Author Topic: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?  (Read 14221 times)

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Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« on: April 20, 2014, 10:20:13 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Enough rumors before the trade deadline for me to believe that this deal was in the works to get completed but was halted bc:

1) Danny getting Asik at that point would of helped the Celtics win more games which would of messed up a chance to get the highest pick possible

2) Houston needed Asik for the playoff run especialy in case Howard goes down (which did occur in the later part of the year)

3) Morey unsure if the 2nd 1st pick would of gone into 20's if Brooklyn got on a hot streak. He required more value for Asik

The Celts need a legit rim protector/Center for next season. Danny has said already this is the 1# priority (he will likely have to overpay a little).  The market is thin though to obtain such a player. FA Gortat is going to require a 3-5 year committment /overpayment which i can't see Danny offering. Okafor is prob going to milk as money as possible before possibly getting injured again.  Asik to me looks like the Celtics best choice to fill in a big need for an important season coming up (with Rondo becoming a FA).  The bad part is Asik is only signed for the rest of 2014-2015 season but the good part is that the celts wont be tied to a big contract and should be able to possibly resign him to a decent extension or obtain another center via FA or 2015 draft (like a WCS)

Trade idea

To Rockets: 2014 17th pick, Bass, Anthony
To Celtics: Asik, 2014 41st pick

Starting lineup for next season unless Danny can pull off another 2007 situation

C-   Asik
PF- Sullinger/KO
SF- Green
SG- AB
PG- Rondo

Draft picks
1-6 = even if its Embiid, he is going to come off the bench.  Wiggins, Exum etc. won't be ready to provide immediate contributions and will come off the bench.  Thus a player like Green will be kept
41 =  BPA - The talent level from 15-45 is about the same in this draft. Danny will get a chance to draft a 1st round talent if he does his homework

Add help to the bench by signing a couple of vets like Corey Brewer, Prince.  I can see this team at worse making the playoffs and likely 6th to 7th spot in the weak East. Then who knows what happens there. Rondo might start playing out of this world again.

 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 10:31:18 PM by triboy16f »

Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 10:36:39 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I don't think your deal makes a lot of sense for Houston. I believe if Houston trades Asik, their #1 priority is to cut payroll. Terrance Jones has almost made any trade sending someone to Houston who plays the role of stretch 4 almost irrelevant.

My best guess is if we acquire Asik, we'll either send all our non-guaranteed contracts or we'll absorb him outright via trade exception. The picks will happen based on how badly Danny wants Asik vs how desperate Morey is to move him. My bet is at least one heavily protected 1st goes Houston's way.

This of course also doesn't even begin to look into how the lottery and our pick affects negotiations.

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Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 10:38:13 PM »

Offline chambers

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The question is why?
This trade makes us mediocre and wins us another 5-10 games with a healthy Rondo and Asik protecting the rim.
We are giving up a first round pick for 12 months of Omer Asik.
What happens if Omer Asik walks at seasons end.
Then Rondo walks.
They're both playing contract years so you can bet they'll be playing their hearts out.

So either one of them walks, or both- and we are left with nothing but one less Brooklyn pick and a crappier 2015 pick of our own.

I'd love Asik, but I don't see the point in giving up valuable assets for a guy that Morey is desperate to get rid of and is expiring.
I asked the question in another thread regarding Asik and Lin coming here.
If Asik has a career year here on the Celtics as a starter, and builds his value up even more, do we match an offer from a team like Charlotte for a four year $60 million deal?
Wait till he's a free agent.
I just think we need to get the top 15-20 NBA player here first, locked in or at least on the roster before we start giving away picks and adding pointless wins to our 2015 season.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 10:49:23 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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The question is why?
This trade makes us mediocre and wins us another 5-10 games with a healthy Rondo and Asik protecting the rim.
We are giving up a first round pick for 12 months of Omer Asik.
What happens if Omer Asik walks at seasons end.
Then Rondo walks.
They're both playing contract years so you can bet they'll be playing their hearts out.

So either one of them walks, or both- and we are left with nothing but one less Brooklyn pick and a crappier 2015 pick of our own.

