Author Topic: Kelly is legit  (Read 12536 times)

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Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2014, 11:57:39 AM »

Offline vinnie

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Perimeter 4 is a pretty well defined role in winning basketball in today's NBA and its one that goes further back than most people think with all the bemoaning of the demise of post play.

So Raef LaFrentz then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTIrG1Xn1Jk

TP for the link.  While Olynyk will never be as good as Pettit even if he reaches his ceiling, their games look kinda similar from those clips.

Too bad Kelly is playing in the 21st century and not the 1950's - 60's. Think it is fair to say the game has changed slightly....

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2014, 12:22:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Regarding the "who should start, KO or Sully?' debate, I don't think it matters. With a rim protecting center next to them they will both be much better players than they are today. Sullinger is a better defender and rebounder. He is stronger and gets better inital position in the post and has stronger post moves. KO is a better passer and long range shooter who has a better handle for playing a more perimeter based game.

Both are natural power forwards just different types of power forwards.

I also wouldn't put too much stock in comparing this year's stats with both players. Sully was recovering from surgery, struggled with his hand for a while and needs an off season of conditioning badly and that showed towards the end of the season. Sully also played out of position for much of the year.  Olynyk had a putrid start to the season adjusting to the speed of the game and gaining confidence in his shot but came on in the end. He also needs an off season to work on his body and try to master the defensive system, as his defense will definitely hold him back from being all he can be. So he needs to work on being the best team defender he can be because his deficiencies physically will always hold him back from being a great individual defender.

Get a defensive anchor, rim protecting center and play Sully at his natural position and allow that center to hide Olynyk's defense problems and I think both players could reach their maximum potential. But that will be up to them. They both have a lot of off the court work to do with weight training, diet, and cardiovascular work. And on top of that they must refine their games and figure out ways to overcome the way defenses will defend them next year after getting a year of film to break down and learn about them. Every year they MUST add something new to the repertoire.

Who starts and who doesn't doesn't matter to me. between those two and a rim protecting center, get all three players 32 minutes per game. Sure KO and Sully will have to play with each other for a period of time each game but 6 minutes playing together a half won't kill this team's chances of winning games.

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2014, 12:59:54 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Regarding the "who should start, KO or Sully?' debate, I don't think it matters. With a rim protecting center next to them they will both be much better players than they are today. Sullinger is a better defender and rebounder. He is stronger and gets better inital position in the post and has stronger post moves. KO is a better passer and long range shooter who has a better handle for playing a more perimeter based game.

Both are natural power forwards just different types of power forwards.

I also wouldn't put too much stock in comparing this year's stats with both players. Sully was recovering from surgery, struggled with his hand for a while and needs an off season of conditioning badly and that showed towards the end of the season. Sully also played out of position for much of the year.  Olynyk had a putrid start to the season adjusting to the speed of the game and gaining confidence in his shot but came on in the end. He also needs an off season to work on his body and try to master the defensive system, as his defense will definitely hold him back from being all he can be. So he needs to work on being the best team defender he can be because his deficiencies physically will always hold him back from being a great individual defender.

Get a defensive anchor, rim protecting center and play Sully at his natural position and allow that center to hide Olynyk's defense problems and I think both players could reach their maximum potential. But that will be up to them. They both have a lot of off the court work to do with weight training, diet, and cardiovascular work. And on top of that they must refine their games and figure out ways to overcome the way defenses will defend them next year after getting a year of film to break down and learn about them. Every year they MUST add something new to the repertoire.

Who starts and who doesn't doesn't matter to me. between those two and a rim protecting center, get all three players 32 minutes per game. Sure KO and Sully will have to play with each other for a period of time each game but 6 minutes playing together a half won't kill this team's chances of winning games.

I'd love to keep both.   It seems to me, though, that to get that rim protecting center that we might have to send out one of those guys to facilitate making that happen.

DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2014, 01:29:40 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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Regarding the "who should start, KO or Sully?' debate, I don't think it matters. With a rim protecting center next to them they will both be much better players than they are today. Sullinger is a better defender and rebounder. He is stronger and gets better inital position in the post and has stronger post moves. KO is a better passer and long range shooter who has a better handle for playing a more perimeter based game.

Both are natural power forwards just different types of power forwards.

