Author Topic: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart  (Read 43091 times)

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Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #90 on: April 14, 2014, 03:44:11 AM »

Offline Sixth Man

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I've no doubt he's a good player; he seems like he'd be a solid rotation guy in the NBA. My point is that we have more than enough power forwards already, so there's no point in drafting another unless Danny wants him to be the team's primary power forward for the next half decade or more擁n which case, he needs to get rid of the power-forward surplus of the current roster.

In today's NBA, I think there's a lot less positional rigidity at the big man spots.  I think teams can successfully run out two guys who might be considered PFs first and foremost, as long as their games are complementary.

If Vonleh is the shot blocker / rim protector that I've seen him made out to be (at least potentially), then I think he could fit with Sullinger or Olynyk.

Eh, maybe. But I'm a firm believer that a team needs legitimate length and size to win a title; the only team in recent history that HASN'T followed that formula is the Heat, but they also happen to have the best player in the world. Of course, Danny doesn't have to get that size in the draft, but I doubt Boston's going to get a title without getting it somewhere. They're not going to win a title with a bunch of 6-9 "centers."

The Celtics did fairly well with a 6'9" center back in the sixties.

Seems to me we won two titles in the 70's with a 6'9" center...

As with someone else's example of Russell, you're highlighting exceptions to the rule. Other than a team with LeBron, no team in today's NBA is going to win a title with Kris Humphries, Jared Sullinger, Brandon Bass, Noah Vonleh, Carlos Boozer, or any other 6-9ish player manning the center position. I'd think that the Celtics getting routinely killed by length inside would have hammered this point home with fans by now.

I agree with you - I was simply pointing out that Cowens was the same height and we also won two titles in the 70's with him...

Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #91 on: April 14, 2014, 06:18:12 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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"Back in the 60s" a 6'9 guy may have been the tallest one on the roster, so...
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Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #92 on: April 14, 2014, 06:36:44 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think there were more bigs in the 80s than today.   The average height may be bigger but seemed like everyone had a few 6-10 guys back then or taller.

Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #93 on: April 14, 2014, 08:01:17 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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My feeling is that you'd obviously prefer to have two highly talented 7 footers in your front court, but talent, ability, and productive are the most important factors.

I'd rather have two All-Star caliber guys who are 6'9-6'10'' instead of playing a stiff or two in the frontcourt just for the sake of having size / length out there.

Height is also pretty overrated.  Standing reach and general ability to use one's size matters most.  Elton Brand is a very effective defender at the 5 even though he's 6'9''.  Ben Wallace was an All-World defender despite being 6'10''.  Glen Davis has been a much more effective defender in his career than you might expect, because he's learned how to use his size and also take a fair number of charges.  Chris Kaman is a pretty poor defender even though he's a legit 7 feet.  Javale McGee has never been able to translate his awesome measurables into productivity that helps win basketball games.

Intelligence, instincts, skill, energy, and desire can make up for a lack of a couple of inches.

All the same, a team that can field seven footers with All-Star talent is going to have the advantage, but there just aren't many of those guys around.
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Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #94 on: April 14, 2014, 08:33:57 AM »

Offline Mr October

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I agree with the premise of this thread. After being burned on lottery day in the past, i would rather be surprised.

I am playing the odds and mentally prepping myself for a pick around 6 or 7. And that is about where i thought we would land at the start of the season anyway.

Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #95 on: April 14, 2014, 11:10:20 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I agree with the premise of this thread. After being burned on lottery day in the past, i would rather be surprised.

I am playing the odds and mentally prepping myself for a pick around 6 or 7. And that is about where i thought we would land at the start of the season anyway.

Yeah, I mean, at one point in time there was a credible threat that this team would back into the playoffs (or win a historically terrible division), and we'd be picking in the middle of the 1st.
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Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #96 on: April 14, 2014, 12:00:15 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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With our talent level, I think we could use some health given our depth currently as it stands.

Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #97 on: April 14, 2014, 12:18:34 PM »

Offline The One

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If I had to rank them:

1. Smart - a fireplug and a wrecking ball
2. Gordon - a jumping jack and a pogo stick
3. Vonleh - a goose and an ostrich




Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #98 on: April 14, 2014, 12:56:04 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Smart is the only one of the three that really appeals to me right now.   This Celtics teams is badly of need of an offensive spark.  Smart could help that.

