Asik using the trade exception?

[saltlover]

No giving up a first for (the expiring and expensive) Asik. We can likely use that in some better deal.
I'm not too sure if he is a guy we will want to have. It seems there will be lots of FA and trade available centers the next two years.

I really doubt there will be other centers as good as Asik available in the next couple years for anywhere near just a mid first rounder. 

And, while Asik will be making a lot of money, his cap hit will be much smaller, which is more important from the basketball side (and luxury tax side), plus, on a one year deal, he won't be making much more than market value for a quality starting center. 

I think drafting a guy for a trade that can't be completed until a week or two later is exceptionally rare. 

It would make more sense to me if it was Asik for the TE, the Clips pick and the Philly pick.

Someone help me out here.  Why couldn’t the trade be completed until a week or two after the draft?

Well, the short answer is because if they wait until the new season, which starts in July, then the C's, who are right up against the luxury tax right now, but will be well below it next season, will not have to pay the luxury tax for this year.

Of course, its more complicated than that, because there is also a hard cap that the C's can't go past, and they would if they aquired Asik without sending additional salary this year, but that isn't even relevant, because we know the C's wouldn't go into the tax in this instance anyways.

Actually, it is the hard cap that is relevant at this point.  The luxury tax is calculated based on rosters from the last day of the regular season, per Larry Coon.

[Chris]

No giving up a first for (the expiring and expensive) Asik. We can likely use that in some better deal.
I'm not too sure if he is a guy we will want to have. It seems there will be lots of FA and trade available centers the next two years.

I really doubt there will be other centers as good as Asik available in the next couple years for anywhere near just a mid first rounder. 

And, while Asik will be making a lot of money, his cap hit will be much smaller, which is more important from the basketball side (and luxury tax side), plus, on a one year deal, he won't be making much more than market value for a quality starting center. 

I think drafting a guy for a trade that can't be completed until a week or two later is exceptionally rare. 

It would make more sense to me if it was Asik for the TE, the Clips pick and the Philly pick.

Someone help me out here.  Why couldn’t the trade be completed until a week or two after the draft?

Well, the short answer is because if they wait until the new season, which starts in July, then the C's, who are right up against the luxury tax right now, but will be well below it next season, will not have to pay the luxury tax for this year.

Of course, its more complicated than that, because there is also a hard cap that the C's can't go past, and they would if they aquired Asik without sending additional salary this year, but that isn't even relevant, because we know the C's wouldn't go into the tax in this instance anyways.

Actually, it is the hard cap that is relevant at this point.  The luxury tax is calculated based on rosters from the last day of the regular season, per Larry Coon.

Interesting.  I didn't know that.  Thanks.

Point remains the same though.  This is the type of deal agreed upon in June, completed in July.

[kozlodoev]

Um, a hard cap only exists in the NBA if you choose to use your full MLE. That is, if you use your non-taxpayer MLE at any point, you have to maintain non-taxpayer salaries for the entire season.

We aren't using it this season.

[Chris]

Um, a hard cap only exists in the NBA if you choose to use your full MLE. That is, if you use your non-taxpayer MLE at any point, you have to maintain non-taxpayer salaries for the entire season.

We aren't using it this season.

It also exists if you recieve a player in a sign and trade.  Keith Bogans gave us the hard cap. 

[saltlover]

Um, a hard cap only exists in the NBA if you choose to use your full MLE. That is, if you use your non-taxpayer MLE at any point, you have to maintain non-taxpayer salaries for the entire season.

We aren't using it this season.

It also exists if you recieve a player in a sign and trade.  Keith Bogans gave us the hard cap.

We also committed to the big MLE when we signed Chris Johnson to a deal that was reported to last for four years, including the rest of this season. The taxpayer MLE is limited to three years.  (It's moot, of course, since we were limited by the S&T, but still true.)

[Moranis]

Can't see Boston doing this.  Way too much salary tied up in role players.  Now if Bass was moved in the trade it would make a lot more sense, since if you acquire Asik, Bass gets booted almost entirely out of the rotation.

