Author Topic: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'  (Read 10460 times)

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Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2014, 05:12:17 PM »

Offline Timdawgg

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The next Ray Allen could be in this draft.  What separates Ray from almost every NBA player is his work ethic.  A lot of guys are naturally gifted shooters, but how many of them put in the time like Ray Allen?  Danny's job is to find him in the drat.

The next KG probably hasn't been born yet.

Thon Maker.

Agreed. The kid so much reminds me of KG.

Will be interesting to see how he continues to develop.

Yup. Every one forgets that KG was in the 3pt shooting contest in HS. KG had a decent stroke from deep, but he focused on post moves and the mid range. Which is what I suspect Thon Maker will continue to do.

Agreed.

The clips on Thon show such a resemblance to a young KG...I just hope his handlers are bringing him up the right way.

It would be awesome to see another KG in the league in a few years.

Wow he is a KG clone...All of his moves in the city league hoops video look just like KG's.... Amazing.
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Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2014, 05:21:42 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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I like the OP's question, but not necessarily the premise that the skillsets have to be the same.

I think we need a borderline All-Star player to join Rondo to attract the big fish a la Allen enticing Garnett.

One borderline All-Star, who could be had on the cheap is Josh Smith. The Pistons got him and tried to force him into the 3 slot, which was a big mistake (round peg, square hole). He is being paid far too much $$$ for being played out of position.

Let's give the Pistons the 3 that they need in Green and Joel Anthony's expiring. They want to unload Smith so bad, I don't even think they require a pick.

Once we have Josh Smith, the Big Fish is easier to attract, and his name is Carmelo. Landing him is the tough part and will take at least our lottery pick this year and perhaps two other firsts from our stockpile, Sully, Bradley S&T'd, Wallace and Bass.

We keep our 17th pick for the 2 guard that we need.

Rondo/Pressey/Lin
17th/Babb/Lin
Melo/Johnson
Smith/Olynyk
Asik/Fav

I think that lineup has a  4-5 year window to compete.

Can we use the TPE and Bogans to get Asik/Lin before we got Melo?


Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2014, 05:21:44 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I'd say that Joakim Noah and perhaps Klay Thompson resemble KG and Ray Ray.

Too bad it's next to impossible to get either.

Joakim reminds me of the fiery, defensive-minded leader that KG is.

Klay Thompson is still developing, but at his rate he will be a great shooter one day. Smooth stroke from the kid. Smooth player.

I don't know about Klay.

I have mixed feelings with Klay, because I think he is an excellent shooter. But that's it. If you shut down his shooting, what else does he really have? Hes an okay passer and can make the unselfish pass, but there are only so comparisons to Ray.

Seattle/Bucks Ray was a MONSTER. Klay doesn't have half the ball handling, finishing, or even the offensive repertoire that Allen had.

Allen/Pierce/KG in their primes were superstars in the league.

Klay isn't anywhere near that level.

I like the OP's question, but not necessarily the premise that the skillsets have to be the same.

I think we need a borderline All-Star player to join Rondo to attract the big fish a la Allen enticing Garnett.

One borderline All-Star, who could be had on the cheap is Josh Smith. The Pistons got him and tried to force him into the 3 slot, which was a big mistake (round peg, square hole). He is being paid far too much $$$ for being played out of position.

Let's give the Pistons the 3 that they need in Green and Joel Anthony's expiring. They want to unload Smith so bad, I don't even think they require a pick.

Once we have Josh Smith, the Big Fish is easier to attract, and his name is Carmelo. Landing him is the tough part and will take at least our lottery pick this year and perhaps two other firsts from our stockpile, Sully, Bradley S&T'd, Wallace and Bass.

We keep our 17th pick for the 2 guard that we need.

Rondo/Pressey/Lin
17th/Babb/Lin
Melo/Johnson
Smith/Olynyk
Asik/Fav

I think that lineup has a  4-5 year window to compete.

Can we use the TPE and Bogans to get Asik/Lin before we got Melo?

