Author Topic: Does anyone else love Vonleh?  (Read 19588 times)

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Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2014, 12:25:23 AM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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If that's the case, then why did Drummond last all the way to the #9 pick of the draft?  He should have gone top 3 for sure if his physical size plus athletic ability were considered that outstanding.

Here is the top 10 of the 2012 draft:

1.  Anthony Davis
2.  MKG
3.  Bradley Beal
4.  Dion Waiters
5.  Thomas Robinson
6.  Damian Lillard
7.  Harrison Barnes
8.  Terrance Ross
9.  Drummond
10.  Austin Rivers

In any case, I wouldn't compare Vonleh to Drummond.  As an NBA player, I feel he compares best to Chris Bosh.  And getting a Bosh type is well worth a top 8 pick.

Drummond's physical stats were off the charts almost everywhere, though. Like insane. 6'10, 275 and ridiculous hops and strength for that size. It's very rare to get that in an NBA center. Physically, he is/was a Dwight clone for the most part. I'd have happily traded Pierce to have a pick that could of taken him. Love Paul, but even at the time I was all in on that idea.

I'm not advocating for not drafting Vonleh if we're at 6, or even 5 (No brainier at 7) but he doesn't have those drool worthy physical stats Drummond had. You can't find what Drummond has everyday.

Simple answer why Drummond slipped; some GM's are very bad at their job and like to outthink themselves. I'd happily take Drummond at 2 in a do-over.


Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2014, 01:26:09 AM »

Offline HomerSapien

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Simple answer why Drummond slipped; some GM's are very bad at their job and like to outthink themselves. I'd happily take Drummond at 2 in a do-over.
As would 4 - 5 of the GMs who picked ahead of the Pistons.  Unfortunately, revisionist history can't help those guys now. 

At the time Drummond was all about potential.  He was ridiculously gifted athletically, but extremely raw, and there were questions about his assertiveness on the court.  When drafted he wasn't being lauded as a "steal" at #9 at all.  Probably was one of the bigger projects in the draft.  Most of the league was pretty shocked by the impact he had in year 1.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2014, 07:26:18 AM »

Offline clover

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Embiid is every bit as much of a physical specimen as Drummond, and clearly a fast learner. Which is why if he's healthy he can probably fit in and help a team in contention as quickly as anyone else (Parker) in this draft.

I too was ready to ship Pierce to the Nets for the pick that could have netted (no pun intended) Drummond. I would have loved Danny to have sweetened the deal enough for them to pick Pierce over Wallace. Rondo, after all, was the starting PG on a championship team his second year in the league.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2014, 07:43:00 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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People are forgetting why Drummond fell. It wasn't because of his measurements or potential or performance, it was because of his head. Most people who interviewed him, interviewed his coaches and people around the Huskies told a story of an aloof, spacey, kid who's head wasn't always dedicated to basketball, even during practices and games. They stated this was the reason for some of his constant no shows on the court. It also hindered his development.

Has much really changed?

Vonleh doesn't have anywhere near the athleticism, length or raw ability that Drummond has. But he might have a much better head. So in this draft, he might be picked in the same area as Drummond was.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2014, 07:45:07 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Not that any pick is safe.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1937609-why-noah-vonleh-is-safer-2014-nba-draft-prospect-than-julius-randle

I think his 7'4" wingspan, will make him a better defender than Sully.

I don't think he is elite by any stretch nor do I think Sully is elite.   Both have potential to be nice good players but no great ones.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2014, 08:25:42 AM »

Offline cb8883

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Not that any pick is safe.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1937609-why-noah-vonleh-is-safer-2014-nba-draft-prospect-than-julius-randle

I think his 7'4" wingspan, will make him a better defender than Sully.

I don't think he is elite by any stretch nor do I think Sully is elite.   Both have potential to be nice good players but no great ones.

Randle is the type of player who has a low ceiling, high floor, and stays in the league for a decade as a 3rd big for a contender. Kind of like Brandon Bass. I wouldn't take Brandon Bass 5th overall and neither should Boston. Vonleh has a much higher ceiling. You have to gamble on potential.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2014, 08:48:19 AM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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Simple answer why Drummond slipped; some GM's are very bad at their job and like to outthink themselves. I'd happily take Drummond at 2 in a do-over.
As would 4 - 5 of the GMs who picked ahead of the Pistons.  Unfortunately, revisionist history can't help those guys now. 

