offseason trade idea: Cavs and Celtics

[Tr1boy]

To cavs: Green, Faverani, AB, (signed to 6.5 million for 4 years), 2014  2nd1st
To celts: Waiters, Gee, Varejao, 2014 2nd (currently 33rd pick)

reason cavs do trade: Unless they want to continue drama and upset Irving its best for the Cavs to trade Waiters. They get a nice complementary SG in AB, replace Green with Deng and a 1st pick in the 2014 draft

reason celtics do trade: Waiters is the kind of player we are lacking. A player who can go off any night and score you 25-30 points to help the team win.  Has not shown a great team attitude so far, but what's important to me is that he wants to win.   Varejao is past his peak but is still a starter when healthy. If we don't pickup a center (embiid, FA) then he can start at the Center spot for the team. A tough customer that is always a nightmare to play against.  We would have to give up a 1st . But still would have many options with an early 2nd round pick.  Gee is pretty much a throw in

2014-2015 lineup

C- Varejao
PF - Sullinger
SF - Draft Pick - Wiggins, Parker, Gordon
SG - Waiters
PG - Rondo

imo this lineup should be able to at worse make the playoffs

[D.o.s.]

Problems I see: Waiters is essentially Bradley on offense, but without Bradley's defensive ability. Varejao is yet another oft-injured power forward, and Gee is not very good.

[Tr1boy]

Problems I see: Waiters is essentially Bradley on offense, but without Bradley's defensive ability. Varejao is yet another oft-injured power forward, and Gee is not very good.

Danny Ainge is a fan of Waiters and imo would give up AB and a 1st (non lottery) to get him. Look at his stats. He is scoring a ton as of late. He has the ability to score in bunches in a very short amount of time. Also a clutch scorer and better defensively than given credit for.  He is a tough hard nosed player with skills

[saltlover]

The primary problem I see, as I see with most of your proposals, is that you don't seem to understand the rules of how trades work.  For example, this trade could only occur in July, and couldn't possibly be agreed to before then, since it requires AB to agree to a contract with the Cavs.  He's not allowed to talk to the Cavs, or any team, until July 1st.  It's really not worth the GMs considering it a real possibility on draft night.  However, you seem to assume that the Celtics or Cavs would either a) pick for each other, even though it's more likely than not that this trade doesn't occur, because the Cavs have to convince Bradley to go there, or b) be willing to accept whomever the other team drafted.  Neither a nor b make sense.

[Celtic Fan Forever]

I'm not a fan of this. Doesn't really accomplish any major goals as far as clearing cap space or getting us solid young assets.
While Waiters isn't a bad piece, he's an inefficient scorer who is a mediocre free throw shooter for his position. Varejao is playing his first 60 game season since LeBron James was a Cleveland Cavalier, so injuries are a major cause for concern. And Gee is just a below average role player at best who's barely shooting 40% this season.
I don't consider a trade like this unless multiple 1st's are coming our way.

[blink]

I am just not that big of a fan of Waiters.  I think he is a bit over-rated.  I mean, we can probably find a SG without the baggage right?

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24518110/dion-waiters-and-kyrie-irving-speak-with-media-together-to-squash-rumors

Maybe in a few years when he matures as a person / player he will be awesome?  Right now, meh..

[Who]

I'm not really interested in Varejao anymore. I think he has lost a step. Not moving as well defensively as he once did. Declined quite a lot defensively.

[LooseCannon]

I would only be interested in acquiring Waiters if I thought he could play a little PG and come off the bench as a combo guard behind Rondo and Bradley.  I consider Waiters a downgrade on Bradley at SG.

Waiters has scored 25+ points 6 times in 66 games while Bradley has scored 25+ points 4 times in 55 games.  Despite a wide difference in games started, they differ in minutes per game by less than a minute.  Waiters doesn't appear to be a better shooter, he just chucks up more shots. 

For people who think Bradley has a problem finishing, Bradley's shooting percentage on layups this season is 56.3%, but Waiters is at 46.0%.  The only thing Waiters clearly does better is get to the free throw line.  He also takes more unassisted shots, but that is not necessarily a good thing.

[gpap]

To cavs: Green, Faverani, AB, (signed to 6.5 million for 4 years), 2014  2nd1st
To celts: Waiters, Gee, Varejao, 2014 2nd (currently 33rd pick)

reason cavs do trade: Unless they want to continue drama and upset Irving its best for the Cavs to trade Waiters. They get a nice complementary SG in AB, replace Green with Deng and a 1st pick in the 2014 draft

reason celtics do trade: Waiters is the kind of player we are lacking. A player who can go off any night and score you 25-30 points to help the team win.  Has not shown a great team attitude so far, but what's important to me is that he wants to win.   Varejao is past his peak but is still a starter when healthy. If we don't pickup a center (embiid, FA) then he can start at the Center spot for the team. A tough customer that is always a nightmare to play against.  We would have to give up a 1st . But still would have many options with an early 2nd round pick.  Gee is pretty much a throw in

2014-2015 lineup

C- Varejao
PF - Sullinger
SF - Draft Pick - Wiggins, Parker, Gordon
SG - Waiters
PG - Rondo

imo this lineup should be able to at worse make the playoffs

I like your idea. I am kinda iffy on Varajeo. I would've loved him 2 years ago, but he is getting older and could still break down at any second.

If I may alter this idea a bit, how about Green, AB and Faverani and a 2014 2nd 1st rd pick for Waiters, 2014 2nd rd pick and Luol Deng in a S/T?

[Tr1boy]

I would only be interested in acquiring Waiters if I thought he could play a little PG and come off the bench as a combo guard behind Rondo and Bradley.  I consider Waiters a downgrade on Bradley at SG.