I would rather try to trade for Love. Bring in Asik, and try to find a disgruntled Allstar that doesn't want to be with their team. Let Green be our 3rd offensive option, which he has shown to thrive in.
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Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2014, 05:30:16 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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It's probably a more practical approach to identify the next KG and Ray while they're still potentially attainable via trade or through the draft.

KG- Thon Maker (draft)
Pierce- Jabari Parker (draft)
Allen- McLemore (trade)

As for McLemore, he struggled his first year, but he is still very young (just turned 21) and has the athleticism a young Ray had.

And just to add another name...I can easily see Okafor as a Duncan clone with his skill set, size, length, and overall fundamentals.

Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2014, 05:32:16 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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It's probably a more practical approach to identify the next KG and Ray while they're still potentially attainable via trade or through the draft.

KG- Thon Maker (draft)
Pierce- Jabari Parker (draft)
Allen- McLemore (trade)

As for McLemore, he struggled his first year, but he is still very young (just turned 21) and has the athleticism a young Ray had.

And just to add another name...I can easily see Okafor as a Duncan clone with his skill set, size, length, and overall fundamentals.

Anthony Davis reminds me more of a Duncan clone if anything.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2014, 05:38:31 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Also - with KG/Joakim/Thon - SO MUCH goes into a player's essence as far as making them hungry.

KG suffered in Minny those years...without much help....that vid with him and John Thompson was PRICELESS. Those years in Minny made KG a bitter/hungry man and he took it out on the NBA while in BOS. :)

Joakim? Well, he's suffered, too.....2 lost years with DRose....so he's known some loss, there.

Thon? As talented as he is/will be - he will need some seasoning, just like KG/Joakim.

As for Klay Thompson, I agree with what you stated, Monkhouse, but give the kid a  few years.

Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2014, 05:42:07 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think Eric Snowden is the next Ray, he betrayed his country, Ray betrayed his team.

Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2014, 05:50:32 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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It's probably a more practical approach to identify the next KG and Ray while they're still potentially attainable via trade or through the draft.

KG- Thon Maker (draft)
Pierce- Jabari Parker (draft)
Allen- McLemore (trade)

As for McLemore, he struggled his first year, but he is still very young (just turned 21) and has the athleticism a young Ray had.

And just to add another name...I can easily see Okafor as a Duncan clone with his skill set, size, length, and overall fundamentals.

Anthony Davis reminds me more of a Duncan clone if anything.

Not me. Davis is an athletic monster. Duncan never had that elite athleticism.


Note the footwork and skill without that Davis type athleticism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDt3rClC1vU

Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2014, 06:28:06 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'm considerably more interested in identifying the next Paul Pierce.
But I mean... that's basically what Rondo is.  We already have that slot filled...   All-star level talent without a superstar leader (KG) and an equal (Ray).
No, not really. Paul Pierce was a go-to guy who needed the right type of help.  Rondo is the right type of help who needs a go-to guy. See the difference?
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Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2014, 06:54:50 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Whoever the next KG or Allen are certainly won't be available in a trade this offseason.

Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2014, 06:59:23 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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Ray Allen was coming off an ankle injury that lowered his value somewhat and he was also 32 years old as people have mentioned. That's why he was available for what some may consider a low price. I tend to think regardless of the perceived weakness of that draft, it was a fair trade. It was a real possibility at the time that he wouldn't age as gracefully as he ended up doing.

Also, Ray Allen was a much more complete player than Thompson is at this point. I think some Boston fans forget how athletic and versatile he was when he was younger because he lost some parts of that with old age (you could still see it in flashes though). I'm not badmouthing Thompson, just reaffirming how good Ray was.

The closest parallel to Garnett is Davis in terms of big men with that level of impact on the game. There isn't really another big man that is close. The other big names right now are on a tier below, like Cousins, Aldridge, and Love. Unfortunately that's just how rare it is for someone to come into the world that tall and still possess elite athleticism and coordination. From that era there really was just Duncan, Shaq, and Garnett whose ability was at that special level (Nowitzki and Gasol are somewhere behind them in the next tier).

