Has LeBron surpassed Bird?

[Moranis]

Statistically? Obviously he will pass Bird.  However, here is why he will never surpass any of the true greats (Jordan/Magic/Bird) in terms of actual greatness-

He plays against NO competition!

As Dave Chappelle would say "You win by default". 

Never in the history of any other major sport has there been a collusion of great players in their prime to create a superteam that would unbalance the league.  Well, maybe the Lakers getting Shaq and Kobe, and Karl Malone and Gary Payton, and Dwight Howard , but none of those players really liked one another, let alone were BFF's with an agenda to rig sports.

Also, I know a lot of people would argue that Jordan benefited from a lack of competition like Lebron did, but Jordan didn't have to collude with Barkley and Olijuwon to form his superteam, he let the G.M take care of that without tampering like the CHeat do.

But, seriously the Heat have no competition. 

Lebron is the Pharell of the N.B.A.  Let me explain my analogy-

Let's say Lebron is Pharell, so Larry Bird is....Stevie Wonder. 

Pharell has talent, but can't make hit music without the aid of others powerful elements- Compilations, samples, and the big one Autotune!- To correct the fact that this world famous "singer" can't even sing!  Yet he is the top artist in the world.  Music is bad now a days, really bad, and Pharell benefits from that lack of competition.

Lebron has talent, but can't win without the aid of other powerful elements- Superstar team mates, Massive media attention, and the big one....The League handing him an excuse to every hole in his game.  Lebron can't dribble, he "never commits fouls" and everything about his game is not clutch.  He relies on the contributions of other stars to succeed.  I mean please, 38 yr old Ray Allen saves him last year and gets him a ring? What a legend!

Meanwhile, Larry Bird, (Stevie Wonder) will go down as one of the best singer/songwriters of his time, even though he played in an era where there where other great artists doing their thing.  (Competition) Also, Stevie Wonder doesn't use Autotune like Lebron/Pharell uses Officiating to fix holes in his game (Autotune). And this is against weak competition!!!!!!!!

Meaning- Bird never really got the "Jordan" or "Lebron" calls from the refs, handing him his victories.  Bird played against greater competition than either of them and worked his tail off doing so.  Unfortunately, after actually having to work for his victories and dive all over the court etc., his body eventually breaks down, and you're left with the career that is now being "surpassed" by Lebron.   

this entire post is just silly.

[Banner18now!]

Lebron came into the league at age 18 and will play much more healthy seasons than Larry Bird did so right from the top most people would assume Lebron because of all his stats. I will compare Larry from 83-87 and take those years over Lebrons best years.
Lebron is the better defender and of course has a stronger game to the basket then Bird.
LeBron has a good basketball IQ but Larry still edges him in that department. Bird had no where near the physical abilities that Lebron was born with yet Larry still dominated the league.

Bird was by far a superior shooter than Lebron and by far more clutch. Bird was also the better rebounder and even though Lebron is a good passer Larry still has him beat there.

I would have also loved to see how Lebron would have responded getting knocked around in a tough 80's league  for a guy his size he doesn't like contact were Bird seemed to thrive on it and get p---ed.

So don't fall in love with ESPN hype machine of Lebron, yes he is a great player but give me Larry from 83-87 over Lebron any day of the week.

[soap07]

LeBron's more athletic than Bird but he doesn't see or evaluate the game as well as Larry did. Also, for the bulk of his career he wasn't in Larry's class in terms of scoring ability or confidence in his offensive game.

I suppose I shouldn't bite. But I will. But I'd like some explanation of this - this seems entirely arbitrary and without any real factual basis for this.

[Banner18now!]

And again with 5 minutes left in the game who would you be more afraid of Lebron or Larry? Not even close, this is what happens living in the ESPN hype machine of Lebron, you forget how great players like Larry where in their prime and assume oh yea ESPN thinks Lebron is better so yea he must be.

[Tr1boy]

Unless Lebron wins another ring, the debate as to who is/was better will always exist

[quidinqui33]

1984 - 1987 Larry Bird is the greatest basketball player ever to me. Better than Jordan, better than bron. However, both of those guys will have done it at a very high level for longer and that ultimately pushes them past bird.  Bron is not there yet though.

[Moranis]

Lebron came into the league at age 18 and will play much more healthy seasons than Larry Bird did so right from the top most people would assume Lebron because of all his stats. I will compare Larry from 83-87 and take those years over Lebrons best years.
Lebron is the better defender and of course has a stronger game to the basket then Bird.
LeBron has a good basketball IQ but Larry still edges him in that department. Bird had no where near the physical abilities that Lebron was born with yet Larry still dominated the league.

Bird was by far a superior shooter than Lebron and by far more clutch. Bird was also the better rebounder and even though Lebron is a good passer Larry still has him beat there.

I would have also loved to see how Lebron would have responded getting knocked around in a tough 80's league  for a guy his size he doesn't like contact were Bird seemed to thrive on it and get p---ed.

So don't fall in love with ESPN hype machine of Lebron, yes he is a great player but give me Larry from 83-87 over Lebron any day of the week.

If you actually look at rates, Lebron is a more efficient shooter than Larry, both in TS% and eFG% (though Larry is slightly better from three).  Lebron is also a much better passer than Larry was based on AST%.  Larry was a better rebounder (both in totals and rates).  Lebron in 50 less career games already has more points and assists than Larry did. 

If Lebron hasn't yet passed Larry on the all time list, he will very shortly.  In fact, Lebron will pass pretty much everyone when all is said and done if he stays healthy.  He is just that good. 

