Author Topic: Love + Asik  (Read 3620 times)

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Love + Asik
« on: March 21, 2014, 11:16:48 AM »

Offline TheRev72

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It feels like things are setting up this summer for a play for Love and Asik.

Reading Simmons's Love trade ideas, it really does seem like Ainge has the ability to offer the motherload for him, like the KG trade in 07. Our lotto pick, future picks, Sully, Green, expirings, etc. Some combination should work for Minny, who clearly need to be thinking about life post-Love. Rubio, Pek, Sully, our lotto pick and/or other future first rounders would set them up for that. Also, I would presume Ainge and Flip have a good relationship since Flip spent some time with the Celtics organization on Doc's coaching staff.

As for Asik, he would to be a pretty ideal frontcourt mate alongside Love, as Asik's a defensive stud and rim protector (Love needs a defensive ace alongside him). And again, we know Ainge and Morey have a relationship from Morey's day working with Ainge. And they've talked Asik before. A trade should be easier to consumate around draft time.

Rondo + Love + Asik. Re-sign Bradley. Throw Green in at SF if he's not traded. If he is (and even if he isn't), look at bringing back Pierce. Tell Olynyk to lift weights and run all offseason (and cut his hair?) and bring him in as the first big off the bench. I would really like that team.

Rondo + Love is enough top-shelf NBA talent to compete for the East, particularly if the Heat break up. Throw in the team's solid role players and the potential to add more talent via trades and I think the Celtics would be set up well for contention.

Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2014, 11:28:20 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I'm not sure that the Celtics are any better than the Timberwolves right now, though.

We do have the definite advantage of playing in the Eastern Conference, but I'm not sure giving up our lottery pick and Sullinger for a player like Kevin Love is in our best interests.

Full disclosure -- I'm not a fan of Kevin Love. I think he's a one-way player who puts up big numbers on bad teams.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2014, 11:45:42 AM »

Offline TheRev72

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I'm not sure that the Celtics are any better than the Timberwolves right now, though.

We do have the definite advantage of playing in the Eastern Conference, but I'm not sure giving up our lottery pick and Sullinger for a player like Kevin Love is in our best interests.

Full disclosure -- I'm not a fan of Kevin Love. I think he's a one-way player who puts up big numbers on bad teams.

I think this situation for Love would be much better than Minny. The Wolves suffer from lack of rim protection and inconsistent production from Rubio. Asik would provide rim protection that Pek can't. Rondo is a much better player than Rubio.

I'll be the first to admit that I drink the Kevin Love Kool-Aid. He's clearly one of the best scorers and rebounders in the League. His outlet/passing skills are top notch. Pair him with a massive defensive presence like Asik, and a passer like Rondo who loves drive and dish to big men on the perimeter, and I think the sky is limit. (Again, I'm pretty high on him, obviously!)

Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2014, 11:48:03 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I think that is too steep a price for love unless the pick is more like 7 or 8.  I don't see a Rondo/Love with role players type team being a real contender and that is a lot of value when you are talking about the lotto pick, Sullinger, AND future picks. 
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Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2014, 11:54:24 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I'm not sure that the Celtics are any better than the Timberwolves right now, though.

We do have the definite advantage of playing in the Eastern Conference, but I'm not sure giving up our lottery pick and Sullinger for a player like Kevin Love is in our best interests.

Full disclosure -- I'm not a fan of Kevin Love. I think he's a one-way player who puts up big numbers on bad teams.
I agree.  I see Love as similar to Melo -- big time scorers that play little to no defense.  Love isn't the shooter Melo is but he does rebound. 

I wouldn't mind having him on the team, I just wouldn't mortgage the future to do it which is much different from a number of posters here that are enamored with him.  I can't stress this enough to those willing to give up everything to get Love-->this guy is NOT KG.  not close.    When taking that into consideration, there's no justification for putting together a KG-level trade for this guy.  None.

Think about what we gave up for KG:
Big Al -- top PF/C prospect that projected to a 20/10 player that was the basis of the deal
Ratliff - salary filler
Telfair - PG struggling to justify backup minutes
Green - SF that hadn't shown anything other than he can dunk
Gomes - so-so backup SF/PF. 
Minny's own 1st rounder that we had and 1 of our own future firsts.

For comparison, look at the Laker deal for Gasol -- another PF that's better than Love.
Kwame Brown -- Mr #1 bust himself
Javaris Crittenton -- Mr gun-toting PG bust
Aaron McKie -- so-so player that was contract filler
Marc Gasol -- was not projected to be anywhere as good as he is.  for those that disagree, consider the fact he was taken in the second round.  if he was thought to develop as he has, he would have been snapped in the first round--lottery vicinity
first round picks in 2008 and 2010 -- which from the Lakers has low value at the end of the first round
Memphis also sent the Lakers a 2nd round pick.

Based on those deals for vastly superior players, there's no way anyone's going to convince me Love is worth more than maybe Sully or Green, salary filler, a late 1st pick and MAYBE AB.  Minny may not like it but that's the limit on what I think Love is worth based on what other PFs have been traded for.

Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2014, 12:02:05 PM »

Offline TheRev72

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I think that is too steep a price for love unless the pick is more like 7 or 8.  I don't see a Rondo/Love with role players type team being a real contender and that is a lot of value when you are talking about the lotto pick, Sullinger, AND future picks.

I actually didn't name a "price" because I'm not sure what the price would be. Instead, I was saying Ainge has the assets necessary to make a run. That's why I said "Some combination" and clarified "our lotto pick and/or other future first rounders."

