Author Topic: A Trade Down I Would Consider  (Read 8650 times)

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A Trade Down I Would Consider
« on: April 23, 2014, 10:29:23 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Premise:
Orlando takes Joel Embiid with their top pick, and the Celtics are in a position to draft Exum or Smart.

Orlando makes an offer for the Celtics' two first round picks (#5 and #17):

Nikola Vucevic
Arron Afflalo
Denver 2014 1st (#12)


The resulting Celtics team would not be a contender, but it might be good enough to convince Rondo to stick around, and there'd still be plenty of flexibility for future moves.

Neither Afflalo nor Vucevic are stars, but they are solid sub-stars.  Vucevic is young, and he's one of the best rebounders in the NBA.  Still, I can't help feeling that this would be aiming for the middle to some extent.  Nevertheless, I'd consider it.

For Orlando, they get to draft a young point guard with star potential to put next to Oladipo, and they clear room for Embiid as the long term starting center.


I'm not really a fan of the idea of trading out of the top 10 when the team really desperately needs young star talent, but this is the sort of offer that would make me pause to consider.

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Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 10:37:40 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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What are the Celtics trading out to match salaries?
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Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 10:41:48 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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What are the Celtics trading out to match salaries?

Pierce trade exception covers both
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Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 10:47:26 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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What are the Celtics trading out to match salaries?

Pierce trade exception covers both

Would have to take place after the draft due to the luxury tax threshold constraint. Not impossible to pull off.

I think Orlando says no. I feel like they'd rather just use their second 1st rounder to either take Ennis, or try to figure out a way to move up to grab Smart, or find some other way to get Oladipo a mentor/replacement at PG.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 10:53:41 PM by Lucky17 »
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Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 10:56:37 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Premise:
Orlando takes Joel Embiid with their top pick, and the Celtics are in a position to draft Exum or Smart.

Orlando makes an offer for the Celtics' two first round picks (#5 and #17):

Nikola Vucevic
Arron Afflalo
Denver 2014 1st (#12)


The resulting Celtics team would not be a contender, but it might be good enough to convince Rondo to stick around, and there'd still be plenty of flexibility for future moves.

Neither Afflalo nor Vucevic are stars, but they are solid sub-stars.  Vucevic is young, and he's one of the best rebounders in the NBA.  Still, I can't help feeling that this would be aiming for the middle to some extent.  Nevertheless, I'd consider it.

For Orlando, they get to draft a young point guard with star potential to put next to Oladipo, and they clear room for Embiid as the long term starting center.


I'm not really a fan of the idea of trading out of the top 10 when the team really desperately needs young star talent, but this is the sort of offer that would make me pause to consider.

  Sometimes I think we should do something like get Aflalo (and a center), other times I think that too much is made of a few hot months in a fairly long career and he won't be what we expect. Shooting guards aren't that impressive, especially those who are available, in part because some of the better ones masquerade as point guards.

Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2014, 12:14:34 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I think Afflalo is overrated in this forum and trading for him would be buying high on a player who likely had a career year this season on a bad team.

Vucevic is not the rim protector that Ainge is reportedly looking for.  He does have the ability to hit a jump shot, so he fits into my belief that you usually need a big man to be either a rim protector or a floor spreader.

I think they end up being the players you trade picks for if you want to put yourself on the dreaded treadmill of mediocrity.
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Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2014, 12:21:18 AM »

Offline Lucky17

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I think Afflalo is overrated in this forum and trading for him would be buying high on a player who likely had a career year this season on a bad team.

Afflalo has increased his scoring every year of his seven year career. Every year, he's improved. I don't know how many other players in the league can say that.
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Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 12:47:38 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I think Afflalo is overrated in this forum and trading for him would be buying high on a player who likely had a career year this season on a bad team.

Afflalo has increased his scoring every year of his seven year career. Every year, he's improved. I don't know how many other players in the league can say that.

Well, then, go out and get him because he's on a pace to score 40ppg by the time he is 35.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2014, 01:38:27 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I appreciate the effort, Pho, but I am not a fan of this proposal.  Nik Vucevic, while he puts up some good numbers, doesn't do much for me.  To my knowledge, he's not much of a rim protector or defender in general. 

The point of getting a center is to get somebody who can anchor the defense.  I don't think Vucevic is that guy. 
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Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2014, 06:03:16 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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You would consider, hopefully DA won't.   We don't need to get older with AA, we are not one player away.   There is zero reason they would do this too, IMO.

Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2014, 07:10:24 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I appreciate the effort, Pho, but I am not a fan of this proposal.  Nik Vucevic, while he puts up some good numbers, doesn't do much for me.  To my knowledge, he's not much of a rim protector or defender in general. 

The point of getting a center is to get somebody who can anchor the defense.  I don't think Vucevic is that guy.

Agree with all this.    He is nice back up center .   I think he has pretty much reached his limit.  I think the game in the paint is tuffer than he is.   

Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2014, 07:18:41 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I appreciate the effort, Pho, but I am not a fan of this proposal.  Nik Vucevic, while he puts up some good numbers, doesn't do much for me.  To my knowledge, he's not much of a rim protector or defender in general. 

The point of getting a center is to get somebody who can anchor the defense.  I don't think Vucevic is that guy.


He was part of a very good defensive team in Philadelphia.  I don't think it's fair to say at his point that he can't be a defensive anchor.  He's still pretty young.  He's not a stupendous shot blocker, but neither are Marc Gasoline or Joakim Noah.  He has been at least a decent defender every season so far in his career -- despite being on an awful Orlando team the last two years.

I don't think you're gonna do much better than Vucevic by trading down from #5, at least as far as young big men go.

If you want to get a player with real size and productivity at the center spot without giving up a kings ransom in assets or spending huge in free agency, I think it'd be hard to do better.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 07:27:24 AM by PhoSita »
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Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2014, 07:23:29 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I appreciate the effort, Pho, but I am not a fan of this proposal.  Nik Vucevic, while he puts up some good numbers, doesn't do much for me.  To my knowledge, he's not much of a rim protector or defender in general. 

The point of getting a center is to get somebody who can anchor the defense.  I don't think Vucevic is that guy.

Agree with all this.    He is nice back up center .   I think he has pretty much reached his limit.  I think the game in the paint is tuffer than he is.

How many backup centers in the NBA are capable of averaging 13.5 pts and 11.5 reb over two full seasons of starting?  How many starters, in fact? At age 23?  Also, how is a player who dominates the boards not tough in the paint?

I'm sensing a lack of real familiarity with this player.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2014, 07:50:44 AM »

Offline Birdman

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I would do this in a minute but doubt Orlando would do this
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Re: A Trade Down I Would Consider
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2014, 08:34:25 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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The trade makes sense if:

1) You're trying to win now, with Rondo.
2) Both Afflalo and Vucevic will stay long term at reasonable money.
3) You're targeting someone at 12 that won't be there at 17.

I don't know enough about Vucevic to judge his game but he puts up good numbers and is young. If he has the potential to be a defensive star then it'd be worth it. Like, if you thought he could become a Marc Gasol/Hibbert-level of player as opposed to a softer type who can rebound and score a bit but will never be a good defensive player.

Otherwise, it's a fair deal but definitely more of a sideways move. My hope is that if they do make a move with their first pick this year, it'd be in a package for a star. Not sure if Vucevic has that potential, though he looks solid at least.