[bdm860]

No giving up a first for (the expiring and expensive) Asik. We can likely use that in some better deal.
I'm not too sure if he is a guy we will want to have. It seems there will be lots of FA and trade available centers the next two years.

I really doubt there will be other centers as good as Asik available in the next couple years for anywhere near just a mid first rounder. 

And, while Asik will be making a lot of money, his cap hit will be much smaller, which is more important from the basketball side (and luxury tax side), plus, on a one year deal, he won't be making much more than market value for a quality starting center. 

I think drafting a guy for a trade that can't be completed until a week or two later is exceptionally rare. 

It would make more sense to me if it was Asik for the TE, the Clips pick and the Philly pick.

Someone help me out here.  Why couldn’t the trade be completed until a week or two after the draft?

Well, the short answer is because if they wait until the new season, which starts in July, then the C's, who are right up against the luxury tax right now, but will be well below it next season, will not have to pay the luxury tax for this year.

Of course, its more complicated than that, because there is also a hard cap that the C's can't go past, and they would if they aquired Asik without sending additional salary this year, but that isn't even relevant, because we know the C's wouldn't go into the tax in this instance anyways.

Actually, it is the hard cap that is relevant at this point.  The luxury tax is calculated based on rosters from the last day of the regular season, per Larry Coon.

Interesting.  I didn't know that.  Thanks.

Point remains the same though.  This is the type of deal agreed upon in June, completed in July.

Ok I'm not trying to be difficult here promise, just trying to understand.

Asik for the Nets/Hawks pick using the TE.  There's no contracts being signed so there's no moratorium there.

Luxury tax doesn't matter, per saltlover's Larry Coon fact regarding the last day of the season.

And there's no moratorium on trades that I'm aware of (unless they involve sign-and-trades or a few other things).

Another little known fact, also per Larry Coon's CBA FAQ, (Question #99) is teams are free to make trades as soon as their season ends (as long as the players contract isn't ending or has an ETO).  Two non-playoff teams can make a trade in May if they wanted.  If you've been bounced from the playoffs, you're free to make a trade with any other team no longer playing.  Doesn't happen often (Chris Webber for Mitch Richmond on May 14, 1999 is the only example I can think of, and even that was a few CBA's ago).

Boston/Houston will likely know where the Hawks/Nets picks is April 16th, the C’s will likely know where their lottery pick is May 20th.  If Houston is out of the playoffs at this point, they can make the trade then, if not they can make it as soon as Houston is done with the playoffs, if they so wanted.

Now I can see why a team might wait till the draft (like in case a player they never thought would drop that far drops, or to get a feel for what other teams are doing), but I see no reason why this would have to wait until July.  I actually see no reason why this would even have to wait until the draft.

This trade can technically be done as soon as both Boston and Houston’s season ends (unless maybe other pieces were being included).

What am I missing or what is wrong about what I said?

[saltlover]

Can't see Boston doing this.  Way too much salary tied up in role players.  Now if Bass was moved in the trade it would make a lot more sense, since if you acquire Asik, Bass gets booted almost entirely out of the rotation.

I think if you do this, Humphries clearly doesn't get re-signed, but I don't know that it should have an impact on Bass next year unless we also draft a power forward or center with our first pick.

Sure, we have a lot of salary tied up in role players, but we're not signing free agents next year, so what does it matter?  The following year some of those role players come off the books, and then we can hopefully replace them with a star, but for 2014-2015, I don't see that as an exceptional hurdle.  The bigger issue in my mind is that Asik might not be worth a one-year rental if we don't think we're re-signing him, and if we don't think we're going to be legitimate contenders.  But I think Rondo walks if we aren't improved next year, and Asik fills one of our two biggest gaps -- defensive anchor and elite scorer.  I think it's going to be very difficult to get the latter, but the former is available.

