Author Topic: Jeff Green "eminently available"  (Read 7916 times)

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Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2014, 10:17:45 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I don't think Green is available in a pure salary dump for expiring junk, but it may be that Ainge is willing to accept a likely late first from a team with playoff hopes as the minimum return for Green.
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Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2014, 10:18:26 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Please let Jeff green go!  He had his cance this year to do something and he did Jack!  We need player who want to win on this team every game.
Rondo and Sullinger also had their "cance" this year, and they arguably did less than Green.
How so? Especially in regards to Sully.

Sully didn't impress me much this year. I think he's extremely overrated on these boards. If you asked me who has the higher potential ceiling between Sully and KO I would say KO.

Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2014, 10:23:34 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Please let Jeff green go!  He had his cance this year to do something and he did Jack!  We need player who want to win on this team every game.
Rondo and Sullinger also had their "cance" this year, and they arguably did less than Green.
How so? Especially in regards to Sully.
How so what? Sullinger decidedly did less for the team than Green this season, but people here tend not to judge him as harshly (or at all, frankly), because he's young.
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Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 10:30:20 AM »

Offline cltc5

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Please let Jeff green go!  He had his cance this year to do something and he did Jack!  We need player who want to win on this team every game.
Rondo and Sullinger also had their "cance" this year, and they arguably did less than Green.

oh are you a part of the spelling police force now?  You're joking right.  Both sully and  rondo were hurt through the year.  Try again.

Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2014, 10:59:03 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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How so what? Sullinger decidedly did less for the team than Green this season, but people here tend not to judge him as harshly (or at all, frankly), because he's young.


Jared Sullinger:

3.9 WS, 5.9 EWA, 16.4 PER

Jeff Green:

3.3 WS, 3.7 EWA, 13.1 PER


Sullinger had a bigger impact, despite playing fewer minutes and playing fewer games.

It's pretty hard to support the argument that Green did more for the team than Sullinger did this season, unless you only care about point totals.
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Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2014, 11:48:22 AM »

Offline chambers

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Please let Jeff green go!  He had his cance this year to do something and he did Jack!  We need player who want to win on this team every game.
Rondo and Sullinger also had their "cance" this year, and they arguably did less than Green.
How so? Especially in regards to Sully.
How so what? Sullinger decidedly did less for the team than Green this season, but people here tend not to judge him as harshly (or at all, frankly), because he's young.

That's completely ridiculous. Sully was injured and still produced way better play per minutes. He's also a sophomore.
Rondo had a slight injury that he was coming back from if you remember?
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Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2014, 11:51:29 AM »

Offline gpap

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Translation: Someone please take Jeff Green of our hands.

We'll even toss in a couple of the Celtics dancers

Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2014, 11:52:37 AM »

Offline gpap

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My hope would be Green to Cavs in a sign-and-trade for Deng.

If that happens and the Cs make a move for Asik (Bogans + #17). Ron Adams would be reunited with two of his former Bulls. Along with resigning AB the Cs would be putting together a great defensive team.

Add this hypothetical trade and Cs become interesting.

Cs trade     #5 Marcus Smart, Bass,

Magic trade #11, Afflalo  (draft BPA likely a wing Saric, McDermott, Stauskas or Hood)

2015 Cetics (a solid playoff team prob good enough for 3rd in east)

PG  Rondo
SG  Afflalo
SF  Deng
PF  Sully
C    Asik

6th   AB
7th   KO
8th   Wallace
9th   Mcdermott
10th Anthony
11th Favorani
12th Pressey
13th Johnson

I dig that team.

Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2014, 12:14:30 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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It's pretty hard to support the argument that Green did more for the team than Sullinger did this season, unless you only care about point totals.
Or defense. There's also ability to stay on the court, game-winning shots, three-point shooting, etc.

We can, of course, also throw advanced stats at each other until the cows come home. For example, did you know  that Sullinger has the worst PER differential than anyone on the team who's not a rookie or Gerald Wallace (a -3 PER when compared to direct opponent)?
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2014, 12:58:48 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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It's pretty hard to support the argument that Green did more for the team than Sullinger did this season, unless you only care about point totals.
Or defense. There's also ability to stay on the court, game-winning shots, three-point shooting, etc.

We can, of course, also throw advanced stats at each other until the cows come home. For example, did you know  that Sullinger has the worst PER differential than anyone on the team who's not a rookie or Gerald Wallace (a -3 PER when compared to direct opponent)?


I've never been particularly impressed with Jeff Green's defense.  His ability to stay on the court means little to me because he doesn't consistently do that much when he's on the court.  The game winning shots mean even less because the Celtics were one of the very worst "clutch" teams in the league this year, and overall had an awful record. 

Jeff Green's 'prowess' hitting game winning shots obviously didn't make a large impact.

