Author Topic: Does anyone else love Vonleh?  (Read 19591 times)

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Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2014, 09:26:42 AM »

Offline Mr October

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If by "all over the place" you mean injured, I agree.

  I'd probably take him over Randle just because he has length and can protect the rim.  He shows touch as well.  He is a much better shooter at threes than Sully as he shoots .45%.    I think he is a project but he could play stretch four ( for real not pretending like Sully) and C some day and if nothing else be a spot up shooter.

Even though Noah has length with this long arms, I am not convinced he will be a good rim protector in the NBA. He wasn't all that great at it in college, and was often way out of position. He also doesn't elevate or rotate quickly.

He might have about the same defensive impact as Sully in the NBA. Both are long armed, below the rim, kind of slow footed power forwards.

Vonleh does appear to have a nice 3 point shot, but also take note of the small sample. He only hit 16 3s all season. Sullinger also hit 16 3s his last year in college as a sophomore while shooting 40%.

If i was forced into a bet, and barring injury, i would predict Sullinger or Randle to have a better career at power forward over Vonleh. Sully and Randle get the edge due to their aggression around the basket on offense.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2014, 10:34:20 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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If by "all over the place" you mean injured, I agree.

  I'd probably take him over Randle just because he has length and can protect the rim.  He shows touch as well.  He is a much better shooter at threes than Sully as he shoots .45%.    I think he is a project but he could play stretch four ( for real not pretending like Sully) and C some day and if nothing else be a spot up shooter.

Even though Noah has length with this long arms, I am not convinced he will be a good rim protector in the NBA. He wasn't all that great at it in college, and was often way out of position. He also doesn't elevate or rotate quickly.

He might have about the same defensive impact as Sully in the NBA. Both are long armed, below the rim, kind of slow footed power forwards.

Vonleh does appear to have a nice 3 point shot, but also take note of the small sample. He only hit 16 3s all season. Sullinger also hit 16 3s his last year in college as a sophomore while shooting 40%.

If i was forced into a bet, and barring injury, i would predict Sullinger or Randle to have a better career at power forward over Vonleh. Sully and Randle get the edge due to their aggression around the basket on offense.

Agree."..my instincts say t take Randle .  He is not a bust at the 6 or above pick .  Guy is going to play in the NBA .  He is sturdy , comes from good stock , and has the right attitude .  While there maybe ten guys or more have greater potential like Parker , Smart , Wiggins etc......I see Randle as the safe pick , blue collar player willing to do the hard work under the. Rim..  He is sturdy built like Bass or ZBo , Milsap,  .... He ll play many years at sub star level at the minimum risk.   I realize he is not the type of player like Wiggins who might be the next Kobe , but that type of player is a gamble too.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2014, 10:41:35 AM »

Offline Geo123

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Vonleh is not slow footed at all.  He is quick but not off the jump and has poor defensive instincts and is often caught out of position.  With his length, wing span, rebounding ability, youth and upside he's a person that has the opportunity to be very good.  Plus he's got an excellent mid-range jumper.  I agree I'm not sure he'll be a great rim protector, but he will score and run the floor well.  Being a Big 10 fan I watched him play a lot and Crean is terrible as a coach and didn't use him at all correctly.  He will be only 19 years old when the NBA season starts so he has tons of room to grow as a player.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2014, 10:58:30 AM »

Offline Birdman

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Rather have Randle
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2014, 12:00:18 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Even though Noah has length with this long arms, I am not convinced he will be a good rim protector in the NBA. He wasn't all that great at it in college, and was often way out of position. He also doesn't elevate or rotate quickly.

You do realize he had 4 blocks against Wisconsin which had some decent bigs?

I didn't think so.....

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2014, 12:02:48 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

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I think he's got more upside than Randle unless Randle has the quicks to play the 3 and craft an outside game / midrange game.

I just don't know enough about Vonleh. 1/5 chance celts get top 2 and lock down Embiid. That's where I'm at!

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2014, 12:42:08 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Even though Noah has length with this long arms, I am not convinced he will be a good rim protector in the NBA. He wasn't all that great at it in college, and was often way out of position. He also doesn't elevate or rotate quickly.

You do realize he had 4 blocks against Wisconsin which had some decent bigs?

I didn't think so.....

Kris Humphries blocked 4 shots in a game against the Chicago Bulls this year. The Chicago Bulls have better bigs than the Wisconsin Badgers. Blocked shots don't automatically equate to good rim protection. Even then, Vonleh's blocked shots average isn't that high. He is no Embiid on that front.

I saw a bunch of Vonleh games this year. I like him a lot. He belongs in the top 8. He has a lot of potential. He is also very raw on defensive awareness. And i haven't seen anything to suggest that he is going to be one of the top defensive bigs in the NBA. That is hard to predict in an 18 year old.

If he was really projected to be an elite defender, he would be in the mix for a top 4 or even 3 pick.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2014, 12:43:04 PM »

Offline HomerSapien

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Vonleh would be my preference at pick #5 and above.  I've been intrigued by his potential for much of the NCAA season, and as a result found myself searching for a lot of Indiana games to watch.  I got a taste of the good and the bad of Vonleh that has been discussed, but also, unfortunately I feel like him playing for Indiana did more to hurt his cause than help it.  Tom Crean appeared to have NO idea how to use him, and they had a bunch of chucker ballhogs who would run the offense for stretches of like 10 minutes at a time where Vonleh got zero touches on the offensive end.  That said, he definitely seems raw on both ends in the post, and is less NBA ready than some of the other 2014 draftees are. 

On the positive, He's got size, he's an excellent rebounder, has good hands, and has a silky smooth shooting touch when facing the basket that already extends beyond the 3 point arc.  Additionally, I think the "he's not athletic" rap is unfair.  I agree that he's not a vertical player, but he seemed extremely agile to me when I watched him and has quick feet.  When he'd end up in a mismatch with a guard, he always looked very comfortable, and was able to stay with his man.  I could see him becoming an excellent positional post defender with enough length and girth to block shots, albeit without the swatting proficiency of say a Dwight Howard-type center (similar style to an Omar Asik maybe?).

On the negative side, he is very raw and rough on both ends in the post.  While athletically there were many times where he looked graceful, there were just as many times where he looked clumsy and unsure down low.  I want to blame some of that on Tom Crean, but I do think that's where the "bad feel for the game" and "low BBIQ" criticisms kick in and are definitely real factors as to why he has more bust potential than other guys IMO.  He's more high risk/high reward.

Finally, his intangibles are supposed to be good.  From what I've heard he is a smart kid, a gym rat, and is very coachable.  Those factors are why I'm optimistic he can improve on the definite holes he currently has in his game and would take a chance on him at 5 over Randle and Gordon.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2014, 12:51:00 PM »

Offline Mr October

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I think he's got more upside than Randle unless Randle has the quicks to play the 3 and craft an outside game / midrange game.

I just don't know enough about Vonleh. 1/5 chance celts get top 2 and lock down Embiid. That's where I'm at!

It all depends on what is going on between their ears. And just how hungry they are to win and work hard. That stuff we can't really measure yet.

Right now i give Randle the edge. The guy is built like a tank, moves his feet well, and is very aggressive around the basket. He was so dominant, even as a teenager, that he required being double and triple teamed. If he develops a jumpshot i think he becomes an all star.

He also passes better than Vonleh.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2014, 12:53:10 PM »

Offline HomerSapien

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I also meant to add that I am anxious for the combine, as I think his measurements, speed, vertical, etc. will help a lot in zeroing in on his stock.  If he's grown an inch as some will do at age 18, that does wonders for the NBA position he projects to play.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2014, 12:56:18 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Not feeling it with Vonleh and think it will be a mistake.

1. He's a PF I don't care how many people feel he can play center, he will play poorly at center in the NBA and get crushed. He needs to be playing FP in order to develop.

2. He's very raw, even by one and done measures. His footwork is not good, his low post moves stiff and simple, his defense more lateral based than vertically based and even then not elite only good.

3. He gets lost out there on both ends of the floor at times like he is thinking through where he should be going instead of knowing where he should be.

4. Not a lot of explosion off his first step or standing jump.

Of the one and dones coming out this year he might take the longest to reach his potential but might show enough mediocrity over time to convince some GM to hold o to him a while feeling that the max potential can still come. Then it won't. Overall I just do not see a very high ceiling with so many faults and think that with two young developing PFs, adding another with only the upside as good as the current players that adding Vonleh would be a mistake. If you try to trade him later on, the Celtics will never recoup the loss that is the high pick they have in this year's draft.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2014, 01:00:45 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Vonleh would be my preference at pick #5 and above.  I've been intrigued by his potential for much of the NCAA season, and as a result found myself searching for a lot of Indiana games to watch.  I got a taste of the good and the bad of Vonleh that has been discussed, but also, unfortunately I feel like him playing for Indiana did more to hurt his cause than help it.  Tom Crean appeared to have NO idea how to use him, and they had a bunch of chucker ballhogs who would run the offense for stretches of like 10 minutes at a time where Vonleh got zero touches on the offensive end.  That said, he definitely seems raw on both ends in the post, and is less NBA ready than some of the other 2014 draftees are. 