I'd love Asik, but I don't see the point in giving up valuable assets for a guy that Morey is desperate to get rid of and is expiring.
I asked the question in another thread regarding Asik and Lin coming here.
If Asik has a career year here on the Celtics as a starter, and builds his value up even more, do we match an offer from a team like Charlotte for a four year $60 million deal?
Wait till he's a free agent.
I just think we need to get the top 15-20 NBA player here first, locked in or at least on the roster before we start giving away picks and adding pointless wins to our 2015 season.

I don't understand the assumption that Ainge sits back after acquiring Asik and does nothing else to improve the roster.
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Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 10:52:23 PM »

Offline HomerSapien

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I'd be fine with bringing in Asik, but I'm not a huge fan of using the #17 pick in this years draft to trade for a potential 1-year rental.  Doesn't make sense to me.  The C's still need to acquire more young talent, not invest some of it in getting a role player (albeit a good one).  If he were on a multi-year deal I'd feel differently.  Unless he can be had for less, I agree with waiting until 2015 free agency.

Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 11:02:15 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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The question is why?
This trade makes us mediocre and wins us another 5-10 games with a healthy Rondo and Asik protecting the rim.
We are giving up a first round pick for 12 months of Omer Asik.
What happens if Omer Asik walks at seasons end.
Then Rondo walks.
They're both playing contract years so you can bet they'll be playing their hearts out.

So either one of them walks, or both- and we are left with nothing but one less Brooklyn pick and a crappier 2015 pick of our own.

I'd love Asik, but I don't see the point in giving up valuable assets for a guy that Morey is desperate to get rid of and is expiring.
I asked the question in another thread regarding Asik and Lin coming here.
If Asik has a career year here on the Celtics as a starter, and builds his value up even more, do we match an offer from a team like Charlotte for a four year $60 million deal?
Wait till he's a free agent.
I just think we need to get the top 15-20 NBA player here first, locked in or at least on the roster before we start giving away picks and adding pointless wins to our 2015 season.

Morey is not going to give Asik up for nothing. Bass alone won't get the deal done. Giving up Green is a possiblity but i feel Danny rather keep Green and risk trading the 17th pick for Asik.

IMO the top goal of the trade would not be for Asik to stay with the team for the long term.  The immediate need is to get that "bandaid" to give this current lineup a chance. To give Rondo some kind of incentive to stay (by making the playoffs). 

For 2015 season that's when Danny can get really serious about building a contender. Look at it this way, if worse case he doesn't get a starting C that can protect the rim for next season, we will likely be no better than the season we had. Rondo will not likely resign, you waste another year with Jeff Green, you just resigned AB to a long term deal. So another waste of a season?  Having 2 draft picks (even if one is Embiid) will likely not provide much impact next season is not compatible with Rondo's situation.

Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 11:14:11 PM »

Offline celticmania

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I'm sick of the obsession with Asik... He's not that good first of all. Second of all, what's the point of trading for him? He's gonna help us win 5 more games. Hes not gonna turn us into a contender. The guy is not Dwight Howard, he's not Tim Duncan.... He's Omer Asik.

Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 11:16:11 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I don't think your deal makes a lot of sense for Houston. I believe if Houston trades Asik, their #1 priority is to cut payroll. Terrance Jones has almost made any trade sending someone to Houston who plays the role of stretch 4 almost irrelevant.

My best guess is if we acquire Asik, we'll either send all our non-guaranteed contracts or we'll absorb him outright via trade exception. The picks will happen based on how badly Danny wants Asik vs how desperate Morey is to move him. My bet is at least one heavily protected 1st goes Houston's way.

This of course also doesn't even begin to look into how the lottery and our pick affects negotiations.

Imo it makes sense. 1) Asik wants out.  If he is yelling at Morey now, he will be screaming  at him in the offseason. He is going to get more money for his next contract if he gets to play starting minutes. 2)  Asik is not the long term plan for the Rockets anymore. Might as well trade him for the best you can get. The 17th pick is prob as good as it gets.


Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 11:22:44 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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A lot of what Dos said, but also, who's to say Ainge has to give up much of value? Or at least, value to the Celtics?

Danny seems to value cap space in 2015 extremely highly. So any contract that expires before then, gaining or sending, is almost inconsequential outside of a handful of players (Rondo, Sully, Olnyk, Green).

So really, it comes down to picks. Is Asik worth a lottery protected Celtics 1st? Maybe. A top-20 protected first? Almost certainly.

And what does Morey value? Smart money says immediate cap relief and future non-cap binding in 2014's summer assets (or picks).

I don't doubt that given enough motivation on Morey's part, a deal gets done. If Melo decides to go to Houston, which I really hope he does to redeem his sullied career, who's to say if Danny plays hardball we can't get Asik for non-guaranteed contracts and a 2nd?

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 11:24:00 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I'm sick of the obsession with Asik... He's not that good first of all. Second of all, what's the point of trading for him? He's gonna help us win 5 more games. Hes not gonna turn us into a contender. The guy is not Dwight Howard, he's not Tim Duncan.... He's Omer Asik.

If every guy Ainge wants to acquire has to be Tim Duncan or Dwight Howard, we're not making a lot of moves.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 11:28:42 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I'm sick of the obsession with Asik... He's not that good first of all. Second of all, what's the point of trading for him? He's gonna help us win 5 more games. Hes not gonna turn us into a contender. The guy is not Dwight Howard, he's not Tim Duncan.... He's Omer Asik.

Asik + experienced/better body Sullinger/KO + Green + AB + healthy Rondo + signing some key vets = more than 5 more wins.  We should make the playoffs

Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 11:30:41 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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I'm sick of the obsession with Asik... He's not that good first of all. Second of all, what's the point of trading for him? He's gonna help us win 5 more games. Hes not gonna turn us into a contender. The guy is not Dwight Howard, he's not Tim Duncan.... He's Omer Asik.

Reasons to trade for Asik: he fits a glaring positional need, is on a short-term contract, and should be available at relatively little cost.

Pairing Sullinger and Olynyk with a real center should help with their development, or at the very least help the Celtics better assess their potential as players to build around.
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Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 11:39:07 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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A lot of what Dos said, but also, who's to say Ainge has to give up much of value? Or at least, value to the Celtics?

Danny seems to value cap space in 2015 extremely highly. So any contract that expires before then, gaining or sending, is almost inconsequential outside of a handful of players (Rondo, Sully, Olnyk, Green).

So really, it comes down to picks. Is Asik worth a lottery protected Celtics 1st? Maybe. A top-20 protected first? Almost certainly.

And what does Morey value? Smart money says immediate cap relief and future non-cap binding in 2014's summer assets (or picks).

I don't doubt that given enough motivation on Morey's part, a deal gets done. If Melo decides to go to Houston, which I really hope he does to redeem his sullied career, who's to say if Danny plays hardball we can't get Asik for non-guaranteed contracts and a 2nd?

I understand the situation your presenting.  If the Rockets sign Melo or another big contract definitely they will value non guaranteed contracts more than anything.  Which ends up being a better bargain for us (or worse some other team).

I'm presenting a situation where Houston doesn't get to bring in Melo and wants a fair value/slightly overpaid for a starting calibre Center.

On the flipside the Celts desperately need a starting Center , even if its for a one year rental. If we don't have that Center/Rim protector , its going to put alot of strain for the rest of the lineup again.  The Value for players like Green and Rondo will start plummeting. 

Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2014, 11:39:37 PM »

Offline cltc5

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Asik is not worth a top 20 draft pick.

Re: Asik for 2014 Celtics 2nd 1st - one of the key plans?
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2014, 11:49:31 PM »

Offline HomerSapien

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One thing I am definitely 100% in agreement with you on is that the Celtics need to start the 2014-15 season with an actual, real center in the starting lineup.  For Asik though, I'd hope we could get away with trading future value (i.e.: a pick with protection on it in 2015 or beyond) for him instead of the 2nd 2014.

There are just so many options available for NBA-caliber centers each year though, so we may be forced to overpay depending on what happens with the rest of the player pool.