I also wouldn't put too much stock in comparing this year's stats with both players. Sully was recovering from surgery, struggled with his hand for a while and needs an off season of conditioning badly and that showed towards the end of the season. Sully also played out of position for much of the year.  Olynyk had a putrid start to the season adjusting to the speed of the game and gaining confidence in his shot but came on in the end. He also needs an off season to work on his body and try to master the defensive system, as his defense will definitely hold him back from being all he can be. So he needs to work on being the best team defender he can be because his deficiencies physically will always hold him back from being a great individual defender.

Get a defensive anchor, rim protecting center and play Sully at his natural position and allow that center to hide Olynyk's defense problems and I think both players could reach their maximum potential. But that will be up to them. They both have a lot of off the court work to do with weight training, diet, and cardiovascular work. And on top of that they must refine their games and figure out ways to overcome the way defenses will defend them next year after getting a year of film to break down and learn about them. Every year they MUST add something new to the repertoire.

Who starts and who doesn't doesn't matter to me. between those two and a rim protecting center, get all three players 32 minutes per game. Sure KO and Sully will have to play with each other for a period of time each game but 6 minutes playing together a half won't kill this team's chances of winning games.

I'd love to keep both.   It seems to me, though, that to get that rim protecting center that we might have to send out one of those guys to facilitate making that happen.

That's my thought process and I'd assume Sullinger has more trade value around the league than Olynyk right now, but who knows.  Olynyk just kept getting better and better as the season went.  He's really got the 3 pt stroke rolling right now and in the future could easily do damage there at a 38-42 % clip.  The guy got use to the line as the season went on.  He's only going to get better there.

With Olynyk's overall game, the shooting, spreading the floor, passing, always looking for the right play, etc.  I think I'd keep him because I think he's better for the overall team scheme of things, while Sullinger doesn't do the same things Kelly can.  Both were virtually in year 1 so who knows what both could become in the long run.

Sullinger plus picks could net you a pretty darn good player in return.


Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2014, 02:21:29 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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That's my thought process and I'd assume Sullinger has more trade value around the league than Olynyk right now, but who knows.  Olynyk just kept getting better and better as the season went.  He's really got the 3 pt stroke rolling right now and in the future could easily do damage there at a 38-42 % clip.  The guy got use to the line as the season went on.  He's only going to get better there.

I suspect different teams will have different preferences.  I think Sullinger is more of a sure thing in the short term but Olynyk has a higher ceiling in the long run.  If you were a playoff team who needed a dependable big, you might prefer Sullinger but if you were a rebuilding team that is a few seasons away from competing, the Olynyk project might be more attractive.

Olynyk's value also depends heavily on how much his problems on defense stem from inexperience due to not having been a big man for very long and how much is due to physical limitations.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2014, 02:29:35 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Perimeter 4 is a pretty well defined role in winning basketball in today's NBA and its one that goes further back than most people think with all the bemoaning of the demise of post play.

So Raef LaFrentz then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTIrG1Xn1Jk

TP for the link.  While Olynyk will never be as good as Pettit even if he reaches his ceiling, their games look kinda similar from those clips.

Too bad Kelly is playing in the 21st century and not the 1950's - 60's. Think it is fair to say the game has changed slightly....

Just a little bit, though.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2014, 02:36:32 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Perimeter 4 is a pretty well defined role in winning basketball in today's NBA and its one that goes further back than most people think with all the bemoaning of the demise of post play.

So Raef LaFrentz then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTIrG1Xn1Jk

TP for the link.  While Olynyk will never be as good as Pettit even if he reaches his ceiling, their games look kinda similar from those clips.

Too bad Kelly is playing in the 21st century and not the 1950's - 60's. Think it is fair to say the game has changed slightly....

Kelly aside, Bob Pettit would still be at minimum an All-Star in today's league.  I picture him as kind of an upper-middle-class man's Dirk with a stronger focus on rebounding and post play.

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2014, 03:27:10 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Perimeter 4 is a pretty well defined role in winning basketball in today's NBA and its one that goes further back than most people think with all the bemoaning of the demise of post play.

So Raef LaFrentz then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTIrG1Xn1Jk

TP for the link.  While Olynyk will never be as good as Pettit even if he reaches his ceiling, their games look kinda similar from those clips.

Too bad Kelly is playing in the 21st century and not the 1950's - 60's. Think it is fair to say the game has changed slightly....

