Say OKC gets booted , would they trade Westbrook for Rondo then ? and would you?

[Endless Paradise]

It's definitely better for Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones to play with Rondo. A healthy Rondo is a better defender. Rondo also does very well against the Heat and Bulls.

It's better for Lamb and Jones to play with Rondo?  Based on what?  You realize they wouldn't even be playing with Rondo since Brooks refuses to play them anyway, right?

And why does it matter as it pertains to OKC if Rondo plays well against the Heat or Bulls?  The Thunder only see those two teams twice a season.

The simple fact of the matter is that the move OKC would make, if any, if they were bounced out of the playoffs early would be firing Scott Brooks.  It would make no kind of sense to retain Brooks while making an insane panic move like trading away a top 10 player who's only 25 years old just because of playoff disappointment.  They would easily fire Brooks before getting rid of Westbrook.

Did you just ask why it would be better for Lamb and Jones to play with Rondo? Really?

Yes, so are you going to bother explaining?  Because otherwise it's a baseless statement.  Jones and Lamb have barely even played with Westbrook, so it's not like you've provided any substantial reasons based on history.  And no, "Rondo is a pass first guard, so he's best suited for those guys" doesn't mean anything if that's the route you're going.

[Eja117]

It's definitely better for Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones to play with Rondo. A healthy Rondo is a better defender. Rondo also does very well against the Heat and Bulls.

It's better for Lamb and Jones to play with Rondo?  Based on what?  You realize they wouldn't even be playing with Rondo since Brooks refuses to play them anyway, right?

And why does it matter as it pertains to OKC if Rondo plays well against the Heat or Bulls?  The Thunder only see those two teams twice a season.

The simple fact of the matter is that the move OKC would make, if any, if they were bounced out of the playoffs early would be firing Scott Brooks.  It would make no kind of sense to retain Brooks while making an insane panic move like trading away a top 10 player who's only 25 years old just because of playoff disappointment.  They would easily fire Brooks before getting rid of Westbrook.

Did you just ask why it would be better for Lamb and Jones to play with Rondo? Really?

Yes, so are you going to bother explaining?  Because otherwise it's a baseless statement.  Jones and Lamb have barely even played with Westbrook, so it's not like you've provided any substantial reasons based on history.  And no, "Rondo is a pass first guard, so he's best suited for those guys" doesn't mean anything if that's the route you're going.

Actually it does. You see there's this thing called an assist. An assist is when a player (often the point guard) passes to a player that then scores. It is a general measure of something called "ball movement" which implies how much all the players get involved in a team's offense.  Generally young players need some encouragement, and may have  a difficult time getting their own shot off so having a "pass first point guard" on their team could be very helpful to their development as opposed to a "ball hog" such as Westbrook.
Lamb and Jones, being young players could stand to benefit from a player that makes significantly more assists. It might also help them to see a player who plays something called "defense" at a high level, which is a whole nother thing.

[D.o.s.]

It's definitely better for Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones to play with Rondo. A healthy Rondo is a better defender. Rondo also does very well against the Heat and Bulls.

It's better for Lamb and Jones to play with Rondo?  Based on what?  You realize they wouldn't even be playing with Rondo since Brooks refuses to play them anyway, right?

And why does it matter as it pertains to OKC if Rondo plays well against the Heat or Bulls?  The Thunder only see those two teams twice a season.

The simple fact of the matter is that the move OKC would make, if any, if they were bounced out of the playoffs early would be firing Scott Brooks.  It would make no kind of sense to retain Brooks while making an insane panic move like trading away a top 10 player who's only 25 years old just because of playoff disappointment.  They would easily fire Brooks before getting rid of Westbrook.

Did you just ask why it would be better for Lamb and Jones to play with Rondo? Really?

Yes, so are you going to bother explaining?  Because otherwise it's a baseless statement.  Jones and Lamb have barely even played with Westbrook, so it's not like you've provided any substantial reasons based on history.  And no, "Rondo is a pass first guard, so he's best suited for those guys" doesn't mean anything if that's the route you're going.

Actually it does. You see there's this thing called an assist. An assist is when a player (often the point guard) passes to a player that then scores. It is a general measure of something called "ball movement" which implies how much all the players get involved in a team's offense.  Generally young players need some encouragement, and may have  a difficult time getting their own shot off so having a "pass first point guard" on their team could be very helpful to their development as opposed to a "ball hog" such as Westbrook.
Lamb and Jones, being young players could stand to benefit from a player that makes significantly more assists. It might also help them to see a player who plays something called "defense" at a high level, which is a whole nother thing.