I'm not blowing a top 6 pick on Gordon.  He could be a competent NBA player but I think he'll end up being more of a glorified role player than anything.  Offensively, he's the last thing this team needs right now

I see Vonleh more as a PF and this C's team certainly doesn't need that.


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Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #99 on: April 14, 2014, 01:43:59 PM »

Offline boscel33

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Smart is the only one of the three that really appeals to me right now.   This Celtics teams is badly of need of an offensive spark.  Smart could help that.

I'm not blowing a top 6 pick on Gordon.  He could be a competent NBA player but I think he'll end up being more of a glorified role player than anything.  Offensively, he's the last thing this team needs right now

I see Vonleh more as a PF and this C's team certainly doesn't need that.

I don't want anything to do with Smart.  If he plays PG, he's behind Rondo and I think at 6'4" he's too small for a SG.
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Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #100 on: April 14, 2014, 02:09:39 PM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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Smart is the only one of the three that really appeals to me right now.   This Celtics teams is badly of need of an offensive spark.  Smart could help that.

I'm not blowing a top 6 pick on Gordon.  He could be a competent NBA player but I think he'll end up being more of a glorified role player than anything.  Offensively, he's the last thing this team needs right now

I see Vonleh more as a PF and this C's team certainly doesn't need that.

I don't want anything to do with Smart.  If he plays PG, he's behind Rondo and I think at 6'4" he's too small for a SG.

Wade? Not that Smart is Wade, but just something to think about.

Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #101 on: April 14, 2014, 02:16:45 PM »

Offline j804

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I don't watch college much just curious does Smart attack kind of like Westbrook? We could do an attacking/aggressive offensive type we haven't had one in years
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Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #102 on: April 14, 2014, 02:19:09 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't watch college much just curious does Smart attack kind of like Westbrook? We could do an attacking/aggressive offensive type we haven't had one in years

From what I've seen his offensive game might be more similar to somebody like Wade (or perhaps early career Jason Kidd without the great passing) -- doesn't have much of a jumpshot at the moment, though he can get hot.  Not the same kind of explosive athlete Wade once was.  Westbrook has more explosion going to the basket, I think, and also has  a deadly pull-up mid-range jumper. 
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Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #103 on: April 14, 2014, 02:37:50 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I've no doubt he's a good player; he seems like he'd be a solid rotation guy in the NBA. My point is that we have more than enough power forwards already, so there's no point in drafting another unless Danny wants him to be the team's primary power forward for the next half decade or more擁n which case, he needs to get rid of the power-forward surplus of the current roster.

In today's NBA, I think there's a lot less positional rigidity at the big man spots.  I think teams can successfully run out two guys who might be considered PFs first and foremost, as long as their games are complementary.

If Vonleh is the shot blocker / rim protector that I've seen him made out to be (at least potentially), then I think he could fit with Sullinger or Olynyk.

Eh, maybe. But I'm a firm believer that a team needs legitimate length and size to win a title; the only team in recent history that HASN'T followed that formula is the Heat, but they also happen to have the best player in the world. Of course, Danny doesn't have to get that size in the draft, but I doubt Boston's going to get a title without getting it somewhere. They're not going to win a title with a bunch of 6-9 "centers."

The Celtics did fairly well with a 6'9" center back in the sixties.

True, but there weren't a whole lot of 7-footers then, and you're also talking about one of the best to ever play the game. I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure Vonleh's not in the same category.

I don't disagree with your basic point that Vonleh is not to be confused with one of the best players to ever play the game, but folks should realize that the number of 7 footers (i.e., guys who were 6' 11" or taller) was not really less back then - especially in the later years of Russell's career.

The 70s in particular were loaded with not only 7 footers, but a lot of really, really good ones.
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Re: Prepare for Gordon, Vonleh, or Smart
« Reply #104 on: April 21, 2014, 04:00:01 AM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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If we end up with the 5th or 6th pick -- which looks likely.  I would be happy with either Vonleh or Gordon.  Vonleh reminds me of Chris Bosh and Gordon reminds me of Blake Griffin.  I feel that Smart is redundant unless we are going to trade Rondo.  So Smart doesn't make sense unless DA feels Smart can play the SG position for us.  But isn't that what we have AB for?