If we get a top 3 pick, would you trade Rondo for another top 5 pick?

[chambers]

So if the stars align and we get lucky enough to secure the number 1, 2 or 3 picks- and a team like Sacramento gets the 4th pick and calls Danny asking if they'd draft for us at #4 as well for something like:

Rondo
Green
Clippers pick
a Brooklyn pick


for

#4 pick
Ben Mclemore
Salary filler

Leaving us essentially with a complete ground up rebuild but with a nice ultra young core of

#1 pick (Jabari/Wiggins?)
#4 pick (Exum/Embid?)
Sully
Olynyk
Mclemore


I think Danny only goes for this option if he can't get Kevin Love or Aldridge or a top 10-15 player but it would be very tempting.
Doesn't have to be exactly each of those trades but those are ideas...
Attempt to go the OKC route if we can't go the 2008 Celtics route...

[BleedGreen1989]

The thread title is very misleading.

It should read "would you trade Rajon Rondo, Jeff green, and two first round picks for a top-5 pick and McLemore".

In that instance, I absolutely would not.

[BballTim]

So if the stars align and we get lucky enough to secure the number 1, 2 or 3 picks- and a team like Sacramento gets the 4th pick and calls Danny asking if they'd draft for us at #4 as well for something like:

Rondo
Green
Clippers pick
a Brooklyn pick


for

#4 pick
Ben Mclemore
Salary filler

Leaving us essentially with a complete ground up rebuild but with a nice ultra young core of

#1 pick (Jabari/Wiggins?)
#4 pick (Exum/Embid?)
Sully
Olynyk
Mclemore


I think Danny only goes for this option if he can't get Kevin Love or Aldridge or a top 10-15 player but it would be very tempting.
Doesn't have to be exactly each of those trades but those are ideas...
Attempt to go the OKC route if we can't go the 2008 Celtics route...

  Going the OKC route only works if you land a Durant-level player. How many of those are in this draft?

  I don't think Danny's going to give up on trading for players before this year's draft and throw in the towel on his current plan.

[rondohondo]

So if the stars align and we get lucky enough to secure the number 1, 2 or 3 picks- and a team like Sacramento gets the 4th pick and calls Danny asking if they'd draft for us at #4 as well for something like:

Rondo
Green
Clippers pick
a Brooklyn pick


for

#4 pick
Ben Mclemore
Salary filler

Leaving us essentially with a complete ground up rebuild but with a nice ultra young core of

#1 pick (Jabari/Wiggins?)
#4 pick (Exum/Embid?)
Sully
Olynyk
Mclemore


I think Danny only goes for this option if he can't get Kevin Love or Aldridge or a top 10-15 player but it would be very tempting.
Doesn't have to be exactly each of those trades but those are ideas...
Attempt to go the OKC route if we can't go the 2008 Celtics route...

  Going the OKC route only works if you land a Durant-level player. How many of those are in this draft?

none, Parker will be closest IMO. A PP/Melo type all-star, not 1st team all-nba.

[celticmania]

Id do it.... The future would look extremely bright. In 4 years Exum-Mclemore-Parker-Sullinger-Olynk could be a very good team

[celticsfan8591]

I like the idea but I think that's a LOT to give up for the 4th pick and McLemore.  I would think Rondo/Green for #4/McLemore/filler/future unprotected first rounder is fair from a value standpoint.  Remember, the Kings offered us 2 future picks, McLemore, and Isaiah Thomas just for Rondo.  The problem with any Kings trade is that Rondo said he wouldn't re-sign there, so unless he's changed his mind since the deadline it won't happen.

[LilRip]

i wouldn't give up 2 picks and Green, but as i've said before, i'd trade Rondo for Isiah Thomas + Mclemore+ 2 1st round picks (inclusive of the #4).

I'd draft Wiggins and Embiid, but i'd be happy with Wiggins and Exum too.

[vjcsmoke]

Nope.  If we get a top 5 pick, I keep Rondo.  Right now, he's the rudder guiding the ship.  We are so much worse if we downgrade to Pressey at PG and add a couple of talented but very raw rookies to the team.

What I would do, draft the most talented player possible with the top 5 pick, keep Rondo, trade our second 1st rounder plus salary filler and get an established player like Monroe or Larry Sanders.

[chambers]

Nope.  If we get a top 5 pick, I keep Rondo.  Right now, he's the rudder guiding the ship.  We are so much worse if we downgrade to Pressey at PG and add a couple of talented but very raw rookies to the team.

