Author Topic: Does anyone else love Vonleh?  (Read 19590 times)

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Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2014, 10:32:25 AM »

Offline Galeto

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I liked Vonleh a lot more in high school.  At Indiana, he seemed gun shy for some reason.  In the games I watched, his shot attempts were not indicative of the number of opportunities h got.  For some reason he would execute several moves to create a nice scoring chance for himself and then pass it off to a teammate who didn't have a clear shot available.  It was bizarre in and of itself but also because he was an aggressive scorer in high school.  It seemed like he was afraid of failing. 

At any rate, he's a very good rebounder and all-around defender even though players were capable of getting over his length at the rim.  On the high end, his upside might be Lamar Odom: super lengthy, mobile but not overly explosive, perimeter skills. I could also see Taj Gibson, another super lengthy player with the defensive versatility to handle defensive switches onto perimeter players.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2014, 11:04:02 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I'm going to just be honest and frank.

I don't see the hype around Vonleh at all.

He seems mobile, and has a nice motor full of intensity and hustle, but that can only get you so far... His wingspan of 7'4 is very nice, but he isn't that athletic, well at least from my point of view.

At best he can be a better defending but less as athletic hybrid of Kenneth Faried and Taj Gibson, but for a top 5-7 pick, is that what you really want? If so, why wouldn't we just go with Aaron Gordon, and package trades for a defensive PF/C?

If anything to me... I don't even want us to go near Vonleh...

He doesn't have an impressive offensive game, and from the clips I've seen of him, if it isn't putting back shots, I just don't see him doing as well. I don't think he can be a defensive anchor, because he still has at least 2-3 years to learn or improve on that end.

Hes incredibly raw, and I'm a little confused at the comparsion of Drummond.

Drummond fell, because he was raw, very young, and didn't do well at all his freshman year considering the fact he declared immediately.

He was a uber athletic prospect.

___
I will say though the crazy thing about Noah Vonleh is that... he's only 18 years old.

I do like the fact he went 16-33 of 3pt attempts despite the small sample size, Vonleh has a nifty shooting form, and I do think his ability to rebound will get him far.

He needs a lot of improvement on the defensive end, because while his wingspan allows him to make up for leaving space open, it isn't always going to work with players who have explosive first steps and can finish or create contact.

The NBA is a tough league, so we'll see how he fares 3-4 years from now.

I do believe his highest ceiling could be a hybrid mix of Taj Gibson and Chris Bosh.

If he can work on his footwork in the post, passing, defending, and being able to develop more basketball IQ.

While I started off my post negative, I do think the factor that should be key is the age of Vonleh.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 11:10:30 AM by Monkhouse »
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Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2014, 12:11:48 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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I'm going to just be honest and frank.

I don't see the hype around Vonleh at all.

He seems mobile, and has a nice motor full of intensity and hustle, but that can only get you so far... His wingspan of 7'4 is very nice, but he isn't that athletic, well at least from my point of view.

At best he can be a better defending but less as athletic hybrid of Kenneth Faried and Taj Gibson, but for a top 5-7 pick, is that what you really want? If so, why wouldn't we just go with Aaron Gordon, and package trades for a defensive PF/C?

If anything to me... I don't even want us to go near Vonleh...

He doesn't have an impressive offensive game, and from the clips I've seen of him, if it isn't putting back shots, I just don't see him doing as well. I don't think he can be a defensive anchor, because he still has at least 2-3 years to learn or improve on that end.

Hes incredibly raw, and I'm a little confused at the comparsion of Drummond.

Drummond fell, because he was raw, very young, and didn't do well at all his freshman year considering the fact he declared immediately.

He was a uber athletic prospect.

___
I will say though the crazy thing about Noah Vonleh is that... he's only 18 years old.

I do like the fact he went 16-33 of 3pt attempts despite the small sample size, Vonleh has a nifty shooting form, and I do think his ability to rebound will get him far.

He needs a lot of improvement on the defensive end, because while his wingspan allows him to make up for leaving space open, it isn't always going to work with players who have explosive first steps and can finish or create contact.

The NBA is a tough league, so we'll see how he fares 3-4 years from now.

I do believe his highest ceiling could be a hybrid mix of Taj Gibson and Chris Bosh.

If he can work on his footwork in the post, passing, defending, and being able to develop more basketball IQ.

