Author Topic: How do the celtics get Drummond  (Read 16737 times)

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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2014, 02:42:46 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I think the only problem is Drummond doesn't have any offensive skill set besides rebounding, dunking, catching lobs, and putbacks.

You know who else can do that, but would only cost probably an expiring contract, and a couple of second rounders? Josh Smith.


Key difference though is that Drummond knows that he doesn't have any offensive skill, whereas Josh Smith attempted 265 three pointers this year and connected on .264% of them.

I'm a huge fan of Josh Smith. But when you play with Brandon Jennings, and two big men that clog up paint, and deny you the ability to drive in the paint, what else are you going to do?

Pass the ball?  Try to get a teammate an open look?

26.4% from three equates to around 39% from 2PT.  That's not smart basketball, regardless of your teammates.

It isn't smart basketball, but nothing about the Pistons roster made sense either.

I didn't like the Josh Smith signing from the Pistons anyways. They had a young and upcoming PF in Monroe, so why upset him by taking on another PF that is overpaid?
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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2014, 03:08:00 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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probably trade Sully/Bradley and a first rounder

I'd do that in a heart beat

Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2014, 03:10:40 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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probably trade Sully/Bradley and a first rounder

I'd do that in a heart beat

I would also give them Green/Bogans if they wanted for Smith.

Gives Rondo all the more incentive to re-sign with us.
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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2014, 03:30:58 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Drummond is oozing potential. He is a big body, a monster rebounder, but he is still very raw. Is he more Deandre Jordon, Dwight Howard, or Andrew Bynum?

Drummond isn't the force that Howard was early in his career. I cant see Drummond leading a team to the finals in his 5th season. That leaves a Jordan, Bynum type of player. Will he be worth a max contract in 2 years? He is going to cost someone 17 million per year.

Detroit needs to get a real point guard and some shooters in that team so that they can really get a better idea of what their front line can do.

Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2014, 04:08:57 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo. 
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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2014, 04:13:23 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo.

Thing is, what's Detroit gonna do with Brandon Jennings if they make a trade for Rondo?  Is anybody gonna take on that contract?
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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2014, 04:51:29 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo.

Thing is, what's Detroit gonna do with Brandon Jennings if they make a trade for Rondo?  Is anybody gonna take on that contract?
Jennings' contract isn't all that bad just 2 years left 16.3 million total.  Still just 24 and not a horrible player (his 2PT% is bad, but he is a respectable 3PT and FT shooter). 

I would guess during free agency, a reasonable trade for Detroit and Boston would be something like this.

Monroe (S&T 4 yrs, 60 million), Jennings (2 yrs, 16.3 million), Singler (1 yr, 1 million), Caldwell-Pope (1 yr 2.77 million with 2 more years of team options), Jerekbo (1 yr, 4.5 million) (total ~ 31 million)

for

Rondo (1 yr, 13 million), Bradley (S&T 4 yrs, 25 million), Bass (1 yr, 6.95 million), Anthony (1 yr, 3.8 million) (total ~ 30 million)

That trade seems to be fairly reasonable for both team.  Boston gets a lot younger and Detroit gets a much better fit for its roster.  Other players and picks of course can be added, but I do think that is a pretty solid trade on the hole (depending on just how much you value Monroe of course). 
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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2014, 05:16:50 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo.

Thing is, what's Detroit gonna do with Brandon Jennings if they make a trade for Rondo?  Is anybody gonna take on that contract?
Jennings' contract isn't all that bad just 2 years left 16.3 million total.  Still just 24 and not a horrible player (his 2PT% is bad, but he is a respectable 3PT and FT shooter). 

I would guess during free agency, a reasonable trade for Detroit and Boston would be something like this.

Monroe (S&T 4 yrs, 60 million), Jennings (2 yrs, 16.3 million), Singler (1 yr, 1 million), Caldwell-Pope (1 yr 2.77 million with 2 more years of team options), Jerekbo (1 yr, 4.5 million) (total ~ 31 million)

for

Rondo (1 yr, 13 million), Bradley (S&T 4 yrs, 25 million), Bass (1 yr, 6.95 million), Anthony (1 yr, 3.8 million) (total ~ 30 million)

That trade seems to be fairly reasonable for both team.  Boston gets a lot younger and Detroit gets a much better fit for its roster.  Other players and picks of course can be added, but I do think that is a pretty solid trade on the hole (depending on just how much you value Monroe of course).

Problem is, I don't think players who are signed and traded can be combined with other players.  I might be mistaken about that, but I thought that was how it worked.


If we're trading Rondo to the Pistons and the main prize back is Monroe (and not their 1st round pick this season), I'd want at least to unload Wallace.
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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2014, 05:36:23 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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We need to be buying low and selling high, not the reverse.  That's why I don't think it's a good idea to go after Drummond at this team, even if I'd like to see him on this team.

Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2014, 06:01:57 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo.

Thing is, what's Detroit gonna do with Brandon Jennings if they make a trade for Rondo?  Is anybody gonna take on that contract?
Jennings' contract isn't all that bad just 2 years left 16.3 million total.  Still just 24 and not a horrible player (his 2PT% is bad, but he is a respectable 3PT and FT shooter). 