What I would do, draft the most talented player possible with the top 5 pick, keep Rondo, trade our second 1st rounder plus salary filler and get an established player like Monroe or Larry Sanders.

Yeah that's a good option aswell. I just wonder with Rondo a free agent next year and his age relative to any all star draftee we may potentially end up with- that getting two prospects that could be elite with a 5-10 year plan instead of the short term plan could be an option

[crimson_stallion]

Initially I would have said no, but the more things go on the more I'm starting to think yes.

Let me start by getting one thing straight - my problem isn't with Rondo himself, it's with Rondo in the context of this team. 

I believe that this team needs a few things to really be a contender:

1) A floor general who can control the flow of the game
2) A player who can defend dominant opposing PG's
3) A player who can defend dominant opposing SG's
4) A player who can defend dominant opposing SF's
5) A player who can defend dominant opposing PF's
6) A player who can defend dominant opposing C's
7) A player who can defend the interior against interior penetration
A frontcourt that can compete on the boards
9) At least three players who can hit an open three with some consistency
10) A big who can hit midrange jumpers with some consistency
11) Three players who can run aggressively in transition
12) A capable interior scorer
13) A go-to scorer who can create his own shot

Now obviously you can't put a 10 man lineup on the court, so that means you need versatility.  You need 5 guys, and some of those guys need to be able to fill multiple needs.

Here's how we stand (in my eyes) right now:

1) A floor general who can control the flow of the game
Rajon Rondo fits this need

2) A player who can defend dominant opposing PG's
Avery Bradley and Rajon Rondo fill this need

3) A player who can defend dominant opposing SG's
Avery Bradley fills this need

4) A player who can defend dominant opposing SF's
Jeff Green fills this need

5) A player who can defend dominant opposing PF's
N/A

6) A player who can defend dominant opposing C's
N/A

7) A player who can defend the interior against interior penetration
N/A

A frontcourt that can compete on the boards
Jarred Sullinger / Kris Humphreys (depending on which is starting) fills this need

9) At least three players who can hit an open three with some consistency
Avery Bradley, Jeff Green...no third player

10) A big who can hit midrange jumpers with some consistency
Bass, Sullinger and Hump fill this need (depending on who is starting)

11) Three players who can run aggressively in transition
Rondo, Bradley, Green fill this need

12) A capable interior scorer
Sully fills this need

Now looking at this list it becomes clear that we have a couple of significant holes we need to fill:

1) A player who can defend opposing dominant PF's
2) A player who can defend opposing dominant C's
3) A player who can defend against interior penetration (shotblocker)
4) A player who can hit three point shots with consistency

Ultimately we would want to fill these positions by making moves that would not create new holes in any of those other areas.

So lets say we don't resign Bradley, and then we instead sign a pure shooter at SG (Reddick, Korver?)

We gain
* One shooter

We lose:
* One PG defender
* One SG defender
* One shooter

i.e. we create more needs than we fill - bad move.

Lets say we trade Jeff Green for Larry Sanders

We gain
* One player who can defend PF's
* One player who can defend C's
* One player who can defend penetration

We lose:
* One player who can defend SF's
* One shooter

You can argue that we gain more than we lose, but fact remains we are filling some holes only to open up new ones - not the answer.

Now lets say we get a top 3 pick and draft Exum, then trade Rondo and Sullinger for the rights to Noah Vonleh

We gain:
* A floor general who can control the flow of the game (Exum)
* A player who can guard opposing PG's (Exum)
* A player who can guard opposing SG's (Exum)
* A player who can compete on the rebounds (Vonleh)
* A player who can guard oposing PF's (Vonleh)
* A player who can guard opposing C's (Vonleh)
* A player who can guard against interior penetratioh (Vonleh)
* A player who can score inside (Vonleh)

We lose:
* A floor general who can control the flow of the game (Rondo)
* A player who can guard opposing PG's (Rondo)
* A player who can compete on the rebounds (Sullinger)
* A player who can score inside (Sullinger)

In this case the players coming in provide more versatility than the players going out, to we can fill existong holes without creating any new holes. 

