The Lin-Asik Gap Year Plan

[PhoSita]

Rondo leaving after next year is just pure speculation at this point.  Far more likely he stays than leaves. 

He's the team's centerpiece now and he likes that.  He knows Danny wants to build around him and he likes that as well.  Despite rampant rumors, danny only appears to have offered him up as part of a CP3 deal.  it's not like he's Ray Allen being constantly shopped.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.  I'm sure Rondo likes being the centerpiece of a team, but he's demonstrated that he's one of the most competitive players in the league, and I think that his desire to be in a winning situation is greater than his desire to be the best guy on the team.

[LarBrd33]

Pho, you basically lost me when you said we'd be able to get Lin, Asik and the #25 for literally nothing. 

Not happening.

Maybe you're right.  Perhaps Houston will look to get value in return for these guys.  I think it's going to be hard for them to do that without taking back significant salary for next year, though.  I doubt anybody is going to give Houston a pick for a year of Lin and / or Asik.

If Houston is really serious about freeing up cap room to sign Carmelo, I think they might be willing to give up a 1st in order to make it happen.  After all, like I said, Lin + Asik is a lot of salary for next season.

I thought Houston was standing firm on their demand of a 1st rounder for Asik.  If Boston hadn't been tanking, they might have considered it.   I can't see them giving him away for nothing now that he's an expiring contract.

[BleedGreen1989]

Rondo leaving after next year is just pure speculation at this point.  Far more likely he stays than leaves. 

He's the team's centerpiece now and he likes that.  He knows Danny wants to build around him and he likes that as well.  Despite rampant rumors, danny only appears to have offered him up as part of a CP3 deal.  it's not like he's Ray Allen being constantly shopped.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.  I'm sure Rondo likes being the centerpiece of a team, but he's demonstrated that he's one of the most competitive players in the league, and I think that his desire to be in a winning situation is greater than his desire to be the best guy on the team.

Yeah, this will be a debate for next season.

If you're convinced Rondo will leave, I could totally see trading him for Exum or Smart, but I'd have to be near certain he was leaving. Otherwise, I would want more from LA then just a pick.

[slamtheking]

Rondo leaving after next year is just pure speculation at this point.  Far more likely he stays than leaves. 

He's the team's centerpiece now and he likes that.  He knows Danny wants to build around him and he likes that as well.  Despite rampant rumors, danny only appears to have offered him up as part of a CP3 deal.  it's not like he's Ray Allen being constantly shopped.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.  I'm sure Rondo likes being the centerpiece of a team, but he's demonstrated that he's one of the most competitive players in the league, and I think that his desire to be in a winning situation is greater than his desire to be the best guy on the team.

Yeah, this will be a debate for next season.

If you're convinced Rondo will leave, I could totally see trading him for Exum or Smart, but I'd have to be near certain he was leaving. Otherwise, I would want more from LA then just a pick.

I agree.  I'd need to see something a lot more definitive from Rondo that he's determined to leave Boston before I trade him for a draft pick that I could only hope becomes close to as good as Rondo.  I'd be extremely relunctant to move him to the Lakers too --> creates a really tough team with Rondo, Kobe and Pau next year and going forward acts as a natural draw for FAs that want to play with a pass-first PG AND get to be in the entertainment mecca of the world. 

several other posters have poo-pooed the idea of Danny not making a deal with LA due to the rivalry but as thick a skin as he may have, god help him if he's the GM that enables LA to tie and possibly overtake the Celtics in number of titles. 

[Moranis]

I agree.  There is no point in acquiring Asik if you trade Rondo.  It is a different team, but still a mediocre one. 

I believe the Celtics either need to go all in (i.e. trade picks and players to build around Rondo) or go full on rebuild (i.e. trade Rondo, Bass, Wallace, etc.).  I just don't see the point in making trades that confuse either take and make Boston an Atlanta/Charlotte level team without much hope to get out of that tier.  Just no point in that.

Yes, it's still a mediocre team.  Hence the term "gap year."

Generally, I would agree with you that acquiring Asik if we're trading Rondo makes little sense -- if the team is giving up assets to get him.

As here, where the team is giving up nothing but expiring / non-guaranteed deals and the money it will take to pay Asik next season, I think it's fine.  Asik can be a one year rental. 

If Asik is not available for such a low cost, I would consider bringing in a stop-gap solution at center like Emeka Okafor, who is not likely to cost much, either, and could be brought in on a very team-friendly deal.

I just think there's a lot of value in bringing in a true center who can give the team quality minutes, because it will allow Sullinger and Olynyk to get more time at their true position, PF.  It will also help the Celtics bring along any young center (e.g. Nurkic, Capela, or even Embiid) slowly, rather than throwing them into the fire before they are ready.