Kelly aside, Bob Pettit would still be at minimum an All-Star in today's league.  I picture him as kind of an upper-middle-class man's Dirk with a stronger focus on rebounding and post play.
All depends on if he could shoot 3s, not sure how far his jumper went out. He clearly could shoot though but stretching to 3 makes a player so much more valuable now a days.

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2014, 03:47:58 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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Perimeter 4 is a pretty well defined role in winning basketball in today's NBA and its one that goes further back than most people think with all the bemoaning of the demise of post play.

So Raef LaFrentz then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTIrG1Xn1Jk

TP for the link.  While Olynyk will never be as good as Pettit even if he reaches his ceiling, their games look kinda similar from those clips.

Too bad Kelly is playing in the 21st century and not the 1950's - 60's. Think it is fair to say the game has changed slightly....

Kelly aside, Bob Pettit would still be at minimum an All-Star in today's league.  I picture him as kind of an upper-middle-class man's Dirk with a stronger focus on rebounding and post play.
All depends on if he could shoot 3s, not sure how far his jumper went out. He clearly could shoot though but stretching to 3 makes a player so much more valuable now a days.

I was extremely impressed with how Kelly shot the 3 ball.  My word, this guy was never asked at Gonzaga to shoot outside of 15 ft, let alone from NBA 3 pt range.  To shoot it the way he did was extremely impressive.

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2014, 05:27:37 PM »

Offline dysgenic

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Grill me if you want but I like him more than Sullinger right now and most likely moving forward.

Kelly has been rebounding at about and equal clip, maybe just a hair less than Sullinger and being quite a bit better, more efficient offensively. I don't know if Kelly is "legit" but I'd take him above Sully at the moment.

Are you kidding me?  Kelly is going to be much better than Sullinger.  Kelly has something you can't coach- size! 

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2014, 05:33:34 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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great news. as long we either KO or faverani panned out i'm happy. looks like it was KO.
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Kelly is legit, he surprised me the last 5 meaningless games, but....
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2014, 05:49:35 PM »

Offline PatMan5000

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Kelly is legit, he surprised me the last 5 meaningless games, but....Dirk or Bird he is not, more like a Kris Humphries type with an outside game no inside game. 15ppg 10 rbp. 2.0 3pt's per game, per 38 minuets. If he plays the whole game, or most of it, he can score but he plays. at best bad defense , unless he gains some muscle, time will tell. If Kelly can put on 20 lbs of muscle like Kris Humphries he could be a force at PF.

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2014, 06:06:51 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Olynyk made 65.5% of his 203 attempts within three feet of the basket.  For comparison, Sullinger made 59.9% of 279 attempts, Humphries 63.6% of 132 attempts, and Bass 60.2% of 254 attempts.

Among players with 150+ layup attempts, Olynyk ranked 12th in FG% on layups, between Blake Griffin and Al Jefferson.
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Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2014, 06:07:40 PM »

Offline nacceltic

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The one thing we can't forget about KO is his background...He was a PG, until around his junior season in high school, before he had a seven-inch growth spurt out of nowhere.  Because of that growth spurt, he was criticized during his early years at Gonzaga for being too slender and not "banging around" enough down low.  So, he's only been used to his current body (after he put on weight as a 'Zag) for about two or three years....and, that's counting his first year in the NBA.  This is someone who had to completely reconfigure himself as a basketball player and has done so, improving during every step.  Every time he's gotten more minutes, no matter the level, he's improved...His first with the Celtics was only the latest example. 

As far as his defense, no one should ever expect him to be a rim protecting beast.  However, his BBIQ is so high, that he should be at least an average defender within the next two years.  He will beat guys to spots because he'll read the rotations, he'll know when to help and he'll adjust to how the NBA game is called.  Smarts wasn't what I questioned about him defensively when he came in; it was aggression and his desire to get "dirty" in the paint.  I saw improvements in both of those areas throughout the year.

I'm not saying Olynyk is the next big thing...I'm not sure his ceiling can even be specified yet....What I am saying is this: KO is a legit 7', with legit 3 point NBA range, has a unique/skilled offensive post game, who is extremely basketball smart/savy, who improved his tenacity and rebounding through his first 82...If he can work on his game on the defensive side and keep up his conditioning, he's a starting stretch-4 in this league.

And that, with the 13th pick in a down draft, I'll take every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Re: Kelly is legit
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2014, 06:21:15 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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What has impressed me most from Kelly down the stretch of the season is his ability to beat people off the dribble.  To me, that's the skill that gives him the potential to be a special player. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson