Author Topic: Has Doc Rivers disproven the claims his detractors made about him this year?  (Read 15146 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BigAlTheFuture

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6360
  • Tommy Points: 458
Alvin Gentry... yes

Doc cannot do anything without running to get HC caliber talent on his bench.

Lol. This is just blind hate. While I do think Doc is an overrated coach, you're just selling him short with that statement.
PHX Suns: Russell Westbrook, Chris Bosh, Tristan Thompson, Trevor Ariza, Tony Allen, Trey Lyles, Corey Brewer, Larry Nance Jr., Trey Burke, Troy Daniels, Joffrey Lauvergne, Justin Holiday, Mike Muscala, 14.6

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
Why would a good coach want to surround himself with idiots?
To prove how amazing he is.

Mark Jackson school of thought!

Hey, don't be mean to Scal.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30859
  • Tommy Points: 1327
Why would a good coach want to surround himself with idiots?
To prove how amazing he is.

Mark Jackson school of thought!

Hey, don't be mean to Scal.
How am I being mean?

Scal had to go because his intellect distracted from the Sun that is Mark Jackson!

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
Right -- forgot that Scal was given the boot.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline staticcc

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 518
  • Tommy Points: 38
Doc not only relies on veteran players he also relies on veteran coaches. Look at his bench and you will see that he hired a very good HC  material assistant coach who is probably responsible for the real coaching just like Thib was responsible for the 88 chip.

Clippers are not winning anything.

Thib was responsible for the 08 chip!? Get out of here with that ish
"The bigger the lie, the more they believe." - Bunk

Offline Chief

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21216
  • Tommy Points: 2450
I do think Doc wanted Rondo to have the ball a lot for the C's, he knew KG/PP couldn't handle the load anymore that they had been shouldering.

With Blake he has another offensive force in his prime to handle, not surprised he pushed CP3 to relinquish control.

Chief: The Clippers still go small a lot, they only have 2 reliable big men (Jordan/Griffin)

I assume Big Baby has not worked out since Doc sent him to the locker room?

I am also assuming Barnes or Granger play the 4 some?

Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30859
  • Tommy Points: 1327
I do think Doc wanted Rondo to have the ball a lot for the C's, he knew KG/PP couldn't handle the load anymore that they had been shouldering.

With Blake he has another offensive force in his prime to handle, not surprised he pushed CP3 to relinquish control.

Chief: The Clippers still go small a lot, they only have 2 reliable big men (Jordan/Griffin)

I assume Big Baby has not worked out since Doc sent him to the locker room?

I am also assuming Barnes or Granger play the 4 some?
BBD is still getting 10-15 MPG but he's rather heavy even for him and can't go much more than that on a team competing for a title.

Hedo Turkoglu get the backup PF minutes and Davis plays backup C from what I've seen. Though I'm sure Dudley/Granger still get occasional looks at the 4 depending on the match up. (I've watched some Clips recently but not a ton)

Offline Chief

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21216
  • Tommy Points: 2450
I do think Doc wanted Rondo to have the ball a lot for the C's, he knew KG/PP couldn't handle the load anymore that they had been shouldering.

With Blake he has another offensive force in his prime to handle, not surprised he pushed CP3 to relinquish control.

Chief: The Clippers still go small a lot, they only have 2 reliable big men (Jordan/Griffin)


I assume Big Baby has not worked out since Doc sent him to the locker room?

I am also assuming Barnes or Granger play the 4 some?
BBD is still getting 10-15 MPG but he's rather heavy even for him and can't go much more than that on a team competing for a title.

Hedo Turkoglu get the backup PF minutes and Davis plays backup C from what I've seen. Though I'm sure Dudley/Granger still get occasional looks at the 4 depending on the match up. (I've watched some Clips recently but not a ton)

Small ball might get you past the Warriors. Not sure from there.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 05:19:08 PM by Chief »
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Offline MBunge

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4661
  • Tommy Points: 471
Vinny DN was 56-26 his last year and might have made a deeper playoff run but for injuries.  And it's not like the West was a cakewalk last season.

Doc will, at best, finish 58-24.

Mike

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
Vinny DN was 56-26 his last year and might have made a deeper playoff run but for injuries.  And it's not like the West was a cakewalk last season.

Doc will, at best, finish 58-24.

Mike

If you don't think that there was a change for the better from VDN to Doc, I present you with this Blake Griffin gem from last year:
Quote
We switch up our defensive principles every game
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9086277/vinny-del-negro-blake-griffin-expect-los-angeles-clippers-defense-improve
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Vinny DN was 56-26 his last year and might have made a deeper playoff run but for injuries.  And it's not like the West was a cakewalk last season.

Doc will, at best, finish 58-24.