[Banner18now!]

1984 - 1987 Larry Bird is the greatest basketball player ever to me. Better than Jordan, better than bron. However, both of those guys will have done it at a very high level for longer and that ultimately pushes them past bird.  Bron is not there yet though.

Agreed, the fair way to compare players is take their best years as a sample. So put up Lebrons 4 best years to Larry's, Larry was better. Bird came into the league at 23 Lebron 18. Bird after 7 years in the league had injury problems and was never the same player. So longevity goes to Lebron but that doesn't make him better.

[SparzWizard]

Has LeBron surpassed Kobe? Or does only Kobe fans think that Kobe is the greatest of all time?

Now that I mentioned it, Timmy D should be working on his sixth ring by now if it wasn't for Ray Allen Game 6 last year, ughh.

[Banner18now!]

Lebron came into the league at age 18 and will play much more healthy seasons than Larry Bird did so right from the top most people would assume Lebron because of all his stats. I will compare Larry from 83-87 and take those years over Lebrons best years.
Lebron is the better defender and of course has a stronger game to the basket then Bird.
LeBron has a good basketball IQ but Larry still edges him in that department. Bird had no where near the physical abilities that Lebron was born with yet Larry still dominated the league.

Bird was by far a superior shooter than Lebron and by far more clutch. Bird was also the better rebounder and even though Lebron is a good passer Larry still has him beat there.

I would have also loved to see how Lebron would have responded getting knocked around in a tough 80's league  for a guy his size he doesn't like contact were Bird seemed to thrive on it and get p---ed.

So don't fall in love with ESPN hype machine of Lebron, yes he is a great player but give me Larry from 83-87 over Lebron any day of the week.

If you actually look at rates, Lebron is a more efficient shooter than Larry, both in TS% and eFG% (though Larry is slightly better from three).  Lebron is also a much better passer than Larry was based on AST%.  Larry was a better rebounder (both in totals and rates).  Lebron in 50 less career games already has more points and assists than Larry did. 

If Lebron hasn't yet passed Larry on the all time list, he will very shortly.  In fact, Lebron will pass pretty much everyone when all is said and done if he stays healthy.  He is just that good.

That statement is wrong. Lebron has played in 11 seasons, Bird's first 11 he missed an entire year except for 6 games. After 11 years in both careers Lebron played in 50 more games not 50 less than Bird.

Lebron had 5,790 assist Bird had 5,489 in 50 less games. The year before Bird got hurt he was averaging 7.6 assist which would give him in 50 more games 79 more assist than James.

Lebron has a higher shooting % because his game to the basket was better than Larry's thus giving him a higher % being closer to the basket. There is no way on god's green earth you will ever convince me Lebron is a better shooter than Larry.

Larry is also know as the best passing forward in NBA history so again you will never convince me Lebron is better there no matter how you try to slice the numbers. Again Bird played 50 less games had he not he would have had more assists then Lebron.

[moiso]

Has LeBron surpassed Kobe? Or does only Kobe fans think that Kobe is the greatest of all time?

Now that I mentioned it, Timmy D should be working on his sixth ring by now if it wasn't for Ray Allen Game 6 last year, ughh.

I think Lebron surpassed Kobe years ago.

[Celtics4ever]

Never.  You must not have seen Bird Play to ask that.   We can talk stats and all that but Larry never vanished or choked that I can recall.   I can recall a handful of times that LeBron has choked or deferred to team mates.

[BballTim]

LeBron's more athletic than Bird but he doesn't see or evaluate the game as well as Larry did. Also, for the bulk of his career he wasn't in Larry's class in terms of scoring ability or confidence in his offensive game.

I suppose I shouldn't bite. But I will. But I'd like some explanation of this - this seems entirely arbitrary and without any real factual basis for this.

  Did you actually see Bird play?

[Vox_Populi]

I find myself in a strange situation where I think James will finish as the greatest player ever, or tied with Jordan, but I won't have consider him as having surpassed Larry. If that makes any sense.

[BballTim]

Lebron came into the league at age 18 and will play much more healthy seasons than Larry Bird did so right from the top most people would assume Lebron because of all his stats. I will compare Larry from 83-87 and take those years over Lebrons best years.
Lebron is the better defender and of course has a stronger game to the basket then Bird.
LeBron has a good basketball IQ but Larry still edges him in that department. Bird had no where near the physical abilities that Lebron was born with yet Larry still dominated the league.

Bird was by far a superior shooter than Lebron and by far more clutch. Bird was also the better rebounder and even though Lebron is a good passer Larry still has him beat there.

I would have also loved to see how Lebron would have responded getting knocked around in a tough 80's league  for a guy his size he doesn't like contact were Bird seemed to thrive on it and get p---ed.

So don't fall in love with ESPN hype machine of Lebron, yes he is a great player but give me Larry from 83-87 over Lebron any day of the week.

If you actually look at rates, Lebron is a more efficient shooter than Larry, both in TS% and eFG% (though Larry is slightly better from three).  Lebron is also a much better passer than Larry was based on AST%.  Larry was a better rebounder (both in totals and rates).  Lebron in 50 less career games already has more points and assists than Larry did. 

  LeBron's nowhere near the passer Bird was. LeBron's one of the better passing forwards of all time, probably a level or so below the better passing point guards in the league. Bird was arguably the best passer ever, any position. I can remember the occasional game where teams backed off him when he had the ball and let him shoot because they were so concerned with his passing, and this was one of the best shooters ever they were doing that to.