I would guess during free agency, a reasonable trade for Detroit and Boston would be something like this.

Monroe (S&T 4 yrs, 60 million), Jennings (2 yrs, 16.3 million), Singler (1 yr, 1 million), Caldwell-Pope (1 yr 2.77 million with 2 more years of team options), Jerekbo (1 yr, 4.5 million) (total ~ 31 million)

for

Rondo (1 yr, 13 million), Bradley (S&T 4 yrs, 25 million), Bass (1 yr, 6.95 million), Anthony (1 yr, 3.8 million) (total ~ 30 million)

That trade seems to be fairly reasonable for both team.  Boston gets a lot younger and Detroit gets a much better fit for its roster.  Other players and picks of course can be added, but I do think that is a pretty solid trade on the hole (depending on just how much you value Monroe of course).

Problem is, I don't think players who are signed and traded can be combined with other players.  I might be mistaken about that, but I thought that was how it worked.


If we're trading Rondo to the Pistons and the main prize back is Monroe (and not their 1st round pick this season), I'd want at least to unload Wallace.
It can be done in separate trades if necessary for trading purposes (i.e. Monroe for Rondo and Anthony, Bass for Jennings, Bradley for Singler, Jerekbo, Caldwell-Pope).  I can see wanting to move Wallace and he could obviously be added to the trade, I was just outlining a basic framework.
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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2014, 06:31:05 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo.

Thing is, what's Detroit gonna do with Brandon Jennings if they make a trade for Rondo?  Is anybody gonna take on that contract?
Jennings' contract isn't all that bad just 2 years left 16.3 million total.  Still just 24 and not a horrible player (his 2PT% is bad, but he is a respectable 3PT and FT shooter). 

I would guess during free agency, a reasonable trade for Detroit and Boston would be something like this.

Monroe (S&T 4 yrs, 60 million), Jennings (2 yrs, 16.3 million), Singler (1 yr, 1 million), Caldwell-Pope (1 yr 2.77 million with 2 more years of team options), Jerekbo (1 yr, 4.5 million) (total ~ 31 million)

for

Rondo (1 yr, 13 million), Bradley (S&T 4 yrs, 25 million), Bass (1 yr, 6.95 million), Anthony (1 yr, 3.8 million) (total ~ 30 million)

That trade seems to be fairly reasonable for both team.  Boston gets a lot younger and Detroit gets a much better fit for its roster.  Other players and picks of course can be added, but I do think that is a pretty solid trade on the hole (depending on just how much you value Monroe of course).

This might work in theory, but wouldn't that leave the celtics with a team on which three players (Drummond, Wallace, and Jennings) eat up approximately 66% of the total salary cap? ($41ish Million)

The celtics would have to fill out their roster (12 more spaces) using about $21 million.

And those three players are not all great. I see your point and it's attraction, but I am not sure this is the optimum use of salary space to get the best talent.
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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2014, 08:46:39 PM »

Offline cometboy

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I'm not trading Rondo for Monroe in any incarnation. Sorry, that's just not good value. I would do just about anything to get Drummond, but I'm not tading Rondo for Monroe. We shoud be able to swing Green for Monroe. No need to overpay using Rondo.

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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2014, 08:13:58 AM »

Offline Moranis

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If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo.

Thing is, what's Detroit gonna do with Brandon Jennings if they make a trade for Rondo?  Is anybody gonna take on that contract?
Jennings' contract isn't all that bad just 2 years left 16.3 million total.  Still just 24 and not a horrible player (his 2PT% is bad, but he is a respectable 3PT and FT shooter). 

I would guess during free agency, a reasonable trade for Detroit and Boston would be something like this.

Monroe (S&T 4 yrs, 60 million), Jennings (2 yrs, 16.3 million), Singler (1 yr, 1 million), Caldwell-Pope (1 yr 2.77 million with 2 more years of team options), Jerekbo (1 yr, 4.5 million) (total ~ 31 million)

for

Rondo (1 yr, 13 million), Bradley (S&T 4 yrs, 25 million), Bass (1 yr, 6.95 million), Anthony (1 yr, 3.8 million) (total ~ 30 million)

That trade seems to be fairly reasonable for both team.  Boston gets a lot younger and Detroit gets a much better fit for its roster.  Other players and picks of course can be added, but I do think that is a pretty solid trade on the hole (depending on just how much you value Monroe of course).

This might work in theory, but wouldn't that leave the celtics with a team on which three players (Drummond, Wallace, and Jennings) eat up approximately 66% of the total salary cap? ($41ish Million)

The celtics would have to fill out their roster (12 more spaces) using about $21 million.

And those three players are not all great. I see your point and it's attraction, but I am not sure this is the optimum use of salary space to get the best talent.
Boston would be over the cap in that situation, but not over the luxury tax.  Then as Wallace, Green, and Jennings come off the books, the team will have young players and draft picks galore.

