Say we got the top pick in the draft. Would you trade it for Kyrie Irving?

[mgent]

Based on the info we have in hand, the odds are against the 2014 top pick having a better career than Irving. That said, I'm in deep rebuilding mode and I would have to pay Irving in 2015... I might have to overpay him.

So, no. I'd rather have the rook that I don't have to pay until 2017.

That actually doesn't make any sense to me. The bar for having a career better than Irving's is pretty low (I put little emphasis on All-Star appearances after 2003, when they switched to fan voting).

I mean, that's basically what I'm saying. I don't disagree with you that all-star selections are terrible, but...  I'm calling Irving an all-star- his bona fides are 2x all star and a ROY.

So yeah- I'm basically saying that the #1 pick will, more likely than not, come up short of 2x all-star and ROY.

But I'm also saying, implicitly I guess, that Kyrie Irving is not a must-have player for me. He's a 22yo 2x all-star, but I don't want him on my team for max money. So yeah- Kyrie Irving is not as good as his resume. We definitely agree on that

Yeah, unlike D.o.s., I think you made a lot of sense.  Kyrie's bar isn't relatively all that high and YET, the odds are still against the #1 pick becoming that good.

[Mr October]

I keep the number one pick (wiggins, Embiid) and keep Rondo. With restricted free agency you pretty much have this young player for 8 years. That gives you lots of time to build around him/them while keeping costs low.

Irving is a nice player, but the team would have instant pressure to build everything around him right away, which could lead to some questionable acquisitions. If they knew they could make a play for a Irving, Love, Asik (or sanders) foundation this summer, that would be very interesting, and i would trade the pick as well as future picks.

Everything is conditional.

[Moranis]

I would think Boston would at least consider something like this.  Not sure they or I would do it, but it would have to be considered.

Rondo, #1

for

Irving, Zeller, Gee, #9, #33 (Orlando's 2nd which Cleveland has), 2015 Grizzlies #1 (weirdly protected)

Something like that would at least pique Ainge's interest.  Again not sure Boston would do it, but it would at least be in the thought process.

[Donoghus]

I would think Boston would at least consider something like this.  Not sure they or I would do it, but it would have to be considered.

Rondo, #1

for

Irving, Zeller, Gee, #9, #33 (Orlando's 2nd which Cleveland has), 2015 Grizzlies #1 (weirdly protected)

Something like that would at least pique Ainge's interest.  Again not sure Boston would do it, but it would at least be in the thought process.

I have no idea why Boston would do that.

[BigAlTheFuture]

No way. Rondo and 1st overall for Kyrie? There's only 3 players I would do that for and they are obvious choices. (Bron, Durant, Davis)

[Fafnir]

I would think Boston would at least consider something like this.  Not sure they or I would do it, but it would have to be considered.

Rondo, #1

for

Irving, Zeller, Gee, #9, #33 (Orlando's 2nd which Cleveland has), 2015 Grizzlies #1 (weirdly protected)

Something like that would at least pique Ainge's interest.  Again not sure Boston would do it, but it would at least be in the thought process.

I have no idea why Boston would do that.

They want to get rid of the Rondo FA drama for the Irving RFA drama? Either that or they think the number one pick this year is destined to be another Anthony Bennett.

[scotto1205]

I would think Boston would at least consider something like this.  Not sure they or I would do it, but it would have to be considered.

Rondo, #1

for

Irving, Zeller, Gee, #9, #33 (Orlando's 2nd which Cleveland has), 2015 Grizzlies #1 (weirdly protected)

Something like that would at least pique Ainge's interest.  Again not sure Boston would do it, but it would at least be in the thought process.

Then take the #9 and a future first maybe 2 Sullinger and Wallace for Kevin love.

Then s/t Bradley to Houston for Asik.

#18 select Hairston.

Irving, Hairston, Green, Love, Asik not a bad team there 0.0

[Fafnir]

I would think Boston would at least consider something like this.  Not sure they or I would do it, but it would have to be considered.

Rondo, #1

for

Irving, Zeller, Gee, #9, #33 (Orlando's 2nd which Cleveland has), 2015 Grizzlies #1 (weirdly protected)

Something like that would at least pique Ainge's interest.  Again not sure Boston would do it, but it would at least be in the thought process.

Then take the #9 and a future first maybe 2 Sullinger and Wallace for Kevin love.

Then s/t Bradley to Houston for Asik.

#18 select Hairston.

Irving, Hairston, Green, Love, Asik not a bad team there 0.0

If your plan involves trading for Kevin Love, then you should have a really solid fallback position.

