Jeff Green: I can't do it alone

[Donoghus]

He's a 3rd/4th banana.  If you trot him out there with an alpha dog & Rondo, then I'm pretty content although its still mind-boogling how he can disappear at times.

The people who thought he was taking to be the next Pierce were completely misguided to begin with.  Those expectations were set too high and were never realistic if you went off his track record.  Very, very rarely does someone flip the switch mid-way through their career and become an alpha dog. 

[Galeto]

He's a 3rd/4th banana.  If you trot him out there with an alpha dog & Rondo, then I'm pretty content although its still mind-boogling how he can disappear at times.

The people who thought he was taking to be the next Pierce were completely misguided to begin with.  Those expectations were set too high and were never realistic if you went off his track record.  Very, very rarely does someone flip the switch mid-way through their career and become an alpha dog.

3rd/4th banana is still way too high.  Take his last year with OKC when that team was maybe 80 percent of its way to its current juggernaut form.  While Green played a ton of minutes and took the third most shots, Harden and Ibaka were far superior players, both in their individual numbers and team on/off.  Even though Collison was "just" a role player, his impact was superior as well.  If Green had actually been the 3rd or 4th banana to a team with a ALPHA player like Durant and an All-NBA talent like Westbrook, they would be way worse.

I just don't see how a player who is a minus in so many categories is good enough to be the 3rd/4th best player of a good team. 

[Donoghus]

He's a 3rd/4th banana.  If you trot him out there with an alpha dog & Rondo, then I'm pretty content although its still mind-boogling how he can disappear at times.

The people who thought he was taking to be the next Pierce were completely misguided to begin with.  Those expectations were set too high and were never realistic if you went off his track record.  Very, very rarely does someone flip the switch mid-way through their career and become an alpha dog.

3rd/4th banana is still way too high.  Take his last year with OKC when that team was maybe 80 percent of its way to its current juggernaut form.  While Green played a ton of minutes and took the third most shots, Harden and Ibaka were far superior players, both in their individual numbers and team on/off.  Even though Collison was "just" a role player, his impact was superior as well.  If Green had actually been the 3rd or 4th banana to a team with a ALPHA player like Durant and an All-NBA talent like Westbrook, they would be way worse.

I just don't see how a player who is a minus in so many categories is good enough to be the 3rd/4th best player of a good team.

If Jeff Green is the 4th best player on your basketball team, then I'm guessing that you're at least a conference finals bound team and a title contender. 

[lon3lytoaster]

No one can do it alone. But Jeff couldn't do it with an all-NBA roster, either so..

When did Jeff have an All-NBA roster?

Last year he was playing behind Pierce and KG, both of whom were a shadow of their former selves come playoff time last season.  It's also worth mentioning that Jeff Green was an absolute BEAST in that playoff run.  He averaged 20 PPG and was arguably the Celtics best offensive player. 

The season before that he missed due to heart surgery.

The season before that he was traded half way through the season and had a inconsistent role with inconsistent minutes.

Jeff Green is not an Alpha-Dog type of player.  He's not a guy who's going to give you 20-25 PPG and be your go-to guy on a good playoff team every night.  If he was that type of guy he'd be getting paid closer to a max contract (around the $13M-$15M / year range).  He's more like an Andre Iguodala type player - a guy who gives you some good defense, while also being a nice #2 or #3 option on offense.  He'll put up 20 points every 2nd or 3rd game, and every now and then he'll explode for 30. 

I think he's played that role very well this season. 

Jeff has scored:

* < 10 points 14 times (17%)
* 10 - 14 points 17 times (21%)
* 15 - 19 points 29  times (35%)
* 20 - 29 points 18 times (22%)
* 30+ points 4 times (5%)

So for those who constantly complain about Jeff's inconsistency, the above stats show that he has scored between 10 - 29 points in 64/82 (78%) games this season. 

Based on the amount of money Green is being paid ($9M / year) and the type of role he is expected to play (#2 - #3 scoring option) I don't see how you could consider those numbers below par.  Especially when you factor in the consistently excellent defense he has played over the course of the season.