A move like this also gives us a versatile guard (in Exum) who has the size and athleticism to defend the oppositions best player at either guard position, and also has the skill set to plsy either guard position on offense.  This opens up the flexiblilty for us to trade Avery Bradley (plus other assets) for either of the following:

a) A scorer at one of the guard positions (Goran Dragic, DeMarr Derozan, Kevin Martin, Monta Ellis, Jamal Crawford, Arron Afflalo, Klay Thompson, Isiah Thomas, Kemba Walker, Ty Lawson, Mike Conley, Jeff Teague)

b) A floor general who can double as a shooter (Jose Calderon, Aaron Brooks, Mario Chalmers, Darren Collison, Kyle Lowry, Mo Williams

c) A shooter at the SG position (Kyle Korver, Marco Belinelli, Aaron Afflalo, Klay Thompson, Danny Green, Wesley Matthews, JJ Redick, Eric Gordon, JR Smith, Kevin Martin)

So by in this case by giving up Rondo you are certainly sacrificing that All-Star level of talent, but in return you are filling (either directly, or indirectly) every single hole in our roster.

I think that a set of moves like this makes us an instant playoff team, and a potential contender in 2 years time once we add further young talent (via future drafts) and the current young guys develop.

I love Rondo and sentimentally there is nothing I'd love more than to have him be a Celtic for life.  When healthy I still strongly believe he is a top 5 PG in the NBA - probably top 3.  But right now I feel like the one skill that makes Rondo truly unique (his amazing playmaking ability) is a luxury rather than a need, and trading him out may give us the oppotunity to give up that luxury in return for filling multiple needs.  I feel that makes us better as a team.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter how great a passer and playmaker Rondo is, the guys around him still need to hit their shots.  He would fit best on a team filled with great spot up shooters like New York or (dare I say it) Miami and this team just isn't built that way. 

I feel that because this type of offense suits Rondo's skillset better, this forces our current players (like Jeff Green, Avery Bradley, Jarred Sullinger) to play to his strengths, and forces those guys to turn themselves in to spot-up shooters.  Yet at the same time I don't think that is either of those players' strengths.  Jeff Green seems to play best in isolation with the ball in his hands, driving to the basket.  Avery seems to score best with his one-dribble pull-up.  Sullinger seems to work best when he's working around the basket, making his post moves or getting garbage points off putbacks.  But when Rondo is in the game Green, Bradley and Sullinger all become spot-up three point shooters, and neither one of those guys is built for that.   

You could trade away half of our team to acquire a bunch of shooters to fit around Rondo, or you could trade out Rondo for a PG who can still handle the PG role well enough, but who offers greater versatlity in other areas. I feel like the latter is a faster way to turn this team's success around.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

In the context of the particular trade you've given, I reckon Rondo and Green are a better compliment to whomever we might draft with our own top 5 pick pick than their pick plus Mclemore and filler. Throwing in   those future 2 picks makes the deal even more lopsided. If, it were something like Rondo, plus absorbing a  Wallace type contract, and 2 unprotected future 1st rounders from wherever, for that Sactown offer, then I would consider. 

[Celtics4ever]

A player who can defend the interior against interior penetration

 Humph can but the rest of the team is a joke at rim defending.

Trouble is only fools draft for need.   We need best players on the board types.  Our talent level is that low.   Maybe if we were a piece or two away but we are not.

[CFAN38]

If the Cs get a top 3 pick and the potential exists to trade Rondo for the #4 or #5 it will be an interesting draft day.

This trade will hinge on DAs ability/confidence to pair championship caliber players with Rondo. If he doesn't see this happening then I can see DA moving rondo and extending the rebuild. This is not a slight to Rondo but I think Smart and Exum both have good shots of reaching Rondo's level of production. They will be much different players but both should be very effective pros.

[CoachBo]

No one is going to move a top 5 pick for Rondo based on his post-injury production to date.

Will. Not. Happen.

[PhoSita]

No one is going to move a top 5 pick for Rondo based on his post-injury production to date.

Will. Not. Happen.

Agreed.  I think a pick in the 7-12 range could be up for grabs, however.


I think the Celtics will have to seriously consider moving Rondo for a pick and / or young players this summer, depending on where their pick falls in the draft.

If the Celtics get a top 3 pick and select a guy with superstar potential who may be able to play at a near All-Star level within a couple of years, that's one thing.  Rondo might be enticed to stay for that reason alone. 

But let's say the team ends up selecting 5th, 6th, or 7th, and drafts a raw 18 year old player who maybe could be an All-Star at some point down the road.  A guy like Noah Vonleh, for example, or Aaron Gordon.  In that case, the chances of significantly improving the team in the near future seem pretty low, barring a deal for Kevin Love (pipe dream if you ask me).

Rondo will be gone if the team isn't a lot better a year from now.  It may make the most sense to get what we can for him now and focus on rebuilding around a group of players who will hit their primes 3-5 years from now.