Author Topic: Say OKC gets booted , would they trade Westbrook for Rondo then ? and would you?  (Read 60990 times)

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Offline Endless Paradise

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How is Rondo going to magically make Ibaka better?  His main source of offense is from midrange jumpers off feeds from Westbrook, Jackson, or Durant and feeds right at the basket for a lay-up or dunk.  Is Rondo's presence suddenly going to add layers to his game, making him much stronger off the dribble and allow him to develop an actual post game?

Yeah, I'm just not buying it.

Offline BballTim

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How is Rondo going to magically make Ibaka better?  His main source of offense is from midrange jumpers off feeds from Westbrook, Jackson, or Durant and feeds right at the basket for a lay-up or dunk.  Is Rondo's presence suddenly going to add layers to his game, making him much stronger off the dribble and allow him to develop an actual post game?

Yeah, I'm just not buying it.

  I'd go with more layups and dunks and probably better passing and timing for those mid-range shots. Obviously he's not saying that Rondo's presence is going to make someone a better dribbler. More getting them better looks and easier shots. I'd buy it, because I've seen a lot of it over the years.

Offline bucknersrevenge

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How is Rondo going to magically make Ibaka better?  His main source of offense is from midrange jumpers off feeds from Westbrook, Jackson, or Durant and feeds right at the basket for a lay-up or dunk.  Is Rondo's presence suddenly going to add layers to his game, making him much stronger off the dribble and allow him to develop an actual post game?

Yeah, I'm just not buying it.

No. I agree Rondo won't add layers to his game. Ideally you would want someone with a more varied game so roster construction is an argument I buy for the way the team plays. I do however think that Rondo would get Ibaka MORE of the easier looks he's used to converting which would mean that Ibaka's man would have to occasionally ya know, worry about Ibaka too. And to be clear, I am saying that there are occasions when an open Ibaka 10footer is a better look than Westbrook taking a 1-dribble crossover pull-up from 3 with a hand in his face just because he made a jumper the last time down.

This comment just came from Courtney Lee after the last game:

"Russell Westbrook went 11-for-28 in a 105-111 Oklahoma City loss to the Memphis Grizzlies in Game 2.

The Grizzlies apparently prefer a high usage rate from Westbrook because it limits the number of opportunities Kevin Durant receives.

"We're fine with Westbrook taking shots, I mean, that's kinda what you want - the more shots he takes, the less Durant takes," said Courtney Lee."

Seriously?! 28 shots from your primary ballhandler?! That's just grody. And a number of which came with him dribbling down the floor and putting up a quick shot without even surveying the defense. Nothing makes team smile more than only having to play defense for literally 3 seconds.
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Offline D.o.s.

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Durant shot something like 2 and a half more shots when Westbrook was out this year. That's hardly the massive change you're suggesting.

But, of course, that would mean that we'd be pointing the finger at scott brooks instead of westbrook.
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Offline bucknersrevenge

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Durant shot something like 2 and a half more shots when Westbrook was out this year. That's hardly the massive change you're suggesting.

But, of course, that would mean that we'd be pointing the finger at scott brooks instead of westbrook.

Well just like the OKC fan said, replacing Westbrook with nobody doesn't make any situation better. And like he said, roster composition and offensive scheme has a lot to do with the problems. But since in this town we only hang banners for championships, I'll take Rondo over Westbrook. Guys like Westbrook will get you 60 wins during the regular season and a division crown. But when you start to face GOOD teams in the playoffs that are capable of making adjustments and the opportunities to fast break shrivel up, I want a point guard that can outthink his opponent. I want a guy that has been there before and knows how to get his guys in the right position when the game is on the line. I DON'T want a guy who's gonna come down and display a complete lack of poise by throwing up a quick shot with 20 seconds left on the shot clock.
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Offline D.o.s.

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For sure, that's why, for the fourth or fifth time, I'll repeat: I'd prefer to have a point guard like Rondo over Westbrook.

That's not a mutually exclusive sentiment from -- Rondo wouldn't make the Thunder better than they are with Westbrook.
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Offline lightspeed5

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rondo would let teams triple team durant.  its all about spacing the floor.

Offline Celtics18

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rondo would let teams triple team durant.  its all about spacing the floor.


Awesome.  Three guys on Durant, maybe one on Ibaka and one on Rondo.  Kendrick Perkins and Thabo Sefolosha would each average 50 a game. 
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Offline bucknersrevenge

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For sure, that's why, for the fourth or fifth time, I'll repeat: I'd prefer to have a point guard like Rondo over Westbrook.

That's not a mutually exclusive sentiment from -- Rondo wouldn't make the Thunder better than they are with Westbrook.

My bad. If you said that before I didn't catch it. Didn't go through the entire thread. Sounds like I agree with you then.
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Offline Moranis

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For sure, that's why, for the fourth or fifth time, I'll repeat: I'd prefer to have a point guard like Rondo over Westbrook.