[saltlover]

No giving up a first for (the expiring and expensive) Asik. We can likely use that in some better deal.
I'm not too sure if he is a guy we will want to have. It seems there will be lots of FA and trade available centers the next two years.

I really doubt there will be other centers as good as Asik available in the next couple years for anywhere near just a mid first rounder. 

And, while Asik will be making a lot of money, his cap hit will be much smaller, which is more important from the basketball side (and luxury tax side), plus, on a one year deal, he won't be making much more than market value for a quality starting center. 

I think drafting a guy for a trade that can't be completed until a week or two later is exceptionally rare. 

It would make more sense to me if it was Asik for the TE, the Clips pick and the Philly pick.

Someone help me out here.  Why couldn’t the trade be completed until a week or two after the draft?

Well, the short answer is because if they wait until the new season, which starts in July, then the C's, who are right up against the luxury tax right now, but will be well below it next season, will not have to pay the luxury tax for this year.

Of course, its more complicated than that, because there is also a hard cap that the C's can't go past, and they would if they aquired Asik without sending additional salary this year, but that isn't even relevant, because we know the C's wouldn't go into the tax in this instance anyways.

Actually, it is the hard cap that is relevant at this point.  The luxury tax is calculated based on rosters from the last day of the regular season, per Larry Coon.

Interesting.  I didn't know that.  Thanks.

Point remains the same though.  This is the type of deal agreed upon in June, completed in July.

Ok I'm not trying to be difficult here promise, just trying to understand.

Asik for the Nets/Hawks pick using the TE.  There's no contracts being signed so there's no moratorium there.

Luxury tax doesn't matter, per saltlover's Larry Coon fact regarding the last day of the season.

And there's no moratorium on trades that I'm aware of (unless they involve sign-and-trades or a few other things).

Another little known fact, also per Larry Coon's CBA FAQ, (Question #99) is teams are free to make trades as soon as their season ends (as long as the players contract isn't ending or has an ETO).  Two non-playoff teams can make a trade in May if they wanted.  If you've been bounced from the playoffs, you're free to make a trade with any other team no longer playing.  Doesn't happen often (Chris Webber for Mitch Richmond on May 14, 1999 is the only example I can think of, and even that was a few CBA's ago).

Boston/Houston will know where the Hawks/Nets picks is April 16th, the C’s will know where their lottery pick is May 20th.  If Houston is out of the playoffs at this point, they can make the trade then, if not they can make it as soon as Houston is done with the playoffs, if they so wanted.

Now I can see why a team might wait till the draft (like in case a player they never thought would drop that far drops, or to get a feel for what other teams are doing), but I see no reason why this would have to wait until July.  I actually see no reason why this would even have to wait until the draft.

This trade can technically be done as soon as both Boston and Houston’s season ends (unless maybe other pieces were being included).

What am I missing or what is wrong about what I said?

What you are missing is that the Celtics are limited by the hard cap of $75.75 million this season, because they acquired Keith Bogans in a sign-and-trade, and because they signed Chris Johnson to a free agent contract of four years (requiring use of the larger mid-level exception).  Right now, the Celtics are about $5 million below that number -- Asik's salary cap number is $8.374 million, so they would be more than $3 million above that number, making such a trade unallowable.  While the luxury tax is determined on the last day of the season, the salary cap stays in place until the new one is set next year.

[CFAN38]

For a while now I have thought that Danny and Morey have a sort of agreement that if nothing better comes along, they will agree to trade the Nets/Atlanta pick for Asik, and it would be agreed upon on draft day, but completed in July, so the C's stay under the tax.

I share this opinion. I think it makes sense for a few reasons,

1. Danny and Daryl are close friends so a "wink wink" deal would be very easy.
2. It would allow Danny to see exactly where the ATL pick falls.
3. It wouldn't improve the team this season and continue to allow the Celtics to have good lottery position.
4. Ron Adams was Thibs assistant in Chicago and by all accounts him and Asik were very close.
5. Celtics can't continue to want to play Sullinger at the 5 and know its best for him to play next to a defensive 5.