So if that was the trade that was made Boston would look like this

PG - Jennings
SG - Caldwell-Pope, Babb, Johnson
SF - Green, Singler, Wallace
PF - Sullinger, Olynyk, Jerekbo
C - Monroe, Faverani

Plus #5, #18 and easily able to re-sign Bayless and Humphries.   Also, could still use the MLE for a better bench guard.  Not a great team, but I think a better start given Monroe's age as compared to Rondo's.  Team would also get another high pick in the 2015 draft and probably the 2016 draft (unless these young guys hit) and that is when there is cap space and presumably a lot of young talent (with all of the draft picks).  Sure that means another couple of seasons of not the best team out there, but I would feel really good about where that team is in the summer of 2016. 
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Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2014, 08:59:39 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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If there is a trade to be made with Detroit it revolves around Monroe and Rondo.

Thing is, what's Detroit gonna do with Brandon Jennings if they make a trade for Rondo?  Is anybody gonna take on that contract?
Jennings' contract isn't all that bad just 2 years left 16.3 million total.  Still just 24 and not a horrible player (his 2PT% is bad, but he is a respectable 3PT and FT shooter). 

I would guess during free agency, a reasonable trade for Detroit and Boston would be something like this.

Monroe (S&T 4 yrs, 60 million), Jennings (2 yrs, 16.3 million), Singler (1 yr, 1 million), Caldwell-Pope (1 yr 2.77 million with 2 more years of team options), Jerekbo (1 yr, 4.5 million) (total ~ 31 million)

for

Rondo (1 yr, 13 million), Bradley (S&T 4 yrs, 25 million), Bass (1 yr, 6.95 million), Anthony (1 yr, 3.8 million) (total ~ 30 million)

That trade seems to be fairly reasonable for both team.  Boston gets a lot younger and Detroit gets a much better fit for its roster.  Other players and picks of course can be added, but I do think that is a pretty solid trade on the hole (depending on just how much you value Monroe of course).

This might work in theory, but wouldn't that leave the celtics with a team on which three players (Drummond, Wallace, and Jennings) eat up approximately 66% of the total salary cap? ($41ish Million)

The celtics would have to fill out their roster (12 more spaces) using about $21 million.

And those three players are not all great. I see your point and it's attraction, but I am not sure this is the optimum use of salary space to get the best talent.
Boston would be over the cap in that situation, but not over the luxury tax.  Then as Wallace, Green, and Jennings come off the books, the team will have young players and draft picks galore.

So if that was the trade that was made Boston would look like this

PG - Jennings
SG - Caldwell-Pope, Babb, Johnson
SF - Green, Singler, Wallace
PF - Sullinger, Olynyk, Jerekbo
C - Monroe, Faverani

Plus #5, #18 and easily able to re-sign Bayless and Humphries.   Also, could still use the MLE for a better bench guard.  Not a great team, but I think a better start given Monroe's age as compared to Rondo's.  Team would also get another high pick in the 2015 draft and probably the 2016 draft (unless these young guys hit) and that is when there is cap space and presumably a lot of young talent (with all of the draft picks).  Sure that means another couple of seasons of not the best team out there, but I would feel really good about where that team is in the summer of 2016. 
none of your reasoning behind this trade is a selling point for it.  if anything, it supports the argument against it.

your best player is probably Monroe on that roster.  Monroe is a really a PF, not a center.  so we're again playing a PF out of position at center.  he also isn't that exceptional at anything except being tall.  not a lot of effort expended while he plays.  he's going to cost someone 14-16 mill per year when he signs his next contract simply because he's good at being tall.  he doesn't make his teammates any better when he's on the court.  he's not a draw for any top players to want to play with.
These are all things that Rondo offers a superior value for:
- elite passer and ballhandler-->can do everything at an elite level for a PG except his shooting. 
- draw for other players to want to join --> several of the top players have gone on record stating that
- next contract will be maybe 14-15 mill per year.
- plays with more effort and has shown the ability to put his stamp on a game, particularly in the playoffs.
- makes his teammates better when he's on the floor -- certainly on offense.  admittedly he wasn't engaged on D this past year but when playing with teammates that play hard, he puts in the effort.

as for the rest of the moves, you've made the team Detroit-east and going nowhere fast.  in your own words you're basing your optimism on some off the expected lottery picks through 2016 to pan out.  still no go-to scorer on the roster.  you're also counting on improving the team via free agency when the Green/Wallace deals expire but who'd want to come play with Jennings and Monroe?  not even Josh Smith would make that mistake again.

Re: How do the celtics get Drummond
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2014, 09:20:44 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Disagree about Monroe being a 4, Slam. At the 5, he can be hidden/be regulated to man defense on most teams' weakest offensive player, and he still scores at about the same rate and efficiency as he does at the 5. Plus at the 5, it's more likely that the rest of the lineup has the floor spacing he needs to score in the paint. Until his help defense and ability to read and defend the pick and roll improves, the 4 is a negative spot for him, and that doesn't even touch his inability to defend mobile floor spacers.

And offensively, his passing, rebounding, and scoring ability as a 5 are much more useful if he has shooters around him.

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