On the positive, He's got size, he's an excellent rebounder, has good hands, and has a silky smooth shooting touch when facing the basket that already extends beyond the 3 point arc.  Additionally, I think the "he's not athletic" rap is unfair.  I agree that he's not a vertical player, but he seemed extremely agile to me when I watched him and has quick feet.  When he'd end up in a mismatch with a guard, he always looked very comfortable, and was able to stay with his man.  I could see him becoming an excellent positional post defender with enough length and girth to block shots, albeit without the swatting proficiency of say a Dwight Howard-type center (similar style to an Omar Asik maybe?).

On the negative side, he is very raw and rough on both ends in the post.  While athletically there were many times where he looked graceful, there were just as many times where he looked clumsy and unsure down low.  I want to blame some of that on Tom Crean, but I do think that's where the "bad feel for the game" and "low BBIQ" criticisms kick in and are definitely real factors as to why he has more bust potential than other guys IMO.  He's more high risk/high reward.

Finally, his intangibles are supposed to be good.  From what I've heard he is a smart kid, a gym rat, and is very coachable.  Those factors are why I'm optimistic he can improve on the definite holes he currently has in his game and would take a chance on him at 5 over Randle and Gordon.

I agree with just about everything you are saying. I saw what you saw. And the Randle, Gordon, Vonleh argument is super close. I trust Ainge to make the right decision. He has way more info on these guys than we do.

I hated seeing his teammates not give him the ball. It was as if they all thought they were Kobe Bryant or Allen Iverson out there.

One more note :In that 5-8 range, i feel like Vonleh as the highest ceiling and lowest floor.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2014, 01:23:31 PM »

Offline HomerSapien

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I agree with just about everything you are saying. I saw what you saw. And the Randle, Gordon, Vonleh argument is super close. I trust Ainge to make the right decision. He has way more info on these guys than we do.

I hated seeing his teammates not give him the ball. It was as if they all thought they were Kobe Bryant or Allen Iverson out there.

One more note :In that 5-8 range, i feel like Vonleh as the highest ceiling and lowest floor.
After watching all those awful Indiana games, Yogi Ferrell has become my most despised basketball player at both the college and pro level.  Heck, I'll even throw in HS, Jr. High, and elementary school levels too.

Agree on the highest floor/lowest ceiling comment.  I could see him being a multi-appearance all-star at best, and at worst Anthony Randolph.

I think much of Nick's assessment is accurate about Vonleh as well, but I am just more willing to believe that he can actually develop beyond the current flaws rather than just appearing to have untapped potential.  Maybe comparable to high potential frosh picks who had mediocre college performance in recent years such as Derrick Favors and Andre Drummond.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2014, 10:10:01 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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If that's the case, then why did Drummond last all the way to the #9 pick of the draft?  He should have gone top 3 for sure if his physical size plus athletic ability were considered that outstanding.

Here is the top 10 of the 2012 draft:

1.  Anthony Davis
2.  MKG
3.  Bradley Beal
4.  Dion Waiters
5.  Thomas Robinson
6.  Damian Lillard
7.  Harrison Barnes
8.  Terrance Ross
9.  Drummond
10.  Austin Rivers

In any case, I wouldn't compare Vonleh to Drummond.  As an NBA player, I feel he compares best to Chris Bosh.  And getting a Bosh type is well worth a top 8 pick.

Drummond's physical stats were off the charts almost everywhere, though. Like insane. 6'10, 275 and ridiculous hops and strength for that size. It's very rare to get that in an NBA center. Physically, he is/was a Dwight clone for the most part. I'd have happily traded Pierce to have a pick that could of taken him. Love Paul, but even at the time I was all in on that idea.

I'm not advocating for not drafting Vonleh if we're at 6, or even 5 (No brainier at 7) but he doesn't have those drool worthy physical stats Drummond had. You can't find what Drummond has everyday.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2014, 10:36:03 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Ive never seen him play. Is he a good shot blocker? Ive read about his offensive his potential but nothing on defense.
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