While I started off my post negative, I do think the factor that should be key is the age of Vonleh.

This.

So to answer the OP's question, no.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #63 on: April 21, 2014, 12:55:38 PM »

Offline McHales Pits

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I'm going to just be honest and frank.

I don't see the hype around Vonleh at all.

He seems mobile, and has a nice motor full of intensity and hustle, but that can only get you so far... His wingspan of 7'4 is very nice, but he isn't that athletic, well at least from my point of view.

At best he can be a better defending but less as athletic hybrid of Kenneth Faried and Taj Gibson, but for a top 5-7 pick, is that what you really want? If so, why wouldn't we just go with Aaron Gordon, and package trades for a defensive PF/C?

If anything to me... I don't even want us to go near Vonleh...

He doesn't have an impressive offensive game, and from the clips I've seen of him, if it isn't putting back shots, I just don't see him doing as well. I don't think he can be a defensive anchor, because he still has at least 2-3 years to learn or improve on that end.

Hes incredibly raw, and I'm a little confused at the comparsion of Drummond.

Drummond fell, because he was raw, very young, and didn't do well at all his freshman year considering the fact he declared immediately.

He was a uber athletic prospect.

___
I will say though the crazy thing about Noah Vonleh is that... he's only 18 years old.

I do like the fact he went 16-33 of 3pt attempts despite the small sample size, Vonleh has a nifty shooting form, and I do think his ability to rebound will get him far.

He needs a lot of improvement on the defensive end, because while his wingspan allows him to make up for leaving space open, it isn't always going to work with players who have explosive first steps and can finish or create contact.

The NBA is a tough league, so we'll see how he fares 3-4 years from now.

I do believe his highest ceiling could be a hybrid mix of Taj Gibson and Chris Bosh.

If he can work on his footwork in the post, passing, defending, and being able to develop more basketball IQ.

While I started off my post negative, I do think the factor that should be key is the age of Vonleh.

I think a lot of this post just isn't true and I question how much you have seen of the player in discussion.

Bold #1 : Noah clearly has shooting range and neither of the players you mentioned shoot the ball from outside of 10 feet. Gibson is a rangy, P&R defender so if Vonleh was a better defender than him, that would be impressive. Nothing about Faried resembles Vonleh's game.

Bold #2 : As a great rebounder, naturally put backs are apart of his offensive game - so you shouldn't punish him for that. This isn't a Faried/Varejao put-back clone we are talking about. Vonleh can put his back to the basket and deliver hook shots/running floaters with either hand or face up/spot up and drop jumpers out the the college three point line.

Bold #3 : The comparison to Drummond was solely IQ related. Generally players who have low assist totals and have some slow defensive rotations have their court awareness called out. Both of these players suffered the same criticisms in this regard and I was just pointing out that it worked out for Drummond, so the potential exists that it could work out for a smart/hard working/skilled player like Vonleh.

Bold #4: Yes, he does need more playing time to improve his defensive instincts - but he still averaged nearly a steal and block and a half per game in 25 minutes of playing time. Per-40, he averaged over 2 blocks per game. Not so shabby. I should also add that his Defensive Rating (or points allowed per 100 possessions) was equivalent to Embiid's (low 90's) this season.

Bold #5 : That sounds like a pretty darn good player...you don't want that with a pick from 5-10?

I believe the IQ issues with him are purely related to his age. The more experience with organized basketball he gets, the better he should become at making smart passes/seeing the open man and being a smarter team defender. In regards to someone else pointed out his tentativeness, again I refer to the age. As a young player (it happens to rookies in the NBA - see Olynyk), you don't want to miss shots or seem selfish to your teammates so you can give up on easy looks and lack aggressiveness on the offensive end. As he plays more (and if he plays with a good passing PG), that issue could be resolved. I think he has the skills, the skillset, the toughness, the size, and the work ethic to succeed in the NBA. I don't think it will be immediate, but in the right situation he could definitely be a Horford-Bosh type player and you would be ecstatic for that with a top-10 pick.
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Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2014, 01:40:22 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I'm going to just be honest and frank.

I don't see the hype around Vonleh at all.

He seems mobile, and has a nice motor full of intensity and hustle, but that can only get you so far... His wingspan of 7'4 is very nice, but he isn't that athletic, well at least from my point of view.