Not to mention that I can recall quite a few "clutch" three pointers that Sullinger hit late in games to keep the Celtics within striking distance, if not actually capturing the lead.

The stat about PER differential is an interesting one, but I'd want to know more about the context.  Is that just comparing starting PFs?  Cs?  Is it specifically counting plays when Sullinger was directly guarding somebody?

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Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2014, 01:55:22 PM »

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It's pretty hard to support the argument that Green did more for the team than Sullinger did this season, unless you only care about point totals.
Or defense. There's also ability to stay on the court, game-winning shots, three-point shooting, etc.

We can, of course, also throw advanced stats at each other until the cows come home. For example, did you know  that Sullinger has the worst PER differential than anyone on the team who's not a rookie or Gerald Wallace (a -3 PER when compared to direct opponent)?


I've never been particularly impressed with Jeff Green's defense.  His ability to stay on the court means little to me because he doesn't consistently do that much when he's on the court.  The game winning shots mean even less because the Celtics were one of the very worst "clutch" teams in the league this year, and overall had an awful record. 

Jeff Green's 'prowess' hitting game winning shots obviously didn't make a large impact.

Not to mention that I can recall quite a few "clutch" three pointers that Sullinger hit late in games to keep the Celtics within striking distance, if not actually capturing the lead.

The stat about PER differential is an interesting one, but I'd want to know more about the context.  Is that just comparing starting PFs?  Cs?  Is it specifically counting plays when Sullinger was directly guarding somebody?

It's not good for Sullinger because he didn't always defend the same position he is listed at in lineup. So stats not accurate. Happens a lot on teams where big man matchups are interchangeable.

It doesn't identify which player Sully was defending. Just judges him against the opposite number on the other team. So Sully could be playing the C position according to 82games.com but actually defending the PF position and his opp PER stat is getting pummeled because Bass / Olynyk / Humphries are getting toasted. Or vice versa (playing PF in lineup but defending C). So stats not accurate.

Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2014, 07:53:43 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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Please let Jeff green go!  He had his cance this year to do something and he did Jack!  We need player who want to win on this team every game.
Rondo and Sullinger also had their "cance" this year, and they arguably did less than Green.
How so? Especially in regards to Sully.
How so what? Sullinger decidedly did less for the team than Green this season, but people here tend not to judge him as harshly (or at all, frankly), because he's young.
I expected something less vague than "did less". What makes you think this?

Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2014, 07:58:54 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Please let Jeff green go!  He had his cance this year to do something and he did Jack!  We need player who want to win on this team every game.
Rondo and Sullinger also had their "cance" this year, and they arguably did less than Green.

  Rondo's had his "cance" since 2009 or so and he's done just fine.

Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2014, 07:59:33 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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It's pretty hard to support the argument that Green did more for the team than Sullinger did this season, unless you only care about point totals.
Or defense. There's also ability to stay on the court, game-winning shots, three-point shooting, etc.

We can, of course, also throw advanced stats at each other until the cows come home. For example, did you know  that Sullinger has the worst PER differential than anyone on the team who's not a rookie or Gerald Wallace (a -3 PER when compared to direct opponent)?


I've never been particularly impressed with Jeff Green's defense.  His ability to stay on the court means little to me because he doesn't consistently do that much when he's on the court.  The game winning shots mean even less because the Celtics were one of the very worst "clutch" teams in the league this year, and overall had an awful record. 

Jeff Green's 'prowess' hitting game winning shots obviously didn't make a large impact.

Not to mention that I can recall quite a few "clutch" three pointers that Sullinger hit late in games to keep the Celtics within striking distance, if not actually capturing the lead.

The stat about PER differential is an interesting one, but I'd want to know more about the context.  Is that just comparing starting PFs?  Cs?  Is it specifically counting plays when Sullinger was directly guarding somebody?

Staying on the court does matter. Green's reliable while Sullinger can shaky at times. Green is also a versatile defender.

Re: Jeff Green "eminently available"
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2014, 08:15:23 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Well, one advanced stat is as good as another, I guess.   How many folks know and have a good understanding of which factors go into PER or WS and how they are weighted?

For what it is worth, I think an interesting, rather simple stat that tracks offensive effectiveness is simply how many points a player either scored or assisted per touch of the ball.   Not intended to be a perfect stat (doesn't gauge the value of off-ball actions such as setting a great screen).  But generally does a pretty good job of identifying players the defense should probably pay attention to.

Of our high-minute, rotation players (all these guys got over 1900 touches.  No other of our players still on roster got over 1000), here are the numbers:


Jeff Green      .420 points/touch
Avery Bradley   .390
Rajon Rondo     .377
Jared Bayless   .364
Brandon Bass    .356
Jared Sullinger .349
Kelly Olynyk    .325
Phil Pressey    .289
Kris Humphries  .280


So, there's that.


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