How do the celtics get Drummond

[Moranis]

If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo.

Thing is, what's Detroit gonna do with Brandon Jennings if they make a trade for Rondo?  Is anybody gonna take on that contract?

Jennings' contract isn't all that bad just 2 years left 16.3 million total.  Still just 24 and not a horrible player (his 2PT% is bad, but he is a respectable 3PT and FT shooter). 

I would guess during free agency, a reasonable trade for Detroit and Boston would be something like this.

Monroe (S&T 4 yrs, 60 million), Jennings (2 yrs, 16.3 million), Singler (1 yr, 1 million), Caldwell-Pope (1 yr 2.77 million with 2 more years of team options), Jerekbo (1 yr, 4.5 million) (total ~ 31 million)

for

Rondo (1 yr, 13 million), Bradley (S&T 4 yrs, 25 million), Bass (1 yr, 6.95 million), Anthony (1 yr, 3.8 million) (total ~ 30 million)

That trade seems to be fairly reasonable for both team.  Boston gets a lot younger and Detroit gets a much better fit for its roster.  Other players and picks of course can be added, but I do think that is a pretty solid trade on the hole (depending on just how much you value Monroe of course).

This might work in theory, but wouldn't that leave the celtics with a team on which three players (Drummond, Wallace, and Jennings) eat up approximately 66% of the total salary cap? ($41ish Million)

The celtics would have to fill out their roster (12 more spaces) using about $21 million.

And those three players are not all great. I see your point and it's attraction, but I am not sure this is the optimum use of salary space to get the best talent.

Boston would be over the cap in that situation, but not over the luxury tax.  Then as Wallace, Green, and Jennings come off the books, the team will have young players and draft picks galore.

So if that was the trade that was made Boston would look like this

PG - Jennings
SG - Caldwell-Pope, Babb, Johnson
SF - Green, Singler, Wallace
PF - Sullinger, Olynyk, Jerekbo
C - Monroe, Faverani

Plus #5, #18 and easily able to re-sign Bayless and Humphries.   Also, could still use the MLE for a better bench guard.  Not a great team, but I think a better start given Monroe's age as compared to Rondo's.  Team would also get another high pick in the 2015 draft and probably the 2016 draft (unless these young guys hit) and that is when there is cap space and presumably a lot of young talent (with all of the draft picks).  Sure that means another couple of seasons of not the best team out there, but I would feel really good about where that team is in the summer of 2016. 

none of your reasoning behind this trade is a selling point for it.  if anything, it supports the argument against it.

your best player is probably Monroe on that roster.  Monroe is a really a PF, not a center.  so we're again playing a PF out of position at center.  he also isn't that exceptional at anything except being tall.  not a lot of effort expended while he plays.  he's going to cost someone 14-16 mill per year when he signs his next contract simply because he's good at being tall.  he doesn't make his teammates any better when he's on the court.  he's not a draw for any top players to want to play with.
These are all things that Rondo offers a superior value for:
- elite passer and ballhandler-->can do everything at an elite level for a PG except his shooting. 
- draw for other players to want to join --> several of the top players have gone on record stating that
- next contract will be maybe 14-15 mill per year.
- plays with more effort and has shown the ability to put his stamp on a game, particularly in the playoffs.
- makes his teammates better when he's on the floor -- certainly on offense.  admittedly he wasn't engaged on D this past year but when playing with teammates that play hard, he puts in the effort.

as for the rest of the moves, you've made the team Detroit-east and going nowhere fast.  in your own words you're basing your optimism on some off the expected lottery picks through 2016 to pan out.  still no go-to scorer on the roster.  you're also counting on improving the team via free agency when the Green/Wallace deals expire but who'd want to come play with Jennings and Monroe?  not even Josh Smith would make that mistake again.

No I would premise free agents wanting to play with Dante Exum (possible #5), TJ Warren (#17), Karl Towns (projected #3 next year), Greg Monroe, JJ Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk, etc. plus having the money to offer them a nice contract. 