Waiters has scored 25+ points 6 times in 66 games while Bradley has scored 25+ points 4 times in 55 games.  Despite a wide difference in games started, they differ in minutes per game by less than a minute.  Waiters doesn't appear to be a better shooter, he just chucks up more shots. 

For people who think Bradley has a problem finishing, Bradley's shooting percentage on layups this season is 56.3%, but Waiters is at 46.0%.  The only thing Waiters clearly does better is get to the free throw line.  He also takes more unassisted shots, but that is not necessarily a good thing.

waiters is a better scorer and most importantly can create his own shot.  And i agree his fg is not great, but its only his 2nd season and has improved from the season prior. Can only see it go up, until mid 40 per which is perfectly acceptable for a SG.

Bradley shooting percentage for layups is higher but how many layups has he got in this year. Can anyone even remember the last time he did it?  So that stat should be thrown out of the window. Waiters is crafty and able to absorb contact for the lay in. Once he gets stronger he should be even better. He is fearless

Most importantly for me is Waiters is a confident/clutch scorer. He was the go to man in syracuse and has shown to take over the game at times with the cavs.  When was the last time Bradley came alive in the 4th and especially seal the game? 

I don't mind Bradley but imo Waiters has more upside

[Lucky17]

To cavs: Green, Faverani, AB, (signed to 6.5 million for 4 years), 2014  2nd1st
To celts: Waiters, Gee, Varejao, 2014 2nd (currently 33rd pick)

reason cavs do trade: Unless they want to continue drama and upset Irving its best for the Cavs to trade Waiters. They get a nice complementary SG in AB, replace Green with Deng and a 1st pick in the 2014 draft

reason celtics do trade: Waiters is the kind of player we are lacking. A player who can go off any night and score you 25-30 points to help the team win.  Has not shown a great team attitude so far, but what's important to me is that he wants to win.   Varejao is past his peak but is still a starter when healthy. If we don't pickup a center (embiid, FA) then he can start at the Center spot for the team. A tough customer that is always a nightmare to play against.  We would have to give up a 1st . But still would have many options with an early 2nd round pick.  Gee is pretty much a throw in

2014-2015 lineup

C- Varejao
PF - Sullinger
SF - Draft Pick - Wiggins, Parker, Gordon
SG - Waiters
PG - Rondo

imo this lineup should be able to at worse make the playoffs

I like your idea. I am kinda iffy on Varajeo. I would've loved him 2 years ago, but he is getting older and could still break down at any second.

If I may alter this idea a bit, how about Green, AB and Faverani and a 2014 2nd rd pick for Waiters, 2014 2nd 1st and Luol Deng in a S/T?

A dual sign and trade of Bradley and Deng in July, plus the draft rights of players taken three weeks prior? Sounds extremely difficult.

[LooseCannon]

Bradley shooting percentage for layups is higher but how many layups has he got in this year. Can anyone even remember the last time he did it?  So that stat should be thrown out of the window. Waiters is crafty and able to absorb contact for the lay in. Once he gets stronger he should be even better. He is fearless

According to basketball-reference.com, Bradley has made 67 out of 119 layup attempts this season, while Waiters had made 119 out of 275.

Obviously, I think you are overrating the value of "go-to" scoring.  I feel Waiters will probably end up being more suited to coming off the bench in a Jamal Crawford-ish role, if he can accept that role, while Bradley is better off starting.

[Tr1boy]

To cavs: Green, Faverani, AB, (signed to 6.5 million for 4 years), 2014  2nd1st
To celts: Waiters, Gee, Varejao, 2014 2nd (currently 33rd pick)

reason cavs do trade: Unless they want to continue drama and upset Irving its best for the Cavs to trade Waiters. They get a nice complementary SG in AB, replace Green with Deng and a 1st pick in the 2014 draft

reason celtics do trade: Waiters is the kind of player we are lacking. A player who can go off any night and score you 25-30 points to help the team win.  Has not shown a great team attitude so far, but what's important to me is that he wants to win.   Varejao is past his peak but is still a starter when healthy. If we don't pickup a center (embiid, FA) then he can start at the Center spot for the team. A tough customer that is always a nightmare to play against.  We would have to give up a 1st . But still would have many options with an early 2nd round pick.  Gee is pretty much a throw in

2014-2015 lineup

C- Varejao
PF - Sullinger
SF - Draft Pick - Wiggins, Parker, Gordon
SG - Waiters
PG - Rondo

imo this lineup should be able to at worse make the playoffs

I like your idea. I am kinda iffy on Varajeo. I would've loved him 2 years ago, but he is getting older and could still break down at any second.

If I may alter this idea a bit, how about Green, AB and Faverani and a 2014 2nd rd pick for Waiters, 2014 2nd 1st and Luol Deng in a S/T?

A dual sign and trade of Bradley and Deng in July, plus the draft rights of players taken three weeks prior? Sounds extremely difficult.

Your right. Take out the picks for a future 1st for the cavs and celts right to choose a higher future 1st after that or becomes a 2nd

[blink]

Bradley shooting percentage for layups is higher but how many layups has he got in this year. Can anyone even remember the last time he did it?  So that stat should be thrown out of the window. Waiters is crafty and able to absorb contact for the lay in. Once he gets stronger he should be even better. He is fearless

According to basketball-reference.com, Bradley has made 67 out of 119 layup attempts this season, while Waiters had made 119 out of 275.

Obviously, I think you are overrating the value of "go-to" scoring.  I feel Waiters will probably end up being more suited to coming off the bench in a Jamal Crawford-ish role, if he can accept that role, while Bradley is better off starting.

I guess this is the main thing I don't like about Waiters.  He is over-rated as a shooter.  He is 96th in the NBA in FG%.  AB is 9 spots ahead at 87th.  To me, bringing in Waiters is a lateral move at best offensively, and a step back on D.