Author Topic: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski  (Read 55647 times)

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Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #210 on: November 23, 2014, 10:57:21 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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one key article's point seems to be that that cleveland has really poor interior defense, and love is a culprit in it.

We have several culprits in ours.

Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #211 on: November 23, 2014, 10:58:42 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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one key article's point seems to be that that cleveland has really poor interior defense, and love is a culprit in it.

We have several culprits in ours.

But atleasy he's getting touches here. He wont be as disgruntled.
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Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #212 on: November 23, 2014, 11:10:17 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Kevin Love is an elite scorer, floor spacer (they're different) and rebounder. He is not a very good defender.

Currently Cleveland does not have a good defensive anchor. In a normal scheme, where Tristan Thompson was playing next to Andersen Varejao or something, they'd still be pretty poor at rim protection.

With Love there, they're abysmal.

The analogy I was making was that Rondo needs good shooters to capitalize on his elite passing and mitigate his flaws offensively.
 
Love ideally has an elite defensive anchor (Asik, Noah, Drummond, Gasol, Tyson Chandler, etc) next to him to mitigate his own shortcomings. Its not his fault that Cleveland didn't address this.

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Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #213 on: November 23, 2014, 11:24:16 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Kevin Love is an elite scorer, floor spacer (they're different) and rebounder. He is not a very good defender.

Currently Cleveland does not have a good defensive anchor. In a normal scheme, where Tristan Thompson was playing next to Andersen Varejao or something, they'd still be pretty poor at rim protection.

With Love there, they're abysmal.

The analogy I was making was that Rondo needs good shooters to capitalize on his elite passing and mitigate his flaws offensively.
 
Love ideally has an elite defensive anchor (Asik, Noah, Drummond, Gasol, Tyson Chandler, etc) next to him to mitigate his own shortcomings. Its not his fault that Cleveland didn't address this.
thanks for clarifying. i get your point now. i agree with your final point, but would add one of my own.

it is not as if love bears no responsibilty for the poor interior defense. ANYONE paired with a great defensive center would have their defensive limitations covered. my point is to agree with you AND add that love is a part of the problem.

and in reference to another poster above, yes the celtics have a lot of culprits in their terrible defense. love would have done nothing to resolve that.

hence my basic question, would a trade for love by ainge have propelled this team past the second round of the playoffs?
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Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #214 on: November 23, 2014, 11:37:05 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Hello everyone, and please, don't worry -- there's plenty of space on the "Kevin Love sorta sucks" train.
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Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #215 on: November 23, 2014, 12:13:14 PM »

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Yeah, Love is fine so long as he has strong defensive C alongside him.

His strengths on offense and as a rebounder more than compensate for his bad defense.

Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #216 on: November 23, 2014, 12:24:33 PM »

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no doubt love can score and rebound, we all knew that. indeed this season teamed with lebron, love is putting in 16.5 points/g and pulling down 9.9 rebounds per game.

yet, as some posters pointed out, does his poor defense negate a goodly portion of these stats? that is, when we look at love's offense contribution, then subtract the points his defense allows, does he really impact a team as an elite player?

discuss.

Yes, it does negate a good portion of his value.

K-Love's offensive impact and rebounding should be much higher than what Cleveland is currently getting out him. With lower offensive output and lower rebounding, the net margin of K-Love's impact is considerably lower. I'd say K-Love's current impact is more in line with what you would expect to get out of a top 15 PF rather than what he is  - which is one of the best big men in the league.

When K-Love is being used to full effect as offensive player and rebounder, his contributions there more than out-way his bad defense. He is a fantastic player. His offensive value is probably 2nd highest in the league after Dirk amongst big men and consistently one of the top rebounding PFs in the NBA. Overall impact, very high despite bad defense. Truly one of the best bigs in the league today (despite the bad defense).

Basically, Cleveland are shooting themselves in the foot by taking a great offense / limited defense player and not involving him more on offense.

Cleveland have only themselves to blame for lower impact of K-Love (head coach first and foremost, LeBron secondly & Kyrie also).

Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #217 on: November 23, 2014, 12:25:01 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Yeah big centers are worthless ......we don't need them.....it's small ball.....that's the ticket......LeBron doesn 't need a center ...he is a one man army. 

Cleveland doesn't have the same team as Heat, not as good ,  James is not as young any more and probably feeling the effects of age and play based on athletic ability . 

James looks 45 years old .....I think he looks tired and minus the superhuman stamina he once had.

His ability to force his will , like he did on Boston in those epic series is waning.  He can still take over, but not for game after game for weeks on end.

Starting to see his armor crack .  He needs better help than four years ago.  He may have to cut out and head to another contender .

Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #218 on: November 23, 2014, 12:28:47 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Yeah, Love is fine so long as he has strong defensive C alongside him.

His strengths on offense and as a rebounder more than compensate for his bad defense.

Since when is Nikola Pecovic a strong defensive center?

Don't get me wrong.  Love's a bad defender and it's more exposed now because he plays third fiddle on offense.  And having a good defensive big is always nice.

There's a LOT more wrong with Boston's defense, however, than a lack of a rim protector.  Last season was more the case of Celtic defensive trouble starting with no shot blocking/lane clogging.  This season the defense is terrible outside and in.

Mike

Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #219 on: November 23, 2014, 12:34:47 PM »

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Yeah, Love is fine so long as he has strong defensive C alongside him.

His strengths on offense and as a rebounder more than compensate for his bad defense.

Since when is Nikola Pecovic a strong defensive center?

He is not. Pek is lousy defensively.

That is why Minnesota was not a playoff team while K-Love was there.

Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #220 on: November 23, 2014, 12:42:09 PM »

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Yeah big centers are worthless ......we don't need them.....it's small ball.....that's the ticket......LeBron doesn 't need a center ...he is a one man army. 

Cleveland doesn't have the same team as Heat, not as good ,  James is not as young any more and probably feeling the effects of age and play based on athletic ability . 

James looks 45 years old .....I think he looks tired and minus the superhuman stamina he once had.

His ability to force his will , like he did on Boston in those epic series is waning.  He can still take over, but not for game after game for weeks on end.

Starting to see his armor crack .  He needs better help than four years ago.  He may have to cut out and head to another contender .


I think what you are saying (and if you're not, than I AM)....James went Off the juice this summer---and now he's just a regular Great Player---NOT unstoppable----would have happened to Barry Bonds too--!!
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #221 on: November 23, 2014, 02:20:14 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Yeah, Love is fine so long as he has strong defensive C alongside him.

His strengths on offense and as a rebounder more than compensate for his bad defense.

Since when is Nikola Pecovic a strong defensive center?

He is not. Pek is lousy defensively.

That is why Minnesota was not a playoff team while K-Love was there.

Minny went 40-42 in the West last season.  They would have been a good playoff team in the East and that's with defense-challenged bigs like Love and Pek.

Mike

Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #222 on: November 23, 2014, 02:28:15 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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Yeah big centers are worthless ......we don't need them.....it's small ball.....that's the ticket......LeBron doesn 't need a center ...he is a one man army. 

Cleveland doesn't have the same team as Heat, not as good ,  James is not as young any more and probably feeling the effects of age and play based on athletic ability . 

James looks 45 years old .....I think he looks tired and minus the superhuman stamina he once had.

His ability to force his will , like he did on Boston in those epic series is waning.  He can still take over, but not for game after game for weeks on end.

Starting to see his armor crack .  He needs better help than four years ago.  He may have to cut out and head to another contender .


I think what you are saying (and if you're not, than I AM)....James went Off the juice this summer---and now he's just a regular Great Player---NOT unstoppable----would have happened to Barry Bonds too--!!
Tp

I'm glad that more people now are starting to finally question him on this. Even on some espn shows he's starting to get called out on it (although it seems like they've been told NOT to say 'hgh')
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Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #223 on: November 23, 2014, 03:00:44 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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People are still overreacting to the Cavs early season struggles?  Really?

Re: Kevin Love per Wojnarowski
« Reply #224 on: November 23, 2014, 04:54:26 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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People are still overreacting to the Cavs early season struggles?  Really?

I'm not sure they'll easily turn it around like the Heat did........