Author Topic: JERMAINE O'Neal  (Read 6319 times)

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Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2014, 10:14:06 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Clench you want to keep your credibility?

Then please explain how Doc Rivers is a great coach and Phil Jackson is not.

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2014, 12:36:44 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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amazing when you look back how injuries to big men ruined so many seasons - kg, shaq, JO, perkins... even leon powe, he was a nice prospect for one year and then disappeared after tearing up his knee. (and obviously JO and shaq were old, but still, just brutal.)
and about JO's comeback... maybe it was that special phoenix suns "training?"

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2014, 04:44:16 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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I did not like Jermaine O'Neal when he was here. He was a killer on offense, in that he killed our offense by being a giant lug. On defense he didn't stick out as being bad...but overall he added to the viscosity of the molasses nature of our team's playstyle. Then he started  checking out reaaaal soon.

But I'm always happy when people I dislike prove me wrong. Even if I don't have a vested interest in how she/he does anymore.

If it's really as some in this thread says, that Doc is the one that's been causing JO to suck...then that just adds fuel to the one-way-love-hate relationship I have with Doc.

I guess it's understandable for a player to not play well when they're not part of the offense. Heck, I hate being shut out of the offense in pick up basketball. Guess we could cut Green some slack as well.

Sure, players have to play well but coaches have to meet them halfway sometimes and involve them.

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2014, 05:48:37 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Okay but that does not explain why Jermaine O'Neal's stay with Celtics was such an epic fail.

  The biggest issue we had with JO in the lineup in 2012 (besides his health) was that the big three were aging to the point that them + JO + Rondo was too unathletic a team. Moving Bass and Bradley into the lineup helped with this so we could keep playing PP and KG and keep up with younger teams. I think if JO (broken hand) and Rondo had been healthy for the 2011 playoffs we'd have had a solid shot at beating the Heat.

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2014, 07:35:15 AM »

Offline Clench123

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Clench you want to keep your credibility?

Then please explain how Doc Rivers is a great coach and Phil Jackson is not.

I couldn't care less about credibility around here.  I just say what I feel.  But what I meant with my last statement that if Doc isn't considered a great coach, then Phil Jackson isn't one. 

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
 blood would’ve been green.  -  Bill "Greatest of All Time" Russell

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2014, 08:47:29 AM »

Offline Mr October

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I am not really sure what our plan was that year. Was Jermaine or Shaq slated to start? I think Jermaine may have tanked the season because we started Shaq ahead of him. I am not sure, but I thought Shaq was brought in for a backup role, but somehow just played and charmed his way into that starting role, that eventually led to the Perkins trade.

You have a healthy Shaq and JO, who do you go with? Exactly. Perk was hurt Shaq was the choice. When Shaq was healthy, that team was amazing, he played well and so did everyone else. He didn't have to charm his way to anything.

Blame Shaq for not being healthy but other than that, he was the right choice when he was healthy. He was the right choice over Perkins too but he didn't stay healthy. Don't confuse him not playing the entire season with what happened when he was healthy.

Yup.....when Shaq was healthy.....that team was a steam roller ......it destroyed opponents ......it didn't seem fair . 

Now I'm sick .....we had all those bigs .....now we run a miget offense .

I miss those days of Celtics as. Big team with serious bigs.

Oh well......maybe in another 20 years .....we can have a great center once again.

Yeah, those Shaq Celtics games were a thing of beauty, and as you said unfair. No one could stop them. Sigh.... That was the last powerhouse stretch for our Celtics.

Addressing the JO question. He was damaged goods as a Celtic. And history tells us he is going to breakdown again in these playoffs. We will see.

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2014, 08:55:51 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Guy has no heart, I almost hate him.

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2014, 09:07:26 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Seems to be playing well in GSW...I'm happy for him.

GSW seems to have incorporated him well into their schemes....Klay Thompson's improvement has been evident with him driving to the basket now (not a spot up shooter anymore), and dishing several times to a waiting JO.

JO has always been a defensive presence, as evidenced in BOS (lead us blocks during his time here, as well as picking up quite a few charges).

Maybe that's why he couldn't stay healthy in BOS....he was on the floor a lot after those charges he took for BOS.

I wish him and GSW well. Doc and Clips have their hands full. Blake and DeAndre had better get it going soon. JO and David Lee look a bit hungrier right now.

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2014, 09:53:00 AM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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I doubt any of us really know whether Doc, Red, Phil, Pop are great coaches or whether their successes were more about great players.  Red doesn't win 11 of 13 without Bill Russell and Phil doesn't win 12 rings without MJ, Shaq and Kobe.  Etc.

I barely remember seeing Red on the sideline and I am 55, so I am dubious that any claim of Red's greatness is based on anything but hearsay.  But with that said, Doc's work as a coach (like any coach), though recent,  is only partially visible to the fan.  In-game decisions and coaching philosophy you may judge, but practices, relationships, leadership, motivational capacity are factors (among others) that we as fans may make assumptions about, but we don't really know. 

Red was probably an amazing coach, but seeing clips of a practice session and hearing soundbites doesn't prove it.  And with Russell, Cousy, Hondo, Jones, Jones, Sharmin, Sanders, etc, there is reason to believe that the C's could have won with ML Carr at the helm.  That said, I think Doc, Phil, Pop and Red are all good coaches with different skill sets, and at least two of them probably were great.

What seems undoubtable is the Red was a great GM,  Phil made great career decisons, Pop got an incredibly fortuitous broken foot from his Admiral and the lucky roll of a ping-pong ball, and Doc made good use of two great trades by his GM.   

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2014, 10:35:36 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Seems to be playing well in GSW...I'm happy for him.
JO has always been a defensive presence, as evidenced in BOS (lead us blocks during his time here, as well as picking up quite a few charges).

Maybe that's why he couldn't stay healthy in BOS....he was on the floor a lot after those charges he took for BOS.

That was his game.  He was one of the few big men who could block shots but would also put his body on the line and absorb a lot of charges.  The wrist fracture that O'Neal suffered in the first game of the 2011 playoffs came due to taking a charge and landing badly.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2014, 11:18:23 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Clench you want to keep your credibility?

Then please explain how Doc Rivers is a great coach and Phil Jackson is not.

I couldn't care less about credibility around here.  I just say what I feel.  But what I meant with my last statement that if Doc isn't considered a great coach, then Phil Jackson isn't one.

I'd be among those who think Phil's genius gets a little overblown but you can't put him on the same level as Doc. 

Mike

Re: JERMAINE O'Neal
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2014, 11:23:04 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Doc was not and is not a great coach.

Red was a great coach, PJ was a great coach, Pop is a great coach -- are you getting my drift now?

Red was in a class of his own.  Pop is close but I won't put him up there just yet.  Just because you don't measure up to Red doesn't make you less of a great coach.

By the way, I don't consider Phil Jackson a great coach...are you getting my drift now?

Is coaching greatness only defined by winning when you've got a great team?  'Cause guys like Thibs and George Karl have won a lot of games in far more challenging situations than either Doc or Phil have faced.

Mike