The reality is Rondo is going to want a max deal and is going to be on the wrong side of 30 and Boston will still only have room for 1 max player in 2015 (and that assumes Rondo even re-signs).  Keeping Rondo will make the team better next year, no question, but it is far away from being a contender, so what is the point.  Now sure if Boston can acquire some real talent this summer and get up into the true contender range, then sure keep Rondo and build around him, but if it is basically the status quo, then Boston will be in much worse shape going forward.

[Monkhouse]

I don't know if Rondo wants a max contract. He might ask for 15-16 million.

Honestly, I don't get the notion at how people seem to think Rondo wants to be a max contract type of player. If Danny Ainge and Rondo sat down to talk, and converse about Ainge's intention to try to lure a superstar here, or bring in an Allstar. Do you really think Rondo would leave the comfort of Boston, and act selfish?

Rondo is a very intelligent person. He knows the game, and he knows Ainge is the one running the ship. He will definitely give us a hometown discount.

[slamtheking]

If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo.

Thing is, what's Detroit gonna do with Brandon Jennings if they make a trade for Rondo?  Is anybody gonna take on that contract?

Jennings' contract isn't all that bad just 2 years left 16.3 million total.  Still just 24 and not a horrible player (his 2PT% is bad, but he is a respectable 3PT and FT shooter). 

I would guess during free agency, a reasonable trade for Detroit and Boston would be something like this.

Monroe (S&T 4 yrs, 60 million), Jennings (2 yrs, 16.3 million), Singler (1 yr, 1 million), Caldwell-Pope (1 yr 2.77 million with 2 more years of team options), Jerekbo (1 yr, 4.5 million) (total ~ 31 million)

for

Rondo (1 yr, 13 million), Bradley (S&T 4 yrs, 25 million), Bass (1 yr, 6.95 million), Anthony (1 yr, 3.8 million) (total ~ 30 million)

That trade seems to be fairly reasonable for both team.  Boston gets a lot younger and Detroit gets a much better fit for its roster.  Other players and picks of course can be added, but I do think that is a pretty solid trade on the hole (depending on just how much you value Monroe of course).

This might work in theory, but wouldn't that leave the celtics with a team on which three players (Drummond, Wallace, and Jennings) eat up approximately 66% of the total salary cap? ($41ish Million)

The celtics would have to fill out their roster (12 more spaces) using about $21 million.

And those three players are not all great. I see your point and it's attraction, but I am not sure this is the optimum use of salary space to get the best talent.

Boston would be over the cap in that situation, but not over the luxury tax.  Then as Wallace, Green, and Jennings come off the books, the team will have young players and draft picks galore.

So if that was the trade that was made Boston would look like this

PG - Jennings
SG - Caldwell-Pope, Babb, Johnson
SF - Green, Singler, Wallace
PF - Sullinger, Olynyk, Jerekbo
C - Monroe, Faverani

Plus #5, #18 and easily able to re-sign Bayless and Humphries.   Also, could still use the MLE for a better bench guard.  Not a great team, but I think a better start given Monroe's age as compared to Rondo's.  Team would also get another high pick in the 2015 draft and probably the 2016 draft (unless these young guys hit) and that is when there is cap space and presumably a lot of young talent (with all of the draft picks).  Sure that means another couple of seasons of not the best team out there, but I would feel really good about where that team is in the summer of 2016. 

none of your reasoning behind this trade is a selling point for it.  if anything, it supports the argument against it.

your best player is probably Monroe on that roster.  Monroe is a really a PF, not a center.  so we're again playing a PF out of position at center.  he also isn't that exceptional at anything except being tall.  not a lot of effort expended while he plays.  he's going to cost someone 14-16 mill per year when he signs his next contract simply because he's good at being tall.  he doesn't make his teammates any better when he's on the court.  he's not a draw for any top players to want to play with.
These are all things that Rondo offers a superior value for:
- elite passer and ballhandler-->can do everything at an elite level for a PG except his shooting. 
- draw for other players to want to join --> several of the top players have gone on record stating that
- next contract will be maybe 14-15 mill per year.
- plays with more effort and has shown the ability to put his stamp on a game, particularly in the playoffs.
- makes his teammates better when he's on the floor -- certainly on offense.  admittedly he wasn't engaged on D this past year but when playing with teammates that play hard, he puts in the effort.