It all depends on what other teams are offering. But I think Ainge has the most assets if the Wolves end up looking for young player and draft picks. There are a myriad of packages Ainge could put together.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 12:25:14 PM by TheRev72 »

Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2014, 12:15:06 PM »

Offline moiso

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I think Rondo, Love, and Asik is a perfect core.  I wouldn't think twice about trading Sullinger and a lottery pick pick outside the top 3(possibly 4) for Love.

I think Love is an amazing player.  The Wolves have been bad except for maybe one year in their whole existence as a franchise.  It's crazy to blame Love for 25 years of the Wolves being a bad team.  KG was known as a two way player who put up big numbers but couldn't lead a team... until he was traded and won a title the next year.

Gasol was on horrible teams too.  He was traded to LA and in his next two full seasons he won titles. 

Almost every great player starts out on a bad team... and they all have the same criticisms about being unable to lead that team.  Then they get traded to a decent team and everything changes.  Or if the franchise is competently run, maybe a good team can be built around that player.  Regardless, tons of great players start out in losing situations.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 12:23:03 PM by moiso »

Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2014, 12:34:09 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I wouldn't mind having him on the team, I just wouldn't mortgage the future to do it.

My feelings exactly.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2014, 12:57:50 PM »

Offline nostar

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I didn't read through all the posts but I think that it's worth saying we'd only trade our lotto pick to Minny this year if Love resigned with us. 1 year of Kevin Love's prime isn't worth Sully + a top 5 lotto pick in a stacked draft. 5 years is.

That said I'd move our picks this year and the Clip pick next year for Love. I think he's a near perfect compliment to Rondo's game and I'm hoping Rondo is in the long term plans of the Celtics. 3 competent players and a half-decent bench would put those two in the hunt every year.

I'm luke warm on Asik. I know he was absolute gold in Chicago but a lot of that was his utility on a very good team and that was only possible because of his low contract. He was the best backup center in the league that year, a good center last year and now he's sort of throwing a fit because of his new situation. I think he has a right to complain I just don't love when players air their dirty laundry like this. It put Morrey in a bad situation for sure. Not my cup of tea.

I'd rather make a low ball offer for Sanders if/when MIL drafts Embiid or make a run at Marc Gasol in 2015. Those seem like better long term solutions. Love is a franchise player and I think if we can get him to commit to a max deal here we have to throw the kitchen sink at that prospect.

Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2014, 01:32:35 PM »

Offline Timdawgg

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I actually think hanging on to Green would be important in those trades because he is also the perfect mix with Asik, Love and Rondo...He doesn't have to be the superstar, plays great D, Very Athletic and the C's win every game when he goes off. When he doesn't Love and Rondo can take care of the rest.
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Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2014, 01:46:43 PM »

Offline 2short

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Love is one of top 3 rebounders in league, best outlet passer, top 5 scorer, mvp candidate.
I'd trade anyone but rondo in a package.  If you end up with rondo, bradley (great defensive backcourt) green (very good sf defender), love and asik (good defender) i'd be  ;D ;D
Mr Bird wasn't the best one on one defender but he looked good enough with the rest of that group.

Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2014, 01:53:22 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I think Rondo, Love, and Asik is a perfect core.  I wouldn't think twice about trading Sullinger and a lottery pick pick outside the top 3(possibly 4) for Love.

I think Love is an amazing player.  The Wolves have been bad except for maybe one year in their whole existence as a franchise.  It's crazy to blame Love for 25 years of the Wolves being a bad team.  KG was known as a two way player who put up big numbers but couldn't lead a team... until he was traded and won a title the next year.

Gasol was on horrible teams too.  He was traded to LA and in his next two full seasons he won titles. 

Almost every great player starts out on a bad team... and they all have the same criticisms about being unable to lead that team.  Then they get traded to a decent team and everything changes.  Or if the franchise is competently run, maybe a good team can be built around that player.  Regardless, tons of great players start out in losing situations.
I think 'perfect core' is a huge overstatement.  2 are really non-scorers and 1 is a non-defender.  none are really 2-way players. 

I think the criticism of Love is not that he's not a leader, it's that he's not good enough to win a title as the best player on his team.  (unless he's like marginally better than the other starters but that's not terribly realistic)  IMHO, he'd be a terrific second banana but not the main guy.  in your 'perfect core' he'd have to be the main guy and I don't see that line-up as a contender.  Playoff team, absolutely.  probably win the division (which is pretty weak) and get to the second round.  I don't see much more than that happening.

that core is a long way from PP/KG/Ray which, while not perfect due to age and injuries, was much better than the 'perfect core'

Re: Love + Asik
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2014, 02:01:56 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I can see these moves as the big moves danny stated he projects to make over the summer

To Bos: Love, JJ Barera
To Wolves: 2014 1st pick (5-7th spot likely), future 1st,  Sullinger

To Bos: Asik and 2014 2nd pick
To Rockets: Green. OR 2014 2nd 1st

starting unit

C- Asik
PF- Love
SF- 2014 2nd 1st  (Warren, Mcdermott, KJ Mcdaniel, Grant) or 2nd round pick (Early, CJ Fair, Lebryan Nash)
SG - AB
PG - Rondo

bench

Olynyk, Bass, Wallace, Johnson, Babb, Barera, Faverani, Anthony , FA wing vet

With this lineup, we would definitely make the playoffs in the east. 5th seed or better. It is a decent way to get back into contention, and probably a super SF away from being a top team in the league