Thy must be done.

that is a very solid theory

[Rondohara]

No giving up a first for (the expiring and expensive) Asik. We can likely use that in some better deal.
I'm not too sure if he is a guy we will want to have. It seems there will be lots of FA and trade available centers the next two years.

I really doubt there will be other centers as good as Asik available in the next couple years for anywhere near just a mid first rounder. 

And, while Asik will be making a lot of money, his cap hit will be much smaller, which is more important from the basketball side (and luxury tax side), plus, on a one year deal, he won't be making much more than market value for a quality starting center. 

Not for a mid first, but maybe we can get a way better player for a little more. And there should be guys Asik level possible to acquire without all that much hustle. Also, free agents.

But ask yourself: Do we really want Asik? Shouldn't we wait and save for a better guy?

No need to get overly desperate because "HAVE TO GET a defensive center" mentality.

[LooseCannon]

No need to get overly desperate because "HAVE TO GET a defensive center" mentality.

It's the mentality of "it would be nice to have a center who has the potential to be DPOY and lead the NBA in rebounding".

[Rondohara]

No need to get overly desperate because "HAVE TO GET a defensive center" mentality.

It's the mentality of "it would be nice to have a center who has the potential to be DPOY and lead the NBA in rebounding".

Would be nice, where do we get that guy?
That wouldn't be Asik would it? Not that we could get that kind of player for just a first. But if we want that guy we shouldn't be getting Asik.

Rebounding is overrated as a stat, not that anyone wants a guy (or a team) that rebounds less, it's just that in order to assemble a good team you don't need to go to the top rebounders list and say: Must have one of those or bust.

I would first get a star (perhaps at center) then try to complement the team

[#1P4P]

Morey wanted a 1st round pick to be included for any Asik deal. He didn't get it so he didn't trade.

He's biding his time... "If Gortat can get the Suns a 1st, Asik should too" (must be his line of thinking). He's waiting in hopes of a desperate team.

He might get it, if he doesn't get it before the 2014-15 season, he's going to have to take a similar offer to what he rejected in December because they'll only get worse from there. Regardless of what he says, he's going to trade Omer before his contract ends. the Rockets Owners/Executives/himself are not going to let Morey keep a reserve for $15M.

Asik is nice piece to have, but not for a 1st, a TE probably won't do it. If he can get him for a role player(s) and a 2nd or 2, you accept. If that isn't enough, you move on.

[Moranis]

Can't see Boston doing this.  Way too much salary tied up in role players.  Now if Bass was moved in the trade it would make a lot more sense, since if you acquire Asik, Bass gets booted almost entirely out of the rotation.

I think if you do this, Humphries clearly doesn't get re-signed, but I don't know that it should have an impact on Bass next year unless we also draft a power forward or center with our first pick.

Sure, we have a lot of salary tied up in role players, but we're not signing free agents next year, so what does it matter?  The following year some of those role players come off the books, and then we can hopefully replace them with a star, but for 2014-2015, I don't see that as an exceptional hurdle.  The bigger issue in my mind is that Asik might not be worth a one-year rental if we don't think we're re-signing him, and if we don't think we're going to be legitimate contenders.  But I think Rondo walks if we aren't improved next year, and Asik fills one of our two biggest gaps -- defensive anchor and elite scorer.  I think it's going to be very difficult to get the latter, but the former is available.

Sure you don't re-sign Hump, but I'd rather have Hump than Bass, especially if they are similar money.  I just don't see the point in having all of this wasted money, especially since it means the team will be very close to luxury tax and thus limits moves going forward.  Also by moving Bass, Boston has a greater percentage of the trade exception to use right at the start of free agency to absorb players that other teams want to move to acquire cap space.  I just don't see the point in utilizing the trade exception and giving up a 1st rounder for Asik.  Just not enough financial gain or incentive from Boston in my opinion.