as for the rest of the moves, you've made the team Detroit-east and going nowhere fast.  in your own words you're basing your optimism on some off the expected lottery picks through 2016 to pan out.  still no go-to scorer on the roster.  you're also counting on improving the team via free agency when the Green/Wallace deals expire but who'd want to come play with Jennings and Monroe?  not even Josh Smith would make that mistake again.

No I would premise free agents wanting to play with Dante Exum (possible #5), TJ Warren (#17), Karl Towns (projected #3 next year), Greg Monroe, JJ Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk, etc. plus having the money to offer them a nice contract. 

The reality is Rondo is going to want a max deal and is going to be on the wrong side of 30 and Boston will still only have room for 1 max player in 2015 (and that assumes Rondo even re-signs).  Keeping Rondo will make the team better next year, no question, but it is far away from being a contender, so what is the point.  Now sure if Boston can acquire some real talent this summer and get up into the true contender range, then sure keep Rondo and build around him, but if it is basically the status quo, then Boston will be in much worse shape going forward.

Seriously, the team's selling point to free agents is come play with a bunch of role players and unproven youth.  by the way, Exum's gone by #4.  he won't be there at 5.  To pile on to that thought, I don't see FAs flocking to Cle or Wash to play with other high-profile PGs in Kyrie and Wall and they're much more established.  TJ Warren? yeah, not a draw.  I'd be happy with him as a pick, but he's no draw.  Towns?  really?  you're pinning your hopes of a free agent draw on being the 3rd worst team in the league to get a player that hasn't played a minute of college ball yet. 

Your statement about Rondo wanting a max deal doesn't mean anything.  EVERY player wants a max deal.  doesn't mean they'll get it.  I'm a fan of Rondo but in no way do I consider him a max-deal player.  he could reasonably get a contract between $13-15 mill depending on how he plays next year.  Monroe will be looking for at least that and more without being as good a player as Rondo.  your right that the team isn't a contender with rondo but they're less of a contender with Monroe.  Rondo's not that old where I would worry about his age when he signs the deal.  it'll most likely be 4 years max and he'll still be in his prime.  monroe's yet to show he'll have a prime. 

I'm just not seeing the fascination with Monroe over Rondo.  for me, your viewpoints/argument doesn't hold water.

[BballTim]

Drummond is oozing potential. He is a big body, a monster rebounder, but he is still very raw. Is he more Deandre Jordon, Dwight Howard, or Andrew Bynum?

  I think this year's Jordan is a good comparison.

[BballTim]

If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo.

Thing is, what's Detroit gonna do with Brandon Jennings if they make a trade for Rondo?  Is anybody gonna take on that contract?

Jennings' contract isn't all that bad just 2 years left 16.3 million total.  Still just 24 and not a horrible player (his 2PT% is bad, but he is a respectable 3PT and FT shooter). 

I would guess during free agency, a reasonable trade for Detroit and Boston would be something like this.

Monroe (S&T 4 yrs, 60 million), Jennings (2 yrs, 16.3 million), Singler (1 yr, 1 million), Caldwell-Pope (1 yr 2.77 million with 2 more years of team options), Jerekbo (1 yr, 4.5 million) (total ~ 31 million)

for

Rondo (1 yr, 13 million), Bradley (S&T 4 yrs, 25 million), Bass (1 yr, 6.95 million), Anthony (1 yr, 3.8 million) (total ~ 30 million)

That trade seems to be fairly reasonable for both team.  Boston gets a lot younger and Detroit gets a much better fit for its roster.  Other players and picks of course can be added, but I do think that is a pretty solid trade on the hole (depending on just how much you value Monroe of course).