[Vermont Green]

In isolation, trading for Irving makes no sense (two max contract PGs on same team).  It only makes sense if trading Rondo too is part of the grand plan.  On pure value, I think the Celtics would come out ahead if they could turn even the top pick into Irving.  We might be trading away the next LeBron James (not likely) or you may be trading away the next Greg Oden (also not likely).  Point is drafting has an element of chance in it.  Irving is much more of a sure thing or a known quantity.

Also, Phili got 2 lottery picks for Holiday.  If we could get Irving for one pick, even a top pick, I think we win.  Then trade Rondo for Drummond or some other good complementary package and we are better sooner.

In terms of contracts, isn't a max for Irving going to be less than a max for Rondo?  So wouldn't we potentially be saving money and in my opinion upgrading the position if we in essence swap a max contract Rondo for a max contract Irving?

[pearljammer10]

No way. Rondo and 1st overall for Kyrie? There's only 3 players I would do that for and they are obvious choices. (Bron, Durant, Davis)

This is about right. I personally would have a hard time justifying a trade of Rondo for Irving straight up. (But that's just me).

[saltlover]

In terms of contracts, isn't a max for Irving going to be less than a max for Rondo?  So wouldn't we potentially be saving money and in my opinion upgrading the position if we in essence swap a max contract Rondo for a max contract Irving?

No.  Players who meet certain qualifications (such as two All-Star games) in their first four years are eligible for a max contract as if they had played 5-9 years.  As Rondo will have nine years of experience when he's up for his next contract, Irving and Rondo would be eligible for the same max extension.

[Moranis]

I would think Boston would at least consider something like this.  Not sure they or I would do it, but it would have to be considered.

Rondo, #1

for

Irving, Zeller, Gee, #9, #33 (Orlando's 2nd which Cleveland has), 2015 Grizzlies #1 (weirdly protected)

Something like that would at least pique Ainge's interest.  Again not sure Boston would do it, but it would at least be in the thought process.

I have no idea why Boston would do that.

Irving is younger, has a better contract situation, and is a better offensive player (which suits him better as a teams #1 option).  Thus, he is an upgrade over Rondo.  So the question then becomes is #1 worth #9, #33, a future first, Zeller, and Gee plus the slight upgrade.  I don't think that is quite as easy to determine.  nbadraft.net currently has Ryan Anderson at 9 and CJ Fair at 33.  draftexpress has Dario Saric at 9 and Mitch McGary at 33.  Put them with Zeller, Gee, and the upgrade at PG and the question is are they worth Embiid, Wiggins, or Parker.

[Donoghus]

I would think Boston would at least consider something like this.  Not sure they or I would do it, but it would have to be considered.

Rondo, #1

for

Irving, Zeller, Gee, #9, #33 (Orlando's 2nd which Cleveland has), 2015 Grizzlies #1 (weirdly protected)

Something like that would at least pique Ainge's interest.  Again not sure Boston would do it, but it would at least be in the thought process.

I have no idea why Boston would do that.

Irving is younger, has a better contract situation, and is a better offensive player (which suits him better as a teams #1 option).  Thus, he is an upgrade over Rondo.  So the question then becomes is #1 worth #9, #33, a future first, Zeller, and Gee plus the slight upgrade.  I don't think that is quite as easy to determine.  nbadraft.net currently has Ryan Anderson at 9 and CJ Fair at 33.  draftexpress has Dario Saric at 9 and Mitch McGary at 33.  Put them with Zeller, Gee, and the upgrade at PG and the question is are they worth Embiid, Wiggins, or Parker.

And the Celtics would still have to address positions of need outside of PG.

They get a better offensive PG (well, at least scoring-wise) but they're already pretty well equiped at the PG spot.  And now they're losing the first overall pick in the draft.

So they can either have Rondo and fill a position of need like the wing (Wiggins or Parker) or address a badly need rim protector (Embiid)

or

they have a better scoring PG (again, already a position of strength for the Celtics) but no more #1 pick so they still have multiple needs.    They're gonna try to address that via mid draft filler, Cavs filler, and a protected future first rounder?  That's a much tougher road to rebuild, IMO.

Like I said, I don't see why the Celtics would ever do this trade nor would they ever do it.

[mmmmm]

I would think Boston would at least consider something like this.  Not sure they or I would do it, but it would have to be considered.

Rondo, #1

for

Irving, Zeller, Gee, #9, #33 (Orlando's 2nd which Cleveland has), 2015 Grizzlies #1 (weirdly protected)

Something like that would at least pique Ainge's interest.  Again not sure Boston would do it, but it would at least be in the thought process.

I have no idea why Boston would do that.