Further, it gives Brad Stevens the opportunity to show what he can do defensively when he has the basic, fundamental pieces for an NBA defense.  I think it's important not to forget that we have a young, relatively inexperienced coach who needs to develop, too. 

Giving him a team that will allow him to actually develop coherent strategies and implement a system moving forward will help him become a better coach.  There's only so much Brad can really do if all season he's just shuffling around mismatched pieces.



I would agree with you that creating a "Atlanta / Charlotte" style team would not make sense if the team were locked into such a situation.  However, again, this is a gap year plan.  After next season, the team would be committed only to Meeks, Wallace, potentially Jeff Green, and a bunch of quality young players.  They'd still have a lot of picks coming down the pike.  In other words, the team would have all the flexibility in the world.

I just don't see the point of improving the team next year while trading Rondo.  Doesn't make any sense.  It is counter-intuitive and a backwards step especially with a very deep and strong center draft in 2015.  If you want a real center and we don't get Embiid, that center very easily could be in high school right now and in the 2015 draft. 

Now if Boston goes all in and builds around Rondo by acquiring say Kevin Love, then getting Asik makes a ton of sense.

[PhoSita]

just don't see the point of improving the team next year while trading Rondo.

I get that, but my thinking is this:

Under this plan, you're bringing in 3 (highly talented) rookies and adding them to an already very young team, with a young, inexperienced coach.  It's really important that these players get developed the right way, in the right environment. 

So if you're trading away Rondo, yeah, the temptation might be to totally stink again with a "youth movement" and get another high lottery pick.  But I think we'd be entering a phase where it's dangerous to set the team up to fail before the season because you don't want to develop these players in an environment that's going to give them bad habits or force them to do too much too quickly.


This year, it didn't matter so much how bad the team was, because most of the players on the roster won't be here in 2-3 years.  Under this plan, at least, that won't be the case with next year's team.

[PhoSita]

Pho, you basically lost me when you said we'd be able to get Lin, Asik and the #25 for literally nothing. 

Not happening.

Maybe you're right.  Perhaps Houston will look to get value in return for these guys.  I think it's going to be hard for them to do that without taking back significant salary for next year, though.  I doubt anybody is going to give Houston a pick for a year of Lin and / or Asik.

If Houston is really serious about freeing up cap room to sign Carmelo, I think they might be willing to give up a 1st in order to make it happen.  After all, like I said, Lin + Asik is a lot of salary for next season.

I thought Houston was standing firm on their demand of a 1st rounder for Asik.  If Boston hadn't been tanking, they might have considered it.   I can't see them giving him away for nothing now that he's an expiring contract.

I don't see what Houston's leverage is now.  Asik is just an expiring contract now.  He can give you one good year as a starting center, but then you have to pay him, and he might not even want to stick around.

Houston didn't need to move Asik this year, which was why they could set a higher price.  If they're trying to clear cap space this summer, they won't be in a position to keep Asik if they don't get the offers they'd prefer.

[SHAQATTACK]

If DA winds up trading Rondo......before next season

Then its back to full tank o Rama in my estimation .

Asik may not be useful ......

Just keep drafting more young talent with another lottery pick......

And with no Rondo......the lottery run might be another two years of build up.  Till we can clear all those contracts ....Wallace , Bass, etc.

Unless Danny lands a elite talent star to play along side Rondo.......honestly , I don't see Rondo staying or DA wanting to pay him as the rebuild takes on a whole different look.

[LarBrd33]

If DA winds up trading Rondo......before next season

Then its back to full tank o Rama in my estimation .

Unless we are better without Rondo.  Depends on the players, I think. 

[LilRip]

just don't see the point of improving the team next year while trading Rondo.

I get that, but my thinking is this:

Under this plan, you're bringing in 3 (highly talented) rookies and adding them to an already very young team, with a young, inexperienced coach.  It's really important that these players get developed the right way, in the right environment. 

So if you're trading away Rondo, yeah, the temptation might be to totally stink again with a "youth movement" and get another high lottery pick.  But I think we'd be entering a phase where it's dangerous to set the team up to fail before the season because you don't want to develop these players in an environment that's going to give them bad habits or force them to do too much too quickly.

This year, it didn't matter so much how bad the team was, because most of the players on the roster won't be here in 2-3 years.  Under this plan, at least, that won't be the case with next year's team.

I get where you're coming from. I am also a believer that rookies shouldn't just be handed starting roles or minutes. Force-feeding them PT is probably more harmful to them than letting them sit on the bench for long stretches.

