A Trade Down I Would Consider

[Celtics18]

I appreciate the effort, Pho, but I am not a fan of this proposal.  Nik Vucevic, while he puts up some good numbers, doesn't do much for me.  To my knowledge, he's not much of a rim protector or defender in general. 

The point of getting a center is to get somebody who can anchor the defense.  I don't think Vucevic is that guy.

He was part of a very good defensive team in Philadelphia.  I don't think it's fair to say at his point that he can't be a defensive anchor.  He's still pretty young.  He's not a stupendous shot blocker, but neither are Marc Gasoline or Joakim Noah.  He has been at least a decent defender every season so far in his career -- despite being on an awful Orlando team the last two years.

I don't think you're gonna do much better than Vucevic by trading down from #5, at least as far as young big men go.

If you want to get a player with real size and productivity at the center spot without giving up a kings ransom in assets or spending huge in free agency, I think it'd be hard to do better.

To be honest, I don't know enough about Vucevic to make a completely well-informed assessment.  When I've seen him play, though, I don't remember being impressed with his defensive capabilities.  On the other hand, he does have good size, good length, appears to move fairly well, and like you say, he's been putting up some very good numbers since becoming a pro.

If your proposed trade happened, I wouldn't be devastated, but I do think it's an awfully risky return for both the #5 and the #17 pick in this year's draft. 

TP for the idea.  While I'm not completely sold, it does seem to have some merit.  The one thing that I'm desperate for this off-season is a real center.  If Danny doesn't get us one of those (even if that just means Jusuf Nurkic with the 17th), I feel like he will have done the team and the fans a disservice. 

[Moranis]

I would consider this trade if there was another trade Danny thought he could make that could really put Boston on the next level as this trade alone isn't good enough to make Boston a real contender.  Not sure what that trade would be of course, but at least a team like below would be a solid playoff team.

PG - Rondo, Bayless, Pressey
SG - Afflalo, Stauskas/Young/Harris (or some other rookie wing from #12)
SF - Green, Wallace
PF - Sullinger, Olynyk, Bass
C - Vucevic, Humphries, Anthony

I don't think you re-sign Bradley in that situation, but bringing back both Humphries and Bayless makes sense.  Maybe Pierce signs as a free agent to add some nastiness to the bench, but even then the team is still lacking the real go to scorer that is needed to be a real contender. 

I think it is a trade Boston would consider, thought I'm not sure Orlando would even offer it as they like Afflalo and Vucevic.

[Who]

Not a fan.

Vucevic is not a quality starting center. He would be a backup center on most playoff teams due to his defensive inadequacies. I can make my peace with a bad defensive center if he is a great offensive player but Vucevic only provides role player level offense. A vastly overrated player.

I like Afflalo but no way am I giving up a #5-#7 lottery pick for him. Another guy who I'd be very doubtful about maintaining his performance levels from this season when moved onto a playoff team. Luke Vucevic, Afflalo has been padding his stats on a lousy team.

[sofutomygaha]

I actually really like this idea. Vucevic is 23 years old, and what he's done at age 21-23 has been very impressive, even though his game is nowhere near complete. I would rather add him to our team than any one of the pool consisting of Vonleh, Gordon, Smart, and Randle. I'd also be very happy to upgrade our other pick and to add Aaron Afflalo.

[Celtics18]

Not a fan.

Vucevic is not a quality starting center. He would be a backup center on most playoff teams due to his defensive inadequacies. I can make my peace with a bad defensive center if he is a great offensive player but Vucevic only provides role player level offense. A vastly overrated player.

I like Afflalo but no way am I giving up a #5-#7 lottery pick for him. Another guy who I'd be very doubtful about maintaining his performance levels from this season when moved onto a playoff team. Luke Vucevic, Afflalo has been padding his stats on a lousy team.

That was my initial thought as well (to be honest, probably influenced by something you've written in the past), but the kid's only twenty-three.  He's got a good body, nice length, and moves around the court fairly well. 

Is it really out of the question that he could turn himself into a decent to good defensive center in the right situation?

[Who]

Not a fan.

Vucevic is not a quality starting center. He would be a backup center on most playoff teams due to his defensive inadequacies. I can make my peace with a bad defensive center if he is a great offensive player but Vucevic only provides role player level offense. A vastly overrated player.

I like Afflalo but no way am I giving up a #5-#7 lottery pick for him. Another guy who I'd be very doubtful about maintaining his performance levels from this season when moved onto a playoff team. Luke Vucevic, Afflalo has been padding his stats on a lousy team.

That was my initial thought as well (to be honest, probably influenced by something you've written in the past), but the kid's only twenty-three.  He's got a good body, nice length, and moves around the court fairly well. 

Is it really out of the question that he could turn himself into a decent to good defensive center in the right situation?

No, not out of the question at all. Vucevic certainly could become a solid to good defensive player down the road.

[Who]

I didn't think enough about the Nuggets (#12) pick. That would be a pretty good pick. Looks like Tyler Ennis will be available there. Maybe Nurkic. Probably Capela.

I don't feel great about Randle, Vonleh or Gordon. All look risky / discouraging to me. On second thought, I would be happy to trade down (to Ennis or Nurkic/Capela) if those were the best talent available + pick up Vucevic / Afflalo. 