People who pay attention to the NBA actually have better ways to measure the effectiveness of ball movement than assists.


Here's a good example from december of last year:


http://regressing.deadspin.com/does-more-ball-movement-help-an-nba-offense-or-just-wa-1481953704

[Endless Paradise]

You could've just said "I don't actually know anything about OKC, so I'm just blindly spouting nonsense about how Rondo is better for them because he's pass-first and plays better defense" rather than wasting your time with unfunny facetious "humor."

But go on thinking Westbrook, who's virtually never played with Lamb and Jones this season, is impeding their development somehow.

[D.o.s.]

Also worth pointing out: while Rondo garnered some All-Defense awards playing with KG, his defensive level has been well below Westbrook's over this last season. I'm not sure that you can just wash your hands of that quite so easily by saying "well he's not healthy yet," since the disparity was pretty substantial over the regular season, despite both of them coming back from injuries and being subject to rust.

http://bkref.com/tiny/5sa2c

[Celtics18]

Also worth pointing out: while Rondo garnered some All-Defense awards playing with KG, his defensive level has been well below Westbrook's over this last season. I'm not sure that you can just wash your hands of that quite so easily by saying "well he's not healthy yet," since the disparity was pretty substantial over the regular season, despite both of them coming back from injuries and being subject to rust.

http://bkref.com/tiny/5sa2c

Are you referring to Defensive WinShares or Defensive Rating?  Either way, Rondo has better career numbers in both categories.

I'm not going to put too much stock into Rondo's performance from this season.  He was recovering on a lottery team, and it seemed like his primary goal was simply to try to get himself back into playing shape.  It didn't look like he was consistently working his hardest on the defensive end in this scenario.
Now, you can say he should have been and write him off based on this season's performance.  Personally, I think that would be a little short sighted, though. 

[Rondo9]

Also worth pointing out: while Rondo garnered some All-Defense awards playing with KG, his defensive level has been well below Westbrook's over this last season. I'm not sure that you can just wash your hands of that quite so easily by saying "well he's not healthy yet," since the disparity was pretty substantial over the regular season, despite both of them coming back from injuries and being subject to rust.

http://bkref.com/tiny/5sa2c

Yet Rondo came back from ACL surgery and Westbrook coming back from a Menicus tear.

[LilRip]

I do think OKC should trade Westbrook, but they'll likely be in the hunt for an elite big rather than replacing him with Rondo.

[Eja117]

You could've just said "I don't actually know anything about OKC, so I'm just blindly spouting nonsense about how Rondo is better for them because he's pass-first and plays better defense" rather than wasting your time with unfunny facetious "humor."

But go on thinking Westbrook, who's virtually never played with Lamb and Jones this season, is impeding their development somehow.

I will thanks. They've been there two seasons now. It's not like they've just met.

[Eja117]

It's definitely better for Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones to play with Rondo. A healthy Rondo is a better defender. Rondo also does very well against the Heat and Bulls.

It's better for Lamb and Jones to play with Rondo?  Based on what?  You realize they wouldn't even be playing with Rondo since Brooks refuses to play them anyway, right?

And why does it matter as it pertains to OKC if Rondo plays well against the Heat or Bulls?  The Thunder only see those two teams twice a season.

The simple fact of the matter is that the move OKC would make, if any, if they were bounced out of the playoffs early would be firing Scott Brooks.  It would make no kind of sense to retain Brooks while making an insane panic move like trading away a top 10 player who's only 25 years old just because of playoff disappointment.  They would easily fire Brooks before getting rid of Westbrook.

Did you just ask why it would be better for Lamb and Jones to play with Rondo? Really?

Yes, so are you going to bother explaining?  Because otherwise it's a baseless statement.  Jones and Lamb have barely even played with Westbrook, so it's not like you've provided any substantial reasons based on history.  And no, "Rondo is a pass first guard, so he's best suited for those guys" doesn't mean anything if that's the route you're going.

Actually it does. You see there's this thing called an assist. An assist is when a player (often the point guard) passes to a player that then scores. It is a general measure of something called "ball movement" which implies how much all the players get involved in a team's offense.  Generally young players need some encouragement, and may have  a difficult time getting their own shot off so having a "pass first point guard" on their team could be very helpful to their development as opposed to a "ball hog" such as Westbrook.
Lamb and Jones, being young players could stand to benefit from a player that makes significantly more assists. It might also help them to see a player who plays something called "defense" at a high level, which is a whole nother thing.