That said, this seems like a lot of musical chairs and I don't think it needs to be this complicated. I don't think the final roster will necessarily yield better results than this year's team (who i thought underperformed, and for good reason). We have a lot of vets on this squad anyway who can provide "mentoring".

I also think that you only bring in a guy like Asik if there's a real plan to sign him in the long term (btw, I assume that Houston will ask for a higher price than our trash). He won't sign/extend for cheap, I think that much is certain. Signing Asik for long term also provides a stable presence for the roster.

For all this talk about cultivating a bad culture, I think signing a bunch of short-term, hired guns creates a bad culture as well. Just full of guys out there looking to get that next contract.

[LooseCannon]

I also think that you only bring in a guy like Asik if there's a real plan to sign him in the long term (btw, I assume that Houston will ask for a higher price than our trash). He won't sign/extend for cheap, I think that much is certain. Signing Asik for long term also provides a stable presence for the roster.

The good thing about Asik being an expiring contract is that the Celtics would have his Bird rights to give them the ability to outbid most teams to retain his services (and a cap hold that isn't going to be too huge if Ainge wants to do some maneuvering before committing to bringing back Asik) and the team would have a year to evaluate him, if anyone is squeamish about giving a big contract to someone who has really only had one season as a full-time starter.

[BballTim]

just don't see the point of improving the team next year while trading Rondo.

I get that, but my thinking is this:

Under this plan, you're bringing in 3 (highly talented) rookies and adding them to an already very young team, with a young, inexperienced coach.  It's really important that these players get developed the right way, in the right environment. 

So if you're trading away Rondo, yeah, the temptation might be to totally stink again with a "youth movement" and get another high lottery pick.  But I think we'd be entering a phase where it's dangerous to set the team up to fail before the season because you don't want to develop these players in an environment that's going to give them bad habits or force them to do too much too quickly.


This year, it didn't matter so much how bad the team was, because most of the players on the roster won't be here in 2-3 years.  Under this plan, at least, that won't be the case with next year's team.

  I still think you're putting a pretty high premium on developing a group of young players who would likely collectively amount to a low playoff seeded team at their peak.

[crimson_stallion]

No.

Lin and Asik are both overpaid garbage and Bradley is far better than Meeks with infinitely higher upside.  Kendal Marshal looks to have pretty modest potential.

I say no to all of these options EXCEPT trading the 17th+25th picks to Kiev up I'm the draft.  That move I agree with.

[pokeKingCurtis]

just don't see the point of improving the team next year while trading Rondo.

I get that, but my thinking is this:

Under this plan, you're bringing in 3 (highly talented) rookies and adding them to an already very young team, with a young, inexperienced coach.  It's really important that these players get developed the right way, in the right environment. 

So if you're trading away Rondo, yeah, the temptation might be to totally stink again with a "youth movement" and get another high lottery pick.  But I think we'd be entering a phase where it's dangerous to set the team up to fail before the season because you don't want to develop these players in an environment that's going to give them bad habits or force them to do too much too quickly.


This year, it didn't matter so much how bad the team was, because most of the players on the roster won't be here in 2-3 years.  Under this plan, at least, that won't be the case with next year's team.

  I still think you're putting a pretty high premium on developing a group of young players who would likely collectively amount to a low playoff seeded team at their peak.

The allure of potential: Fab Melo has some, too. He could still potentially have a better career than Garnett.

Except for our players. No potential there. Sullinger has reached his ceiling.

[Moranis]

just don't see the point of improving the team next year while trading Rondo.

I get that, but my thinking is this:

Under this plan, you're bringing in 3 (highly talented) rookies and adding them to an already very young team, with a young, inexperienced coach.  It's really important that these players get developed the right way, in the right environment. 

So if you're trading away Rondo, yeah, the temptation might be to totally stink again with a "youth movement" and get another high lottery pick.  But I think we'd be entering a phase where it's dangerous to set the team up to fail before the season because you don't want to develop these players in an environment that's going to give them bad habits or force them to do too much too quickly.


This year, it didn't matter so much how bad the team was, because most of the players on the roster won't be here in 2-3 years.  Under this plan, at least, that won't be the case with next year's team.

as bball tim says, the peak for that roster, if everything goes well, is still not winning a title so what is the point.

I also don't get this notion that losing early means you don't know how to win.  Michael Jordan was on teams that won less than 40 games his first two seasons.  Lebron James was on a 35 win team his rookie year.  The Oklahoma City group won 20 games Durant's first season and 23 games Westbrook's first season.  They have been a 50 win team since.  Losing is only a problem if you don't have winners for players.