This might work in theory, but wouldn't that leave the celtics with a team on which three players (Drummond, Wallace, and Jennings) eat up approximately 66% of the total salary cap? ($41ish Million)

The celtics would have to fill out their roster (12 more spaces) using about $21 million.

And those three players are not all great. I see your point and it's attraction, but I am not sure this is the optimum use of salary space to get the best talent.

Boston would be over the cap in that situation, but not over the luxury tax.  Then as Wallace, Green, and Jennings come off the books, the team will have young players and draft picks galore.

So if that was the trade that was made Boston would look like this

PG - Jennings
SG - Caldwell-Pope, Babb, Johnson
SF - Green, Singler, Wallace
PF - Sullinger, Olynyk, Jerekbo
C - Monroe, Faverani

Plus #5, #18 and easily able to re-sign Bayless and Humphries.   Also, could still use the MLE for a better bench guard.  Not a great team, but I think a better start given Monroe's age as compared to Rondo's.  Team would also get another high pick in the 2015 draft and probably the 2016 draft (unless these young guys hit) and that is when there is cap space and presumably a lot of young talent (with all of the draft picks).  Sure that means another couple of seasons of not the best team out there, but I would feel really good about where that team is in the summer of 2016. 

none of your reasoning behind this trade is a selling point for it.  if anything, it supports the argument against it.

your best player is probably Monroe on that roster.  Monroe is a really a PF, not a center.  so we're again playing a PF out of position at center.  he also isn't that exceptional at anything except being tall.  not a lot of effort expended while he plays.  he's going to cost someone 14-16 mill per year when he signs his next contract simply because he's good at being tall.  he doesn't make his teammates any better when he's on the court.  he's not a draw for any top players to want to play with.
These are all things that Rondo offers a superior value for:
- elite passer and ballhandler-->can do everything at an elite level for a PG except his shooting. 
- draw for other players to want to join --> several of the top players have gone on record stating that
- next contract will be maybe 14-15 mill per year.
- plays with more effort and has shown the ability to put his stamp on a game, particularly in the playoffs.
- makes his teammates better when he's on the floor -- certainly on offense.  admittedly he wasn't engaged on D this past year but when playing with teammates that play hard, he puts in the effort.

as for the rest of the moves, you've made the team Detroit-east and going nowhere fast.  in your own words you're basing your optimism on some off the expected lottery picks through 2016 to pan out.  still no go-to scorer on the roster.  you're also counting on improving the team via free agency when the Green/Wallace deals expire but who'd want to come play with Jennings and Monroe?  not even Josh Smith would make that mistake again.

No I would premise free agents wanting to play with Dante Exum (possible #5), TJ Warren (#17), Karl Towns (projected #3 next year), Greg Monroe, JJ Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk, etc. plus having the money to offer them a nice contract. 

  Free agents want to play with established stars, not young players on lottery teams.

[moiso]

Drummond is oozing potential. He is a big body, a monster rebounder, but he is still very raw. Is he more Deandre Jordon, Dwight Howard, or Andrew Bynum?

  I think this year's Jordan is a good comparison.

Yeah, he is like Jordan at this time.  But Drummond is 20 and Jordan is 25.  I'd say Jordan is Drummond's floor.

[manl_lui]

Drummond is oozing potential. He is a big body, a monster rebounder, but he is still very raw. Is he more Deandre Jordon, Dwight Howard, or Andrew Bynum?

  I think this year's Jordan is a good comparison.

Yeah, he is like Jordan at this time.  But Drummond is 20 and Jordan is 25.  I'd say Jordan is Drummond's floor.

I agree with this statement. If Drummond is healthy, I think he can be even better. I think he will be an all star tbh

[Quetzalcoatl]

I feel like Drummond is younger every time someone brings his age up.  Dude is going to be a star in 12 years when he finally hits his mid twenties

[Mr October]

Drummond is oozing potential. He is a big body, a monster rebounder, but he is still very raw. Is he more Deandre Jordon, Dwight Howard, or Andrew Bynum?