OK, so we established these are special players who rarely become available. Does that mean we shouldn't pursue stars on that second tier? It's a tough question, because you don't know for sure who is going to be available, and they might not even come. Garnett almost didn't come, after all. LeBron didn't go to a lot of teams lining up with that hope.

Personally I don't see the Celtics being able to make a quick turnaround a la 2007. I don't view Rondo as being on the same level Pierce was and he doesn't seem like a guy superstars are clamoring to play with, unless it's Rondo going to THEIR team. The "close friends" we DO hear about like Josh Smith are on the lower rung of star. Put it this way, Rondo and Smith trading texts to team up does not exactly bring up memories of LeBron setting up the three-way Skype conference with Bosh and Wade.

It's a painful thought to imagine the Celtics best option might be to continue rebuilding a year or two but it may be the most prudent course of action.

Oh, here's another situational difference between Pierce and Rondo: At age 28 (2006 offseason) Pierce signed an extension with the Celtics even though they had just finished a 33-49 season and the second best player on the team was a 21 year-old Al Jefferson. Rondo is in a similar situation this offseason but the CBA dictates he wait until next year for the maximum possible extension. This means the Celtics don't get a grace period where their star pouts (as Pierce did) but they are free to not make any desperate "win-now" moves.






Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2014, 07:27:35 PM »

Offline moiso

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I like the OP's question, but not necessarily the premise that the skillsets have to be the same.

I think we need a borderline All-Star player to join Rondo to attract the big fish a la Allen enticing Garnett.

One borderline All-Star, who could be had on the cheap is Josh Smith. The Pistons got him and tried to force him into the 3 slot, which was a big mistake (round peg, square hole). He is being paid far too much $$$ for being played out of position.

Let's give the Pistons the 3 that they need in Green and Joel Anthony's expiring. They want to unload Smith so bad, I don't even think they require a pick.

Once we have Josh Smith, the Big Fish is easier to attract, and his name is Carmelo. Landing him is the tough part and will take at least our lottery pick this year and perhaps two other firsts from our stockpile, Sully, Bradley S&T'd, Wallace and Bass.

We keep our 17th pick for the 2 guard that we need.

Rondo/Pressey/Lin
17th/Babb/Lin
Melo/Johnson
Smith/Olynyk
Asik/Fav

I think that lineup has a  4-5 year window to compete.

Can we use the TPE and Bogans to get Asik/Lin before we got Melo?
Except then we would have 2 star power forwards.  I think Melo is going to be more and more unable to guard 3's as time goes on.  I don't like the Love and Smith idea either, as he would also be the primary 4.  I don't want Smith but if I had him I wouldn't crowd him out of the 4 with another allstar at that position.

Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2014, 07:47:04 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Ray Allen was coming off an ankle injury that lowered his value somewhat and he was also 32 years old as people have mentioned. That's why he was available for what some may consider a low price. I tend to think regardless of the perceived weakness of that draft, it was a fair trade. It was a real possibility at the time that he wouldn't age as gracefully as he ended up doing.

I recall hearing that part of the reason they moved Allen was because the Sonics felt he would stunt Durant's growth as he would be taking the most shots and the offense run through him.


Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2014, 07:51:20 PM »

Offline JBcat

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If the Hornets and Thunder were willing trade partners I would empty all our assets, picks, and young players through 2018 maybe longer for Davis and Durant while keeping Rondo, and pick up the role players through free agency.

Re: Identifying the next 'KG' and 'Ray'
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2014, 07:56:07 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I'm considerably more interested in identifying the next Paul Pierce.
But I mean... that's basically what Rondo is.  We already have that slot filled...   All-star level talent without a superstar leader (KG) and an equal (Ray).
No, not really. Paul Pierce was a go-to guy who needed the right type of help.  Rondo is the right type of help who needs a go-to guy. See the difference?

  Sure, when "the right type of help" is a player close to his level and another player that's significantly better than him. Give that to Rondo and we'll be golden.