At the time Drummond was all about potential.  He was ridiculously gifted athletically, but extremely raw, and there were questions about his assertiveness on the court.  When drafted he wasn't being lauded as a "steal" at #9 at all.  Probably was one of the bigger projects in the draft.  Most of the league was pretty shocked by the impact he had in year 1.

Isn't Vonleh almost also entirely based in potential? I'm just saying, compared to Drummond he's not an exciting prospect. I wouldn't not draft him, but just doesn't get me as excited personally.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2014, 09:23:46 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Not that any pick is safe.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1937609-why-noah-vonleh-is-safer-2014-nba-draft-prospect-than-julius-randle

I think his 7'4" wingspan, will make him a better defender than Sully.

I don't think he is elite by any stretch nor do I think Sully is elite.   Both have potential to be nice good players but no great ones.

Randle is the type of player who has a low ceiling, high floor, and stays in the league for a decade as a 3rd big for a contender. Kind of like Brandon Bass. I wouldn't take Brandon Bass 5th overall and neither should Boston. Vonleh has a much higher ceiling. You have to gamble on potential.

Not a bad comparison .   I thought of Bass too,  but I think Randle will be better at everything , especially handling the ball down low .  I believe he may have a ceiling of Milsap possibly .  He is so young and two years in the NBA could be huge development time for his overall game.

I agree though with the thought that to GET. Better , like anything you have to take some risks .  Randle is too big , strong , quick and young not to succeed .  But the ceiling maybe low because of IQ or the Bass syndrome .  He won't be a Fab Melo bust or JJJ ,   But Randle might disappoint if Gordon, Vonieh , Smart become all stars .

I d rather keep Rondo than chance Smart .   , and rather dump Bass and take Randle ....which might free up a trade of Sully or Randle to get an elite talent or center

I think......if I was gambling with a pick ....it would be Exum .  Some GM is going to look like a genius or a bum . With all the good players that could also have been taken.

The number four pick could be the HiGh Risk -High REWARD selection of the draft.

I still hope Embiid falls a few spots ....I wouldn't hesitate ..... ;D




Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2014, 09:46:01 AM »

Offline McHales Pits

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I didn't bring up Drummond as a comparison for athleticism, skillset, or play style - only as a comparison for BBIQ. Drummond was a raw, low-awareness big man. He turned out okay. Vonleh is also being pegged as a low-awareness big man, but he may yet be successful in the NBA also.
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Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2014, 09:52:43 AM »

Offline clover

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Simple answer why Drummond slipped; some GM's are very bad at their job and like to outthink themselves. I'd happily take Drummond at 2 in a do-over.
As would 4 - 5 of the GMs who picked ahead of the Pistons.  Unfortunately, revisionist history can't help those guys now. 

At the time Drummond was all about potential.  He was ridiculously gifted athletically, but extremely raw, and there were questions about his assertiveness on the court.  When drafted he wasn't being lauded as a "steal" at #9 at all.  Probably was one of the bigger projects in the draft.  Most of the league was pretty shocked by the impact he had in year 1.

Isn't Vonleh almost also entirely based in potential? I'm just saying, compared to Drummond he's not an exciting prospect. I wouldn't not draft him, but just doesn't get me as excited personally.

Nurkic is IMO the better Drummond comparison this year. He's young and in some ways still raw, but already tearing it up in Europe. Fantastic size, though I'd presume not as much a leaper. Still, the concern in part with him seems to be his head and his attitude. I wouldn't mind at all Danny picking Nurkic at 5 if he's comfortable with him as a prospect.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2014, 09:55:59 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I didn't bring up Drummond as a comparison for athleticism, skillset, or play style - only as a comparison for BBIQ. Drummond was a raw, low-awareness big man. He turned out okay. Vonleh is also being pegged as a low-awareness big man, but he may yet be successful in the NBA also.
But by your own admission, with lesser skiulls, athleticism and play style but a similar low basketball IQ then there's every reason to believe Vonleh won't develop as quickly and probably not develop to be as good a player as Drummond is now, which is pretty good but extremely flawed.