I do really like Marcus Smart at #5 though. Tough to pass on Smart. I think he's going to be a much better pro than he was college player. The faster pace and more open NBA game is going to suit him very well.

[Moranis]

Not a fan.

Vucevic is not a quality starting center. He would be a backup center on most playoff teams due to his defensive inadequacies. I can make my peace with a bad defensive center if he is a great offensive player but Vucevic only provides role player level offense. A vastly overrated player.

I like Afflalo but no way am I giving up a #5-#7 lottery pick for him. Another guy who I'd be very doubtful about maintaining his performance levels from this season when moved onto a playoff team. Luke Vucevic, Afflalo has been padding his stats on a lousy team.

That was my initial thought as well (to be honest, probably influenced by something you've written in the past), but the kid's only twenty-three.  He's got a good body, nice length, and moves around the court fairly well. 

Is it really out of the question that he could turn himself into a decent to good defensive center in the right situation?

No, not out of the question at all. Vucevic certainly could become a solid to good defensive player down the road.

He has improved all 3 of his years in the league.  He is an excellent rebounder, an ok passer and a good foul shooter (he made tremendous strides in that regard this past year).  Not a great shot blocker, but he has nice hands getting over a steal a game this past year.  I also think you are exaggerating how poor a defender he is.  He is on bad teams with no real strong defenders in the backcourts so he has to make up a lot of ground.  I believe if he was on a better team with better defenders, his so called defensive inefficiencies wouldn't be so glaring. 

I'd take 14/11 from my third year center any day of the week. 

[PhoSita]

The trade makes sense if:

1) You're trying to win now, with Rondo.

Yeah, this whole concept of moving down kind of presumes that.  That's not really my preferred strategy, but I've heard so much recently about people wanting to trade down out of the top 5 in this draft that I've been racking my brain trying to come up with a realistic and actually palatable scenario for that.

[gpap]

I would do this in a minute but doubt Orlando would do this

Yeah same here. It's a good idea, but Vucevic and Afflalo were the rewards for Orlando from the Dwight Howard trade.

They'd be foolish to deal the both of them (although I could see Afflalo being dealt for a draft pick, but not Vucevic. Young talented centers are a rare breed in the NBA.)

[gpap]

I think Afflalo is overrated in this forum and trading for him would be buying high on a player who likely had a career year this season on a bad team.

Vucevic is not the rim protector that Ainge is reportedly looking for.  He does have the ability to hit a jump shot, so he fits into my belief that you usually need a big man to be either a rim protector or a floor spreader.

I think they end up being the players you trade picks for if you want to put yourself on the dreaded treadmill of mediocrity.

Disagree. Afflalo is exactly the type of guard the Celts need right now. Someone who can shoot the ball on command. Rondo is not a shooter and Bradley is very streaky.

As for Vucevic, I think if DA could pull what the OP suggested, he would do it in a heartbeat and rightfully so

From what I've seen, Vucevic is a very talented center who's already proven he can play in the NBA and still has alot of upside. Not many centers like him around.

If anyone says no to this deal, it's Orlando, not Boston.

[LooseCannon]

He has been at least a decent defender every season so far in his career -- despite being on an awful Orlando team the last two years.

I've never seen Vucevic described as a decent defender.  He's perceived as a guy with a massive lack of athleticism (compare his 25" vertical leap to Jared Sullinger's 32") who doesn't block shots and is soft on his post defense.

[gpap]

Not a fan.

Vucevic is not a quality starting center. He would be a backup center on most playoff teams due to his defensive inadequacies. I can make my peace with a bad defensive center if he is a great offensive player but Vucevic only provides role player level offense. A vastly overrated player.

I like Afflalo but no way am I giving up a #5-#7 lottery pick for him. Another guy who I'd be very doubtful about maintaining his performance levels from this season when moved onto a playoff team. Luke Vucevic, Afflalo has been padding his stats on a lousy team.

Respectfully disagree. Vucevic is averaging almost a career double double in pts and rbs and last season racked up 14 and 11 per game.

Not sure I see anything in those numbers that would dictate he isn't anything more than a role player.

I am also not sure I buy the whole he was "just a good player on a bad team" argument.

If you have the talent and can play, then it shows both on the stat sheet and on the court regardless of what team you are on.

I mean Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett were also "good players on bad teams" before they were dealt to Boston.

[Evantime34]

I think Vucevic is exactly the type of player we need. I would probably want to flip Afflalo for a younger player or pick but I think if we can get Vucevic we should do it.

[PhoSita]

He has been at least a decent defender every season so far in his career -- despite being on an awful Orlando team the last two years.

I've never seen Vucevic described as a decent defender.  He's perceived as a guy with a massive lack of athleticism (compare his 25" vertical leap to Jared Sullinger's 32") who doesn't block shots and is soft on his post defense.

His defensive ratings don't bear out this idea that he's a poor defender (97, 105, 103).

No, he's not athletic at all, but he dominates the boards, he's tall and long, and he's difficult to push around inside.  Any defensive deficiencies he has now I think could be more than overcome as he gains more experience and is coached up by a good defensive coach. 

Plenty of players with Vucevic's physical profile have been very, very good defenders.  It's not all about shot blocking and vertical.  Not at the center position.