Height vs. Standing reach

[krumeto]

Hi everyone,

A general question out of curiosity (boring days until the Madness):

Why do we cite the height of a player so often? Why don't we use the standing reach instead? Or the wingspan?

I cannot really come up with a basketball activity where the height itself is more important than the standing reach.

Should we start looking for a 9,4, instead of 7 footer? Is a 6,4 SG really undersized? I cannot really say until I have the reach and the wingspan.

[Roy H.]

Height is used because that's what most people can relate to, and is a rough indicator of length.

Scouts and front office personnel, though, look beyond that.  That's why standing reach, wingspan, etc., are all measured at the combine.  However, while that information is accessible to the average fan (at least for most players), it's not something that most folks are going to commit to memory.

[clover]

For wingspan to be valuable as a measurement, other than at the extremes, you need some sort of vertical measure as well.

Standing reach has some shorthand value, but compared to height it is harder to eyeball; as Roy says, it is harder for people to relate to; and it would be even easier for teams and players to fudge on than is height (hello, 5'11" Phil Pressey).

Really, there's something to be gained from each measurement--and of course, jumping, speed, and agility stats as well. Seems like a lateral movement test, other than the current cone drill, could be useful if it could practically be devised.

[CelticG1]

This is interesting in regards to Avery Bradley

Doesnt he have a huge wingspan?

Wonder how his standing reach matches up with other SG who are taller height wise.

That topic in general is just funmy to me when people are arguing over whether 2 inches makes a person a better player. Really dont think that was a factor on why Jordan, ray allen, reggie miller, joe dumars etc were better than one another

[Roy H.]

This is interesting in regards to Avery Bradley

Doesnt he have a huge wingspan?

Wonder how his standing reach matches up with other SG who are taller height wise.

Avery's standing reach is 8' 2.5"  I don't think that's particularly long.  Of those who were measured at the combine in Bradley's draft year, only Eric Bledsoe and Sherron Collins had lower standing reaches.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2010-nba-draft-combine-official-measurements

[CelticG1]

This is interesting in regards to Avery Bradley

Doesnt he have a huge wingspan?

Wonder how his standing reach matches up with other SG who are taller height wise.

Avery's standing reach is 8' 2.5"  I don't think that's particularly long.  Of those who were measured at the combine in Bradley's draft year, only Eric Bledsoe and Sherron Collins had lower standing reaches.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2010-nba-draft-combine-official-measurements

Hmm thats weird i thought for sure he had a huge wingspan but neither that or standing reach seem to indicate that. it also doesnt seem like there is much of a difference between players height and standing reach or enough of a difference to matter.

[krumeto]

This is interesting in regards to Avery Bradley

Doesnt he have a huge wingspan?

Wonder how his standing reach matches up with other SG who are taller height wise.

Avery's standing reach is 8' 2.5"  I don't think that's particularly long.  Of those who were measured at the combine in Bradley's draft year, only Eric Bledsoe and Sherron Collins had lower standing reaches.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2010-nba-draft-combine-official-measurements

I looked up only some of the younger SGs:
B. Beal - Height: 6' 4.75'',  Standing Reach: 8' 3''
Waiters - Height: 6' 4'', Standing Reach: 8' 2''
T.Ross - Height: 6' 7'',  Standing Reach: 8' 5''
Avery -  Height: 6' 3.25"',  Standing Reach: 8' 2.5"

Avery is certainly slightly undersized. His wingspan is about average at 6' 7.25".

[CFAN38]

Height vs Reach is a big reason why I'm always interested when per-draft measurements come out.

 I think for wings reach is more of a deciding factor and for bigs its standing reach. For a Big man his ability to rebound and protect the hoop often come down to his reach compared to his opponent. For a Wing who is in a defensive position his wingspan makes him wider and harder to get around. It also gives greater range when closing out on shooter.

In the past I have tried to figure out roughly what each big man role should minimally measure in at for standing reach.

True rim protecting big 9'2"+ (ex Chandler 9'2, Howard 9'3.5", Oden/Sanders 9'4")

Center  8'11"+ (ex Horford 8'11", Monroe 9,0.5", Olynyk 9')

4/5 Big 8'10 + (Love 8'10, Sully 8'9.5", Blair 8'10.5") [ must be wide body to get by at 5 with under 8'11" )

4 PF 8'9+ (Griffin 8'9", Young 8'10) This includes stretch 4s.

An observation based on these numbers: Jeff Green was considered a poor defender at PF and this makes sense given that his reach is only 8'7" despite him being 6'9".