Irving is younger, has a better contract situation, and is a better offensive player (which suits him better as a teams #1 option).  Thus, he is an upgrade over Rondo.  So the question then becomes is #1 worth #9, #33, a future first, Zeller, and Gee plus the slight upgrade.  I don't think that is quite as easy to determine.  nbadraft.net currently has Ryan Anderson at 9 and CJ Fair at 33.  draftexpress has Dario Saric at 9 and Mitch McGary at 33.  Put them with Zeller, Gee, and the upgrade at PG and the question is are they worth Embiid, Wiggins, or Parker.

And the Celtics would still have to address positions of need outside of PG.

They get a better offensive PG but they're already pretty well equiped at the PG spot.  And now they're losing the first overall pick in the draft.

So they can either have Rondo and fill a position of need like the wing (Wiggins or Parker) or address a badly need rim protector (Embiid)

or

they have a better scoring PG (again, already a position of strength for the Celtics) but no more #1 pick so they still have multiple needs.    They're gonna try to address that via mid draft filler, Cavs filler, and a protected future first rounder?  That's a much tougher road to rebuild, IMO.

Like I said, I don't see why the Celtics would ever do this trade nor would they ever do it.

Yeah, I have to concur with Donoghus on this.  I just can't envision any scenario where such a trade makes sense for the Celtics.

All it does is get you a couple years younger at the PG spot, which is of marginal value since it is not exactly as if Rondo is all that old anyway.   Even without vehemently disagreeing with the statement, "he is an upgrade over Rondo.", the fact is, the trade does nothing to address the real roster needs of this team.  It doesn't save you any money and it doesn't get you any help at C or SG.

[Moranis]

I would think Boston would at least consider something like this.  Not sure they or I would do it, but it would have to be considered.

Rondo, #1

for

Irving, Zeller, Gee, #9, #33 (Orlando's 2nd which Cleveland has), 2015 Grizzlies #1 (weirdly protected)

Something like that would at least pique Ainge's interest.  Again not sure Boston would do it, but it would at least be in the thought process.

I have no idea why Boston would do that.

Irving is younger, has a better contract situation, and is a better offensive player (which suits him better as a teams #1 option).  Thus, he is an upgrade over Rondo.  So the question then becomes is #1 worth #9, #33, a future first, Zeller, and Gee plus the slight upgrade.  I don't think that is quite as easy to determine.  nbadraft.net currently has Ryan Anderson at 9 and CJ Fair at 33.  draftexpress has Dario Saric at 9 and Mitch McGary at 33.  Put them with Zeller, Gee, and the upgrade at PG and the question is are they worth Embiid, Wiggins, or Parker.

And the Celtics would still have to address positions of need outside of PG.

They get a better offensive PG but they're already pretty well equiped at the PG spot.  And now they're losing the first overall pick in the draft.

So they can either have Rondo and fill a position of need like the wing (Wiggins or Parker) or address a badly need rim protector (Embiid)

or

they have a better scoring PG (again, already a position of strength for the Celtics) but no more #1 pick so they still have multiple needs.    They're gonna try to address that via mid draft filler, Cavs filler, and a protected future first rounder?  That's a much tougher road to rebuild, IMO.

Like I said, I don't see why the Celtics would ever do this trade nor would they ever do it.

Yeah, I have to concur with Donoghus on this.  I just can't envision any scenario where such a trade makes sense for the Celtics.

All it does is get you a couple years younger at the PG spot, which is of marginal value since it is not exactly as if Rondo is all that old anyway.   Even without vehemently disagreeing with the statement, "he is an upgrade over Rondo.", the fact is, the trade does nothing to address the real roster needs of this team.  It doesn't save you any money and it doesn't get you any help at C or SG.

well it does get you 3 picks instead of 1 and Zeller. 

Say you make the trade and get reasonably likely picks with the other picks

PG - Irving, Bayless
SG - Green, Bradley
SF - Ryan Anderson (9), TJ Warren (18), Wallace
PF - Sullinger, Olynyk
C - Humphries, Zeller, Jusuf Nurkic or Willie Cauley-Stein (33)

Still have Bass' expiring contract and now an extra first in 2015. 

I'm not saying I make that trade, but I do think it is the type of trade Ainge would think about given what I believe I know about Ainge.

If Boston stays at 1 then it doesn't really solve the issues are you talking about anyway.  Embiid has so many injury question marks (in addition to a very very raw offensive game) and neither Wiggins or Parker is really a SG and only Parker of the 3 is a #1 scoring option type player (and his defense needs a lot of work).   

The simple reality is, Boston isn't a contender next year without a major trade for a big time offensive talent, whether it stays at 1 or trade for Irving.  Given Irving's age and that he is a restricted not unrestricted free agent after next year, I'd rather have him than Rondo, not sure I want to downgrade from 1 to 9, 33, and a future first (plus Zeller), but I would consider it (and the Cavs have enough picks and young players they could sweeten the deal).