  I think this year's Jordan is a good comparison.

Yeah, he is like Jordan at this time.  But Drummond is 20 and Jordan is 25.  I'd say Jordan is Drummond's floor.

Yeah, Drummond should become better than Jordan. He is still very young. The lone question mark i have is how much does he really want to reach his potential? How hard is he going to work on his defensive game? How coachable is he?

It's hard to tell. Maybe like Cousins we wont know how good either of those guys can be until they are on the right team with the right leadership.

[D.o.s.]

Not trying to be snarky but if Drummond is all that great why does Detroit suck so much? Is it the bad fit of all their parts? Is it that Drummond may be a beast on the boards and within 5 feet of the basket but lacks other skills? Everyone always talks about Drummond as if he's the most desirable player in the league. Is he going to turn us into a championship team overnight? I don't get it. Just wondering.

What'd you think of KD when he spent that year in Seattle?

[BballTim]

Not trying to be snarky but if Drummond is all that great why does Detroit suck so much? Is it the bad fit of all their parts? Is it that Drummond may be a beast on the boards and within 5 feet of the basket but lacks other skills? Everyone always talks about Drummond as if he's the most desirable player in the league. Is he going to turn us into a championship team overnight? I don't get it. Just wondering.

What'd you think of KD when he spent that year in Seattle?

  I thought he was significantly better than Drummond, who's very raw on offense right now.

[D.o.s.]

Not trying to be snarky but if Drummond is all that great why does Detroit suck so much? Is it the bad fit of all their parts? Is it that Drummond may be a beast on the boards and within 5 feet of the basket but lacks other skills? Everyone always talks about Drummond as if he's the most desirable player in the league. Is he going to turn us into a championship team overnight? I don't get it. Just wondering.

What'd you think of KD when he spent that year in Seattle?

  I thought he was significantly better than Drummond, who's very raw on offense right now.

Agreed -- just pointing out the flaws in the "if the player's that good, why does his team struggle?" line of inquiry.

[indeedproceed]

Not trying to be snarky but if Drummond is all that great why does Detroit suck so much? Is it the bad fit of all their parts? Is it that Drummond may be a beast on the boards and within 5 feet of the basket but lacks other skills? Everyone always talks about Drummond as if he's the most desirable player in the league. Is he going to turn us into a championship team overnight? I don't get it. Just wondering.

What'd you think of KD when he spent that year in Seattle?

  I thought he was significantly better than Drummond, who's very raw on offense right now.

Agreed -- just pointing out the flaws in the "if the player's that good, why does his team struggle?" line of inquiry.

I think a lot of the issues there on both the, 'trade everything' for Drummond front (which doesn't really exist, but it's a useful argumentative tactic to prop up a fake counter argument...there's gotta be a name for that..if I only had a brain) and the 'Drummond isn't even that good you guys' front is that Drummond is so incredibly undeniably raw.

People comped him to D Jordan earlier in the thread, but I think a much better comp is a healthy JaVale McGee. He's better, if by no measure other than that he plays under more control, but they share lots of fundamental similarities.

They're both stat stuffers , elite shot blockers but not necessarily elite defenders, and elite rebounders (or merely good in McGee's case). But both guys undeniably valuable physical gifts are held back by an underdeveloped basketball acumen. Neither guy consistently plays smart, and neither guy really knows how to play good defense consistently.

And while it's tempting to point to their teams talent and use that as an excuse for the teams lack of success (and it would be true in both cases, McGee's Wizards and Drum's pistons), they can't be held bereft of blame. Both guys fail their teams in ways you wouldn't really notice anywhere than the scoreboard.

I do think that Drummond is gonna figure it out, but I don't think there is any way someone could call him a thing close to a complete player on either side of the ball.

[D.o.s.]

JaVale>Drummond.

Unarguable Evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geIRNnQalsw

You're really going to want to watch that one at least five times.

[Tr1boy]

Drummond is dhoward part 2.  Low iq and lack of offensive skills. But has a beast body