Mike

If you don't think that there was a change for the better from VDN to Doc, I present you with this Blake Griffin gem from last year:
Quote
We switch up our defensive principles every game
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9086277/vinny-del-negro-blake-griffin-expect-los-angeles-clippers-defense-improve

   And, almost on cue, it's worth pointing out that their defense was a little better last year than this year.

Offline MBunge

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4661
  • Tommy Points: 471
Vinny DN was 56-26 his last year and might have made a deeper playoff run but for injuries.  And it's not like the West was a cakewalk last season.

Doc will, at best, finish 58-24.

Mike

If you don't think that there was a change for the better from VDN to Doc, I present you with this Blake Griffin gem from last year:
Quote
We switch up our defensive principles every game
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9086277/vinny-del-negro-blake-griffin-expect-los-angeles-clippers-defense-improve

Are their style points in the NBA? 

Mike

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
His detractors largely said that he was a glorified personnel manager who could help a group of highly talented veterans come together and win basketball games but who wasn't very good at designing an offensive system and adapting it to a changing roster or integrating and developing young, inexperienced players.

So honestly, no, he hasn't disproven the claims of his detractors.  The team he's coaching this season is the most talented he's had since the Celtics in the first half of the 08-09 season (i.e. before KG's injury).  I'd say he's simply demonstrated anew what he's capable of when given an experienced, talented roster of that sort.


I'm fairly certain that any average or better coach could have been swapped in for Vinny Del Negro and the Clippers would have appeared much improved.  VDN is just not a good coach.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
Vinny DN was 56-26 his last year and might have made a deeper playoff run but for injuries.  And it's not like the West was a cakewalk last season.

Doc will, at best, finish 58-24.

Mike

If you don't think that there was a change for the better from VDN to Doc, I present you with this Blake Griffin gem from last year:
Quote
We switch up our defensive principles every game
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9086277/vinny-del-negro-blake-griffin-expect-los-angeles-clippers-defense-improve

   And, almost on cue, it's worth pointing out that their defense was a little better last year than this year.

Sort of -- their most played lineups in 2014 have defensive ratings of 99.6 and 98.1. But neither of those have Chris Paul, so they're not a real barometer of the playoff Clippers.

For reference: The best defensive team in the league this year was Indiana, who had a season average defensive rating of 99.4

With Paul, the lineup that logged the most minutes has a defensive rating of 102.5 (for reference, the Celtics had a 107 Drtg for the season this year), but a pace of 117 which is stupid fast -- the fastest team in the league this year was Philly, who had a pace of 99.2

That's the Paul-Collison-Barnes-Blake-DeAndre lineup.

Substituting Collison for Crawford, the team gets even fast (117.5) and gets a defensive boost, a DRtg that'd be good for first in the league with 97.1

Substituting Collison for Paul (having Collison and Crawford on the floor at the same time), the DefRTG goes up all the way to 104, and a Collison-Reddick-Barnes Blake-DeAndre lineup gives up a putrid 109.

All those numbers are points per 100 possessions, by the way.

Compared to 2013, when Chris Paul was healthy for the entirety of the season and they had Eric Bledsoe, the main Clippers lineup (they logged 700 minutes together) of Paul, Willie Green, Caron Butler, Blake and DeAndre had a defensive rating of 103.4

Their second two most played units, with Bledsoe, Odom, Crawford, Turiaf and Mat Barnes, and a terrifying DefRTG of 89.8 over 283 minutes.

Playing one minute less was Billups, Paul, Blake, Jordan, and Caron butler, who had a Defensive Rating of 103.2

So, the biggest takeaway is that the Clippers miss Bledsoe and Caron Butler on defense.

Figures here:
http://stats.nba.com/teamLineups.html?TeamID=1610612746&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=MIN&sortOrder=DES&PerMode=Totals&columnOrder=&MeasureType=Advanced&Season=2012-13


http://stats.nba.com/teamLineups.html?TeamID=1610612746&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=MIN&sortOrder=DES&PerMode=Totals&columnOrder=&MeasureType=Advanced&Season=2013-14

and here
http://bkref.com/tiny/QwGrI
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
For anyone who doesn't like advanced stats, here's the takeaway (which your eye test is going to confirm):

-The Clippers four most commonly played 5-man groups are each better defensively than the Clippers most played unit last year;

-The Clippers miss having Eric Bledsoe on defense, rather than Darren Collison or JJ Reddick;

-They also miss having Caron Butler guarding the wing, rather than Matt Barnes;

-The Clippers are the best offensive team in the NBA this season, but Darren Collison and (to a lesser degree) JJ Reddick dragged them all the way down to 9th in the league on D -- for reference, a coasting, disengaged Miami was worse than them for the season overall, while the Wizards and the Grizzlies were marginally better.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.