.

What I have seen most is...

Cs send Sully/#6/#17/Bass/Bogans

Minny sends Kevin Love

There are other variations that have Kevin Martin (I would actually push for this because he can still play) coming to us with Anthony and other roster flotsam going back to them. They will push for another future 1st, but without an extension in hand I am willing to bet this is where DA draws the line in the sand. Why trade Green and keep Sully when that leaves us with two PFs with similar games and no SF? Sully may have a game that resembles Love's, but Love is way more productive now than Sully was this year and likely into the forseeable future as well given Love's age. This trade still leaves us with all Brooklyn picks, the Clipper pick, the 76er pick, and all of our picks (excluding #6 and #17 - picks that are a bigger risk of busting than Kevin Love).

If this is the cost to bring him in - you have to do it.

I don't see any post thinking that it's realistic that we are only giving up our 2 picks this season. We both know that's not happening.

I still don't want to do it (if it's Sully) but if it's just these 2 picks and Sully it wouldn't be AS bad. Minny doesn't take it though.

[Lucky17]

I think you are missing two important points.

One, Gay shooting better than he did in Toronto(I say shooting because I don't think his overall game got better so much as he shot better), didn't make the Kings any better.

I can't prove that Gay was directly responsible, but I've already shown that the Kings won at a slightly better clip and improved offensively after the trade.

A better hypothesis might be that the Kings did slightly better because they were no longer giving John Salmons minutes and because they were giving more minutes to Isaiah Thomas.

I would agree that replacing John Salmons with Rudy Gay should spice up your offense.

Yes, replacing John Salmons with an average player helps.

Both sides of the ball considered, I wonder if Gay is slightly above average? His usage and scoring numbers, both top 20, are very close to John Wall's numbers last year, almost identical.