People keep looking at Green the wrong way.  Keep saying his production hasn't changed when he's had more talent around him.  That's correct, and it won't change.  I don't think anybody is saying that Jeff Green would be a 20 PPG scorer if he had a go-to guy on the team.  He'd still probably score 16-18 PPG. The difference is that his efficiency (from three and from the field) would likely improve significantly.  So suddenly people would start judging him based on what he is (a #2 option) rather than the current scenario, where people are judging him based on the role he has been forced in to (rather than the role he is realistically suited to).

You can't blame Jeff Green because you have set your expectations too high, and he didn't meet them.  If you expect more from him than he can give (and is being paid to give), then that is your own mistake.  That's no fault of his.

Didn't read that tangent but he couldn't do it with an all-NBA roster meaning if he had it, he still couldn't do it.

[nickagneta]

No one can do it alone. But Jeff couldn't do it with an all-NBA roster, either so..

When did Jeff have an All-NBA roster?

Last year he was playing behind Pierce and KG, both of whom were a shadow of their former selves come playoff time last season.  It's also worth mentioning that Jeff Green was an absolute BEAST in that playoff run.  He averaged 20 PPG and was arguably the Celtics best offensive player. 

The season before that he missed due to heart surgery.

The season before that he was traded half way through the season and had a inconsistent role with inconsistent minutes.

Jeff Green is not an Alpha-Dog type of player.  He's not a guy who's going to give you 20-25 PPG and be your go-to guy on a good playoff team every night.  If he was that type of guy he'd be getting paid closer to a max contract (around the $13M-$15M / year range).  He's more like an Andre Iguodala type player - a guy who gives you some good defense, while also being a nice #2 or #3 option on offense.  He'll put up 20 points every 2nd or 3rd game, and every now and then he'll explode for 30. 

I think he's played that role very well this season. 

Jeff has scored:

* < 10 points 14 times (17%)
* 10 - 14 points 17 times (21%)
* 15 - 19 points 29  times (35%)
* 20 - 29 points 18 times (22%)
* 30+ points 4 times (5%)

So for those who constantly complain about Jeff's inconsistency, the above stats show that he has scored between 10 - 29 points in 64/82 (78%) games this season. 

Based on the amount of money Green is being paid ($9M / year) and the type of role he is expected to play (#2 - #3 scoring option) I don't see how you could consider those numbers below par.  Especially when you factor in the consistently excellent defense he has played over the course of the season.

People keep looking at Green the wrong way.  Keep saying his production hasn't changed when he's had more talent around him.  That's correct, and it won't change.  I don't think anybody is saying that Jeff Green would be a 20 PPG scorer if he had a go-to guy on the team.  He'd still probably score 16-18 PPG. The difference is that his efficiency (from three and from the field) would likely improve significantly.  So suddenly people would start judging him based on what he is (a #2 option) rather than the current scenario, where people are judging him based on the role he has been forced in to (rather than the role he is realistically suited to).

You can't blame Jeff Green because you have set your expectations too high, and he didn't meet them.  If you expect more from him than he can give (and is being paid to give), then that is your own mistake.  That's no fault of his.

Didn't read that tangent but he couldn't do it with an all-NBA roster meaning if he had it, he still couldn't do it.

Do you mean like when he was in OKC and had Durant, Harden, Ibaka and Westbrook?

[lon3lytoaster]

No one can do it alone. But Jeff couldn't do it with an all-NBA roster, either so..

When did Jeff have an All-NBA roster?

Last year he was playing behind Pierce and KG, both of whom were a shadow of their former selves come playoff time last season.  It's also worth mentioning that Jeff Green was an absolute BEAST in that playoff run.  He averaged 20 PPG and was arguably the Celtics best offensive player. 

The season before that he missed due to heart surgery.

The season before that he was traded half way through the season and had a inconsistent role with inconsistent minutes.