That's not a mutually exclusive sentiment from -- Rondo wouldn't make the Thunder better than they are with Westbrook.
As your two statements go it really depends on what your team looks like.  Now sure if you have 3 future HOFers generally in their prime, you would want a PG like Rondo leading the way.  But if you are a team with 1 scorer and a bunch of defensive role players, then you absolutely need a PG more in the mold of Westbrook, Rose, Curry, etc.  If you are a team that is looking to rebuild and the PG is your best player, then again you would want a Westbrook/Rose/Curry type PG instead of the Rondo type PG.  Now optimally you would get a player that is the unique combination of both skill sets, of course Chris Paul is the only such player currently in the NBA (Deron Williams had a couple of seasons pre-injury where he looked like he could have been that player as well). 
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Offline BballTim

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For sure, that's why, for the fourth or fifth time, I'll repeat: I'd prefer to have a point guard like Rondo over Westbrook.

That's not a mutually exclusive sentiment from -- Rondo wouldn't make the Thunder better than they are with Westbrook.
As your two statements go it really depends on what your team looks like.  Now sure if you have 3 future HOFers generally in their prime, you would want a PG like Rondo leading the way.  But if you are a team with 1 scorer and a bunch of defensive role players, then you absolutely need a PG more in the mold of Westbrook, Rose, Curry, etc.  If you are a team that is looking to rebuild and the PG is your best player, then again you would want a Westbrook/Rose/Curry type PG instead of the Rondo type PG.  Now optimally you would get a player that is the unique combination of both skill sets, of course Chris Paul is the only such player currently in the NBA (Deron Williams had a couple of seasons pre-injury where he looked like he could have been that player as well).

  If you have 3 Hofers in their primes, you'd want Rondo. If you had 3 past their prime stars, 2 of which can't really create their own offense well, you still want Rondo. A big scorer, a decent scorer (efficient 15-16 ppg) and a couple of role players, probably a tossup. A rebuilding team where the pg is currently the best player, probably Rondo. A team where you have good defense and not good scoring, Westbrook.

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Not to dredge this topic back up again but 30 points tonight on 26 shots. 2 assists and 4 TOs and a bunch of ill-advised shots late with him forcing the issue as usual. No poise in this guy's game at all.
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Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Westbrook is talented, no doubt, but he hasn't exactly proven himself to be a clutch, big-time playoff performer (other than point totals), whereas Rondo has come up big time and again.
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Offline Moranis

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Westbrook is talented, no doubt, but he hasn't exactly proven himself to be a clutch, big-time playoff performer (other than point totals), whereas Rondo has come up big time and again.
then you aren't paying attention.  Against the Heat in the 2012 finals, Westbrook improved his season averages across the board in that series, upping his boards to 6.4, assists to 6.6, and points to 27.0.  All three fairly significant increases from his season averages that year. 
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Offline Eja117

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I've made the Westbrook/Rondo argument many times before, but some CliffsNotes:

-OKC needs Westbrook, or a scorer like Westbrook, in order to keep teams from smothering Durant. We saw it in the playoffs last year, and someone made it a point in this thread earlier, I believe: You put Rondo on that team, and there's no reason they're not going to rotate all of their best defenders onto KD, who will be forced to play all 48 minutes of every game because they're not scoring enough points without Westbrook.

-Rondo is great at many things, but his strengths don't lie on being a threat to score on every single possession. That's exactly what OKC's offense demands -- a pair of wings that demand absolute attention on every possession from 25 feet in. The fact that OKC's offense is still super basic is partially to blame here, but the idea that Rondo will make guys like Perkins, Butler and Ibaka better by getting them the ball is dumb. They're not great offensive players, they're never going to be great offensive players (Butler's good, but he's real old). 

I'm not sure which young players you're referring to that aren't being made better by Westbrook so much as they're not seeing the floor because the Thunder are trying to win a championship, so Scott Brookes is playing the players he knows are, you know, already good at basketball.
Yeah, I'm just not buyin it. Rotate all their best defenders onto KD? With Rondo on the floor? Go ahead. Try that. See how that works. Go ahead and put all your best defenders on KD. Because presumably you aren't doing that now.

OKC's offense is super basic (well who can blame them? Get the ball to KD and get out of the way, right?), and Rondo can't help that and can't make anyone like Ibaka better?  Not buyin it.

Brookes is playing guys that are already good at basketball? Because we all know how good Collison, Thabo,  and C Butler are.

Just not buyin it.


That is painfully obvious. However you've  yet to really explain your position beyond "well of course he would, he's rondo."
I'll keep trying as I have, but when I'm done do I also need to explain why Superman would beat Aquaman in a fight, even in the water?