As wingspan goes for wing players I think its a safe observation to say that in order to be an above average defender you must have a wingspan that is longer then the average height of the position you guard. EX AB and Bledsoe at 6'2 have 6'7 wingspans guarding SGs)

[oldmanspeaks]

Height is really a measurement for the general public but in reality it means nothing. Standing reach and wingspan are the only meaningful numbers. In the 70s the Steelers had "short" linemen except for one "tall" guy. In reality at the shoulder they were all the same size because the short guys had no necks and the tall guy at a long neck. Different people have a different shoulder connection location so a "short" guy can have a very good standing reach because his arm connects high on the shoulder. It is those guys who have always blocked my shots because you have a tendency to arc your shot based upon a guy's height which really can be misleading.
 

[clover]

Height is really a measurement for the general public but in reality it means nothing. Standing reach and wingspan are the only meaningful numbers. In the 70s the Steelers had "short" linemen except for one "tall" guy. In reality at the shoulder they were all the same size because the short guys had no necks and the tall guy at a long neck. Different people have a different shoulder connection location so a "short" guy can have a very good standing reach because his arm connects high on the shoulder. It is those guys who have always blocked my shots because you have a tendency to arc your shot based upon a guy's height which really can be misleading.

There's probably a bit of advantage in being able to see over the other guys, but height is generally used as a rough proxy of standing reach. Of course, jumping ability affects the value of standing reach as well. And, depending on width of shoulders, standing reach may or may not be a decent indicator of horizontal reach.

[krumeto]

Height vs Reach is a big reason why I'm always interested when per-draft measurements come out.

 I think for wings reach is more of a deciding factor and for bigs its standing reach. For a Big man his ability to rebound and protect the hoop often come down to his reach compared to his opponent. For a Wing who is in a defensive position his wingspan makes him wider and harder to get around. It also gives greater range when closing out on shooter.

In the past I have tried to figure out roughly what each big man role should minimally measure in at for standing reach.

True rim protecting big 9'2"+ (ex Chandler 9'2, Howard 9'3.5", Oden/Sanders 9'4")

Center  8'11"+ (ex Horford 8'11", Monroe 9,0.5", Olynyk 9')

4/5 Big 8'10 + (Love 8'10, Sully 8'9.5", Blair 8'10.5") [ must be wide body to get by at 5 with under 8'11" )

4 PF 8'9+ (Griffin 8'9", Young 8'10) This includes stretch 4s.

An observation based on these numbers: Jeff Green was considered a poor defender at PF and this makes sense given that his reach is only 8'7" despite him being 6'9".

As wingspan goes for wing players I think its a safe observation to say that in order to be an above average defender you must have a wingspan that is longer then the average height of the position you guard. EX AB and Bledsoe at 6'2 have 6'7 wingspans guarding SGs)

In this regard (data DX)

Embiid           - h. 7' 0", wingspan - 7' 5", no data on SR
Vonleh           - h. 6' 10", wingspan - 7' 4", SR - 8' 10"
WCS              - h. 7' 0.5", wingspan - 7' 2.5", no data on SR
Clint Capela    - h. 6' 10.5" , wingspan 7' 3.5", SR - 9' 2.5"
Nurkic            - h. 6' 11.5", wingspan- 7' 2", SR - 9' 1.5"

If Vonleh does not grow a bit more, I don't see him as a premium center prospect. Not the greatest athlete too (yet).

[CFAN38]

Height vs Reach is a big reason why I'm always interested when per-draft measurements come out.

 I think for wings reach is more of a deciding factor and for bigs its standing reach. For a Big man his ability to rebound and protect the hoop often come down to his reach compared to his opponent. For a Wing who is in a defensive position his wingspan makes him wider and harder to get around. It also gives greater range when closing out on shooter.

In the past I have tried to figure out roughly what each big man role should minimally measure in at for standing reach.

True rim protecting big 9'2"+ (ex Chandler 9'2, Howard 9'3.5", Oden/Sanders 9'4")

Center  8'11"+ (ex Horford 8'11", Monroe 9,0.5", Olynyk 9')

4/5 Big 8'10 + (Love 8'10, Sully 8'9.5", Blair 8'10.5") [ must be wide body to get by at 5 with under 8'11" )

4 PF 8'9+ (Griffin 8'9", Young 8'10) This includes stretch 4s.

An observation based on these numbers: Jeff Green was considered a poor defender at PF and this makes sense given that his reach is only 8'7" despite him being 6'9".