Jeff Green is not an Alpha-Dog type of player.  He's not a guy who's going to give you 20-25 PPG and be your go-to guy on a good playoff team every night.  If he was that type of guy he'd be getting paid closer to a max contract (around the $13M-$15M / year range).  He's more like an Andre Iguodala type player - a guy who gives you some good defense, while also being a nice #2 or #3 option on offense.  He'll put up 20 points every 2nd or 3rd game, and every now and then he'll explode for 30. 

I think he's played that role very well this season. 

Jeff has scored:

* < 10 points 14 times (17%)
* 10 - 14 points 17 times (21%)
* 15 - 19 points 29  times (35%)
* 20 - 29 points 18 times (22%)
* 30+ points 4 times (5%)

So for those who constantly complain about Jeff's inconsistency, the above stats show that he has scored between 10 - 29 points in 64/82 (78%) games this season. 

Based on the amount of money Green is being paid ($9M / year) and the type of role he is expected to play (#2 - #3 scoring option) I don't see how you could consider those numbers below par.  Especially when you factor in the consistently excellent defense he has played over the course of the season.

People keep looking at Green the wrong way.  Keep saying his production hasn't changed when he's had more talent around him.  That's correct, and it won't change.  I don't think anybody is saying that Jeff Green would be a 20 PPG scorer if he had a go-to guy on the team.  He'd still probably score 16-18 PPG. The difference is that his efficiency (from three and from the field) would likely improve significantly.  So suddenly people would start judging him based on what he is (a #2 option) rather than the current scenario, where people are judging him based on the role he has been forced in to (rather than the role he is realistically suited to).

You can't blame Jeff Green because you have set your expectations too high, and he didn't meet them.  If you expect more from him than he can give (and is being paid to give), then that is your own mistake.  That's no fault of his.

Didn't read that tangent but he couldn't do it with an all-NBA roster meaning if he had it, he still couldn't do it.

Do you mean like when he was in OKC and had Durant, Harden, Ibaka and Westbrook?

Any time in his career period. I don't think he can be a major cog on a good team.

[Rondo9]

He's a 3rd/4th banana.  If you trot him out there with an alpha dog & Rondo, then I'm pretty content although its still mind-boogling how he can disappear at times.

The people who thought he was taking to be the next Pierce were completely misguided to begin with.  Those expectations were set too high and were never realistic if you went off his track record.  Very, very rarely does someone flip the switch mid-way through their career and become an alpha dog.

3rd/4th banana is still way too high.  Take his last year with OKC when that team was maybe 80 percent of its way to its current juggernaut form.  While Green played a ton of minutes and took the third most shots, Harden and Ibaka were far superior players, both in their individual numbers and team on/off.  Even though Collison was "just" a role player, his impact was superior as well.  If Green had actually been the 3rd or 4th banana to a team with a ALPHA player like Durant and an All-NBA talent like Westbrook, they would be way worse.

I just don't see how a player who is a minus in so many categories is good enough to be the 3rd/4th best player of a good team.

Ibaka was very raw to be playing heavy minutes, besides Jeff Green was playing out of position at the time. Jeff Green is a well rounded player who can be at best the 3rd or fourth best player on the team. It is amazing though that is detractors think he's a cancer who called out his teammates, when he really just acknowledged his limitations.

[celticinorlando]

Jeff Green...nothing more than a 3rd option. He is no go to guy. Trade him...

[Eja117]

He's a 3rd/4th banana.  If you trot him out there with an alpha dog & Rondo, then I'm pretty content although its still mind-boogling how he can disappear at times.

The people who thought he was taking to be the next Pierce were completely misguided to begin with.  Those expectations were set too high and were never realistic if you went off his track record.  Very, very rarely does someone flip the switch mid-way through their career and become an alpha dog.

3rd/4th banana is still way too high.  Take his last year with OKC when that team was maybe 80 percent of its way to its current juggernaut form.  While Green played a ton of minutes and took the third most shots, Harden and Ibaka were far superior players, both in their individual numbers and team on/off.  Even though Collison was "just" a role player, his impact was superior as well.  If Green had actually been the 3rd or 4th banana to a team with a ALPHA player like Durant and an All-NBA talent like Westbrook, they would be way worse.