At best he can be a better defending but less as athletic hybrid of Kenneth Faried and Taj Gibson, but for a top 5-7 pick, is that what you really want? If so, why wouldn't we just go with Aaron Gordon, and package trades for a defensive PF/C?

If anything to me... I don't even want us to go near Vonleh...

He doesn't have an impressive offensive game, and from the clips I've seen of him, if it isn't putting back shots, I just don't see him doing as well. I don't think he can be a defensive anchor, because he still has at least 2-3 years to learn or improve on that end.

Hes incredibly raw, and I'm a little confused at the comparsion of Drummond.

Drummond fell, because he was raw, very young, and didn't do well at all his freshman year considering the fact he declared immediately.

He was a uber athletic prospect.

___
I will say though the crazy thing about Noah Vonleh is that... he's only 18 years old.

I do like the fact he went 16-33 of 3pt attempts despite the small sample size, Vonleh has a nifty shooting form, and I do think his ability to rebound will get him far.

He needs a lot of improvement on the defensive end, because while his wingspan allows him to make up for leaving space open, it isn't always going to work with players who have explosive first steps and can finish or create contact.

The NBA is a tough league, so we'll see how he fares 3-4 years from now.

I do believe his highest ceiling could be a hybrid mix of Taj Gibson and Chris Bosh.

If he can work on his footwork in the post, passing, defending, and being able to develop more basketball IQ.

While I started off my post negative, I do think the factor that should be key is the age of Vonleh.

I think a lot of this post just isn't true and I question how much you have seen of the player in discussion.

Bold #1 : Noah clearly has shooting range and neither of the players you mentioned shoot the ball from outside of 10 feet. Gibson is a rangy, P&R defender so if Vonleh was a better defender than him, that would be impressive. Nothing about Faried resembles Vonleh's game.

Bold #2 : As a great rebounder, naturally put backs are apart of his offensive game - so you shouldn't punish him for that. This isn't a Faried/Varejao put-back clone we are talking about. Vonleh can put his back to the basket and deliver hook shots/running floaters with either hand or face up/spot up and drop jumpers out the the college three point line.

Bold #3 : The comparison to Drummond was solely IQ related. Generally players who have low assist totals and have some slow defensive rotations have their court awareness called out. Both of these players suffered the same criticisms in this regard and I was just pointing out that it worked out for Drummond, so the potential exists that it could work out for a smart/hard working/skilled player like Vonleh.

Bold #4: Yes, he does need more playing time to improve his defensive instincts - but he still averaged nearly a steal and block and a half per game in 25 minutes of playing time. Per-40, he averaged over 2 blocks per game. Not so shabby. I should also add that his Defensive Rating (or points allowed per 100 possessions) was equivalent to Embiid's (low 90's) this season.

Bold #5 : That sounds like a pretty darn good player...you don't want that with a pick from 5-10?

I believe the IQ issues with him are purely related to his age. The more experience with organized basketball he gets, the better he should become at making smart passes/seeing the open man and being a smarter team defender. In regards to someone else pointed out his tentativeness, again I refer to the age. As a young player (it happens to rookies in the NBA - see Olynyk), you don't want to miss shots or seem selfish to your teammates so you can give up on easy looks and lack aggressiveness on the offensive end. As he plays more (and if he plays with a good passing PG), that issue could be resolved. I think he has the skills, the skillset, the toughness, the size, and the work ethic to succeed in the NBA. I don't think it will be immediate, but in the right situation he could definitely be a Horford-Bosh type player and you would be ecstatic for that with a top-10 pick.

I've watched plenty of his games. I just don't see all this hype. Yes his ceiling is great; if he can reach it.

And I agree with Vonleh having a great shot, I just think hes going to need 2-3 years to fully develop.

I wasn't even saying anything negative about his offensive putbacks, I just don't see anything impressive right now. The great thing about Vonleh is that his age is something most teams would drool over for.

While I will say Vonleh could definitely have the potential to be a great player, I think Vonleh lack of explosiveness/current basketball IQ will affect him in the future.

I still don't want us to draft Vonleh though... Especially if we don't hit the top 4 picks, I just don't consider Vonleh a top 5 prospect.
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Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #65 on: April 21, 2014, 02:14:01 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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And frankly, if we don't hit the top 4 picks, I want to trade the pick.