As wingspan goes for wing players I think its a safe observation to say that in order to be an above average defender you must have a wingspan that is longer then the average height of the position you guard. EX AB and Bledsoe at 6'2 have 6'7 wingspans guarding SGs)

In this regard (data DX)

Embiid           - h. 7' 0", wingspan - 7' 5", no data on SR
Vonleh           - h. 6' 10", wingspan - 7' 4", SR - 8' 10"
WCS              - h. 7' 0.5", wingspan - 7' 2.5", no data on SR
Clint Capela    - h. 6' 10.5" , wingspan 7' 3.5", SR - 9' 2.5"
Nurkic            - h. 6' 11.5", wingspan- 7' 2", SR - 9' 1.5"

If Vonleh does not grow a bit more, I don't see him as a premium center prospect. Not the greatest athlete too (yet).

I agree if Vonleh doesn't measure with a bigger standing reach then he may be regulated to the PF position. However I think this is his natural position anyway.

I expect this draft to hold 3 legit rim protecting prospects Embidd, WCS and Capela. We don't yet no the reaches of WCS or Embiid but I would expect both to be 9'2+.

An interesting standing reach prospect for this draft will be Montrezl Harrell, with out shoes he is under 6'6 yet his standing reach is 8'11"! Looking past his height he is actually big enough to play center in the NBA. 

[Emmette Bryant]

Out of curiosity I just googled "Larry Bird wingspan".  According to the internets it was 6'7".

[Fred Roberts]

height may be relevant in that players don't play the game with their arms raised to full standing reach that much of the time. a taller player may have advantages grabbing the ball or disrupting plays with his hands near his head or out to the side. Standing reach really seems relevant only for rebounding, shot blocking, tip off and shooting release (depending on form).
These stats & measurements are always interesting to compare though . ..

[pearljammer10]

Height vs Reach is a big reason why I'm always interested when per-draft measurements come out.

 I think for wings reach is more of a deciding factor and for bigs its standing reach. For a Big man his ability to rebound and protect the hoop often come down to his reach compared to his opponent. For a Wing who is in a defensive position his wingspan makes him wider and harder to get around. It also gives greater range when closing out on shooter.

In the past I have tried to figure out roughly what each big man role should minimally measure in at for standing reach.

True rim protecting big 9'2"+ (ex Chandler 9'2, Howard 9'3.5", Oden/Sanders 9'4")

Center  8'11"+ (ex Horford 8'11", Monroe 9,0.5", Olynyk 9')

4/5 Big 8'10 + (Love 8'10, Sully 8'9.5", Blair 8'10.5") [ must be wide body to get by at 5 with under 8'11" )

4 PF 8'9+ (Griffin 8'9", Young 8'10) This includes stretch 4s.

An observation based on these numbers: Jeff Green was considered a poor defender at PF and this makes sense given that his reach is only 8'7" despite him being 6'9".

As wingspan goes for wing players I think its a safe observation to say that in order to be an above average defender you must have a wingspan that is longer then the average height of the position you guard. EX AB and Bledsoe at 6'2 have 6'7 wingspans guarding SGs)

In this regard (data DX)

Embiid           - h. 7' 0", wingspan - 7' 5", no data on SR
Vonleh           - h. 6' 10", wingspan - 7' 4", SR - 8' 10"
WCS              - h. 7' 0.5", wingspan - 7' 2.5", no data on SR
Clint Capela    - h. 6' 10.5" , wingspan 7' 3.5", SR - 9' 2.5"
Nurkic            - h. 6' 11.5", wingspan- 7' 2", SR - 9' 1.5"

If Vonleh does not grow a bit more, I don't see him as a premium center prospect. Not the greatest athlete too (yet).

I agree if Vonleh doesn't measure with a bigger standing reach then he may be regulated to the PF position. However I think this is his natural position anyway.

I expect this draft to hold 3 legit rim protecting prospects Embidd, WCS and Capela. We don't yet no the reaches of WCS or Embiid but I would expect both to be 9'2+.

An interesting standing reach prospect for this draft will be Montrezl Harrell, with out shoes he is under 6'6 yet his standing reach is 8'11"! Looking past his height he is actually big enough to play center in the NBA.

Great stuff here CFAN, TP for you.

The two most interesting things I see from this great breakdown is the "rim protector" section. Have the Celtics ever had a legit, mobile rim protector in the last (fill in the blank as to however many) years? Does Perkins count in this case?

Second, Harrell looked like a legit center prospect when I first laid eyes on him this past weekend... I was absolutely shocked when I saw he was only listed at 6' 6'' without shoes. I mean literally shocked. He looked like a Dwight Howard out there on defense, so maybe the standing reach has something to do with that.

Anyway this data makes me feel better in comparing Harrell to a young Drummond or having him potentially turn into a Drummond-"esque" NBA prospect. And also makes him more appealing to me in using our later first round pick on him.