I just don't see how a player who is a minus in so many categories is good enough to be the 3rd/4th best player of a good team.

If Jeff Green is the 4th best player on your basketball team, then I'm guessing that you're at least a conference finals bound team and a title contender.

Players better than Jeff Green on the Celtics now
Rondo
Sully
KO
Humph
Bradley
Bass

Crawford before he was traded

Pressy is a toss up.
Bayless is sorta preference.

Jeff Green is the new Sheed. He makes you worse. He collects a check. That is his deal

[Rondo9]

Jeff Green...nothing more than a 3rd option. He is no go to guy. Trade him...

So trade Bradley, Sullinger and Olynyk as well?

[celticinorlando]

Jeff Green...nothing more than a 3rd option. He is no go to guy. Trade him...

So trade Bradley, Sullinger and Olynyk as well?

Bradley...would not lose any sleep if they sent him packing. He is hurt all the time

Not sure what Sully and Olynyk have to do with Jeff Green? Green is getting paid money to be the focal point of the team. They want him to be a legit go to guy. He isn't. Sully and Olynyk are role players that do their jobs well.

[Rondo9]

But Anige has gone on record by saying Jeff Green isn't a go to guy and Green is not paid like he's one.

[D.o.s.]

If Jeff Green is the 4th best player on your basketball team, then I'm guessing that you're at least a conference finals bound team and a title contender.

Players better than Jeff Green on the Celtics now
Rondo
Sully
KO
Humph
Bradley
Bass

Crawford before he was traded

Pressy is a toss up.
Bayless is sorta preference.

Jeff Green is the new Sheed. He makes you worse. He collects a check. That is his deal

You're joking, right?

[celticinorlando]

But Anige has gone on record by saying Jeff Green isn't a go to guy and Green is not paid like he's one.

I think Boston can do better than him and for cheaper. He made $8.7 mill last season and that jumps to $9.2 mil the next season. If they can move him....they should...esp since his is in his last year of his contract.

[Galeto]

He's a 3rd/4th banana.  If you trot him out there with an alpha dog & Rondo, then I'm pretty content although its still mind-boogling how he can disappear at times.

The people who thought he was taking to be the next Pierce were completely misguided to begin with.  Those expectations were set too high and were never realistic if you went off his track record.  Very, very rarely does someone flip the switch mid-way through their career and become an alpha dog.

3rd/4th banana is still way too high.  Take his last year with OKC when that team was maybe 80 percent of its way to its current juggernaut form.  While Green played a ton of minutes and took the third most shots, Harden and Ibaka were far superior players, both in their individual numbers and team on/off.  Even though Collison was "just" a role player, his impact was superior as well.  If Green had actually been the 3rd or 4th banana to a team with a ALPHA player like Durant and an All-NBA talent like Westbrook, they would be way worse.

I just don't see how a player who is a minus in so many categories is good enough to be the 3rd/4th best player of a good team.

If Jeff Green is the 4th best player on your basketball team, then I'm guessing that you're at least a conference finals bound team and a title contender.

Why?  What has Green shown that he can be even that high up in the pecking order of an excellent team?  He's had one season with a league-average PER, last season.  One.  He's had one season with a WS/48 over 1.  Both his assist and rebound numbers scrape the bottom for his position.   His career numbers are 14.2/5.1/1.6 over a boatload of minutes, which are pretty uninspiring.  He's not a lights out shooter or finisher so it's hard to get consistent scoring from him.  He's also not someone who contributes beyond the box score with charges and deflections and generally all-out hustle.  The most impressive thing about him are his paper measureables. 

Fourth best players on championship caliber teams tend to be super role players, defensive bigs or lights out shooters who can also defend and/or take charges.  Green's more capable than just being an off the ball role player but he also lacks well-roundedness or a standout skill to make him a great specialist role player.  He's best being someone who is just good enough to start for a bad team, someone who cycles from team to team every three years or so until he's out of the league.