The fascination with this guy escapes me.  Entirely.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #66 on: April 21, 2014, 02:15:23 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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His mother, probably.
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Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #67 on: April 21, 2014, 02:23:42 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Best case horace grant/bosh pf/c
Realistic - a good rebounding pf/c, ok rim protector,with a jump shot

Worse case- a longer james mcadoo . Turnover prone, tunnel vision

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #68 on: April 21, 2014, 02:37:09 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Best case horace grant/bosh pf/c
Realistic - a good rebounding pf/c, ok rim protector,with a jump shot

Worse case- a longer james mcadoo . Turnover prone, tunnel vision
You do James McAdoo the guy that hasn't even played an NBA game yet? So are you saying a Vonleh worst case is a complete washout who can't play NBA basketball?

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #69 on: April 21, 2014, 02:59:25 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Best case horace grant/bosh pf/c
Realistic - a good rebounding pf/c, ok rim protector,with a jump shot

Worse case- a longer james mcadoo . Turnover prone, tunnel vision
You do James McAdoo the guy that hasn't even played an NBA game yet? So are you saying a Vonleh worst case is a complete washout who can't play NBA basketball?

yup. Look at Mcadoo stats in college and his progression. Worse case Vonleh doesn't develop further and stays turnover prone, tunnel vision.  Both guys have mediocre iq's + good bodies, length and skill
 

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #70 on: April 21, 2014, 03:39:57 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Best case horace grant/bosh pf/c
Realistic - a good rebounding pf/c, ok rim protector,with a jump shot

Worse case- a longer james mcadoo . Turnover prone, tunnel vision
You do James McAdoo the guy that hasn't even played an NBA game yet? So are you saying a Vonleh worst case is a complete washout who can't play NBA basketball?

yup. Look at Mcadoo stats in college and his progression. Worse case Vonleh doesn't develop further and stays turnover prone, tunnel vision.  Both guys have mediocre iq's + good bodies, length and skill
Thanks for clearing that up. Got kind of confused when you just didn't say worst case scenario, complete bust rather than pointing to a college player who never played in the league as a comparison.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #71 on: April 21, 2014, 04:52:52 PM »

Offline Mr October

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And frankly, if we don't hit the top 4 picks, I want to trade the pick.

The fascination with this guy escapes me.  Entirely.

A lot of people want to trade the pick if it lands in the 5-8 range. What do you trade it for?

I could see possibly trading down another 5 spots to around 11 and drafting a shooting guard, while picking up a future pick.

I dont see a star player being attainable for that pick though.

Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #72 on: April 21, 2014, 04:57:50 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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And frankly, if we don't hit the top 4 picks, I want to trade the pick.

The fascination with this guy escapes me.  Entirely.

A lot of people want to trade the pick if it lands in the 5-8 range. What do you trade it for?

I could see possibly trading down another 5 spots to around 11 and drafting a shooting guard, while picking up a future pick.

I dont see a star player being attainable for that pick though.

I'd trade pick 8 and Gerald Wallace for Eric Gordon.
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Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2014, 05:07:46 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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And frankly, if we don't hit the top 4 picks, I want to trade the pick.

The fascination with this guy escapes me.  Entirely.

A lot of people want to trade the pick if it lands in the 5-8 range. What do you trade it for?

I could see possibly trading down another 5 spots to around 11 and drafting a shooting guard, while picking up a future pick.

I dont see a star player being attainable for that pick though.

I'd trade pick 8 and Gerald Wallace for Eric Gordon.

Why do that if obtaining Eric Gordon would only take the Clippers pick, and probably the 2nd rounder? The Pelicans are dying to get rid of him...
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
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Re: Does anyone else love Vonleh?
« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2014, 05:12:15 PM »

Offline Mr October

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And frankly, if we don't hit the top 4 picks, I want to trade the pick.

The fascination with this guy escapes me.  Entirely.

A lot of people want to trade the pick if it lands in the 5-8 range. What do you trade it for?

I could see possibly trading down another 5 spots to around 11 and drafting a shooting guard, while picking up a future pick.

I dont see a star player being attainable for that pick though.

I'd trade pick 8 and Gerald Wallace for Eric Gordon.

Interesting idea. Admittedly i am not a big fan of Eric Gordon, especially at his price tag. I would rather play Bradley and Johnson for much lower dollars.

I certainly wouldn't risk losing Aaron Gordon or Randle in order to land Eric Gordon.