I happen to think Vonleh's ceiling is what Derrick Favors is right now and probably not nearly the defensive player Favors is.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2014, 10:02:51 AM »

Offline footey

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I didn't bring up Drummond as a comparison for athleticism, skillset, or play style - only as a comparison for BBIQ. Drummond was a raw, low-awareness big man. He turned out okay. Vonleh is also being pegged as a low-awareness big man, but he may yet be successful in the NBA also.
But by your own admission, with lesser skiulls, athleticism and play style but a similar low basketball IQ then there's every reason to believe Vonleh won't develop as quickly and probably not develop to be as good a player as Drummond is now, which is pretty good but extremely flawed.

I happen to think Vonleh's ceiling is what Derrick Favors is right now and probably not nearly the defensive player Favors is.

This is my observation as well.  Not an awful outcome, but let us not kid ourselves, he is not the second coming of Drummond.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2014, 10:06:47 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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Simple answer why Drummond slipped; some GM's are very bad at their job and like to outthink themselves. I'd happily take Drummond at 2 in a do-over.
As would 4 - 5 of the GMs who picked ahead of the Pistons.  Unfortunately, revisionist history can't help those guys now. 

At the time Drummond was all about potential.  He was ridiculously gifted athletically, but extremely raw, and there were questions about his assertiveness on the court.  When drafted he wasn't being lauded as a "steal" at #9 at all.  Probably was one of the bigger projects in the draft.  Most of the league was pretty shocked by the impact he had in year 1.

Isn't Vonleh almost also entirely based in potential? I'm just saying, compared to Drummond he's not an exciting prospect. I wouldn't not draft him, but just doesn't get me as excited personally.

Nurkic is IMO the better Drummond comparison this year. He's young and in some ways still raw, but already tearing it up in Europe. Fantastic size, though I'd presume not as much a leaper. Still, the concern in part with him seems to be his head and his attitude. I wouldn't mind at all Danny picking Nurkic at 5 if he's comfortable with him as a prospect.

Nurkic has the jump hook down pat, with either hand. Tommy would love this guy. He actually looks a bit like a bigger Tom Heinson.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2014, 10:16:53 AM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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I didn't bring up Drummond as a comparison for athleticism, skillset, or play style - only as a comparison for BBIQ. Drummond was a raw, low-awareness big man. He turned out okay. Vonleh is also being pegged as a low-awareness big man, but he may yet be successful in the NBA also.

Sure, but Drummond has been a good player because of his size, strength and athleticism. Vonleh just isn't in the same class in that regard. Drummond can kind of get away with not being the smartest player.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2014, 10:23:12 AM »

Offline McHales Pits

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I didn't bring up Drummond as a comparison for athleticism, skillset, or play style - only as a comparison for BBIQ. Drummond was a raw, low-awareness big man. He turned out okay. Vonleh is also being pegged as a low-awareness big man, but he may yet be successful in the NBA also.
But by your own admission, with lesser skiulls, athleticism and play style but a similar low basketball IQ then there's every reason to believe Vonleh won't develop as quickly and probably not develop to be as good a player as Drummond is now, which is pretty good but extremely flawed.

I happen to think Vonleh's ceiling is what Derrick Favors is right now and probably not nearly the defensive player Favors is.

I never said lesser skills - I said different ones. In fact, I'd say Vonleh is much more skilled than Drummond was coming out of college. Vonleh has a nice jumper with range, nice post-hooks over both shoulders, is the most dominant per-minute rebounder in college, and blocked a handful of shots. Drummond was just an athletic, run & jump type who underwhelmed at UConn to be honest. Vonleh's athleticism isn't bad, but it just isn't elite. He moves around the court just fine for a big man.

Noah is the youngest (or second youngest) draft eligible player and he is still projected to be top-10 in this class. He obviously still has time to learn and be coached up to his potential. He has a Horford type of game, I think.
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