People who pay attention to the NBA actually have better ways to measure the effectiveness of ball movement than assists.


Here's a good example from december of last year:


http://regressing.deadspin.com/does-more-ball-movement-help-an-nba-offense-or-just-wa-1481953704

So you think looking at this chart of entire teams implies that if you send Rondo to OK and send Westbrook to Boston then Boston moves up and OK moves down? And you know this from paying attention to the NBA? Riiigghhhttt.

[Endless Paradise]

You could've just said "I don't actually know anything about OKC, so I'm just blindly spouting nonsense about how Rondo is better for them because he's pass-first and plays better defense" rather than wasting your time with unfunny facetious "humor."

But go on thinking Westbrook, who's virtually never played with Lamb and Jones this season, is impeding their development somehow.

I will thanks. They've been there two seasons now. It's not like they've just met.

And they played even less with Westbrook last year, considering, you know, they spent more time in the D-League than the actual NBA.  But again, go on making ignorant comments about a team you clearly know nothing about.

[Eja117]

So what you are saying is that Westbrook is the better passer and defender, and makes his teammates better, and is the better overall player especially when you take into account how much more he gets paid?

Ok. I completely disagree on all accounts.

Now say what you believe.

Say "I believe Westbrook is the better passer" and then say "I believe Westbrook is the better defender".

Go ahead. Say it. I could use a good laugh.

[BballTim]

You could've just said "I don't actually know anything about OKC, so I'm just blindly spouting nonsense about how Rondo is better for them because he's pass-first and plays better defense" rather than wasting your time with unfunny facetious "humor."

But go on thinking Westbrook, who's virtually never played with Lamb and Jones this season, is impeding their development somehow.

I will thanks. They've been there two seasons now. It's not like they've just met.

And they played even less with Westbrook last year, considering, you know, they spent more time in the D-League than the actual NBA.  But again, go on making ignorant comments about a team you clearly know nothing about.

  He probably knows that they were together for training camp, the exhibition season and whatever practices that went on when they weren't in the D league. I'm not sure knowing how many minutes players on OKC play really makes you the ultimate expert on the team though.

[D.o.s.]

So you think looking at this chart of entire teams implies that if you send Rondo to OK and send Westbrook to Boston then Boston moves up and OK moves down? And you know this from paying attention to the NBA? Riiigghhhttt.

I think it's a little more informative than "this guy averages 8 assists in a more efficient offense, but he's a ball hog, they should play with the guy who averages 11 assists in a less efficient offense since he's a pass first point guard."

Also, I'm going to ask you not to read implications into my posts when what you think you're reading isn't at all what I'm typing -- You're way out in left field when we're asking you to play shortstop.

[Endless Paradise]

So what you are saying is that Westbrook is the better passer and defender, and makes his teammates better, and is the better overall player especially when you take into account how much more he gets paid?

Ok. I completely disagree on all accounts.

Now say what you believe.

Say "I believe Westbrook is the better passer" and then say "I believe Westbrook is the better defender".

Go ahead. Say it. I could use a good laugh.

I have no idea what you're going on about as I've never said anything about how Westbrook is better or worse than Rondo, just that your comment about Rondo being better for those two players because of your silly bias against Westbrook is nonsense. Because it is.

BballTim: firstly, I didn't say anything like that. I'm an OKC fan; I watch them regularly. Forgive me if I'm choosing to disregard the opinions of those who don't even watch the team enough to know that
Lamb and Jones have barely shared the court with Westbrook.

Unless you're going to cite actual, in-game examples of how Westbrook is actively impeding their development, that's unfounded nonsense. When people make the silly arguments about how Westbrook is holding OKC back, they at least refer to how he often doesn't defer to Durant when he probably should. This is useless, lazy speculation.

Jones clearly hasn't been negatively impacted by seeing Westbrook play defense considering… gasp, his very role on the team is as a utility defender who can guard positions 2-4. Lamb clearly hasn't been negatively impacted by Westbrook being a "ball hog" considering… gasp, when Brooks actually played him earlier in the season, he was often tasked with facilitating the offense for the bench since Jackson was starting in place of Westbrook. And both guys performed commendably in their designated roles.

If anyone actually bothers to watch OKC regularly, they'll know that the issues commonly cited with the team stem around the notion that Westbrook and Durant aren't a good fit. Not that Westbrook doesn't do enough to set up his other teammates.