Author Topic: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary  (Read 260360 times)

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Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #555 on: March 08, 2014, 10:49:44 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Think he was saying Howard + Harden would be better than Howard + Westbrook. And the only reason Durant/Westbrook is considered better than Howard/Harden has more to do with Durant being a tier above all three rather than Westbrook being better than Harden or Howard because he's not. Lol hope that made sense. Don't think there's a GM in the league that would take Westbrook over Howard

This sums it up pretty well.

Personally, as of this moment Howard & Harden are playing better than Durant & Westbrook. I'd say it's almost a wash as far as which duo is better, and can see an argument for either pairing being superior to the other.

Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #556 on: March 08, 2014, 10:58:33 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Think he was saying Howard + Harden would be better than Howard + Westbrook. And the only reason Durant/Westbrook is considered better than Howard/Harden has more to do with Durant being a tier above all three rather than Westbrook being better than Harden or Howard because he's not. Lol hope that made sense. Don't think there's a GM in the league that would take Westbrook over Howard

This sums it up pretty well.

Personally, as of this moment Howard & Harden are playing better than Durant & Westbrook. I'd say it's almost a wash as far as which duo is better, and can see an argument for either pairing being superior to the other.

I think that's a bridge too far.  There's a wide gap between Durant and the other three, and I think some folks are under-estimating Westbrook based upon his recovery from injury.  I think Westbrook and Harden are on the same tier, talent-wise.

Howard...  I don't think he has the mentality to win.  He's probably the second most talented of the guys mentioned, and at times the second most dominant, but he truly is a clown.  I think he's lost whatever edge he had as a young player, and I'll be very surprised if he's ever back in the Finals.


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Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #557 on: March 08, 2014, 11:04:42 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Think he was saying Howard + Harden would be better than Howard + Westbrook. And the only reason Durant/Westbrook is considered better than Howard/Harden has more to do with Durant being a tier above all three rather than Westbrook being better than Harden or Howard because he's not. Lol hope that made sense. Don't think there's a GM in the league that would take Westbrook over Howard

This sums it up pretty well.

Personally, as of this moment Howard & Harden are playing better than Durant & Westbrook. I'd say it's almost a wash as far as which duo is better, and can see an argument for either pairing being superior to the other.

I think that's a bridge too far.  There's a wide gap between Durant and the other three, and I think some folks are under-estimating Westbrook based upon his recovery from injury.  I think Westbrook and Harden are on the same tier, talent-wise.

Howard...  I don't think he has the mentality to win.  He's probably the second most talented of the guys mentioned, and at times the second most dominant, but he truly is a clown.  I think he's lost whatever edge he had as a young player, and I'll be very surprised if he's ever back in the Finals.

Yeah, I pretty much disagree with this in entirety.

Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #558 on: March 08, 2014, 11:12:40 PM »

Offline Merovech

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Think he was saying Howard + Harden would be better than Howard + Westbrook. And the only reason Durant/Westbrook is considered better than Howard/Harden has more to do with Durant being a tier above all three rather than Westbrook being better than Harden or Howard because he's not. Lol hope that made sense. Don't think there's a GM in the league that would take Westbrook over Howard

This sums it up pretty well.

Personally, as of this moment Howard & Harden are playing better than Durant & Westbrook. I'd say it's almost a wash as far as which duo is better, and can see an argument for either pairing being superior to the other.

I think that's a bridge too far.  There's a wide gap between Durant and the other three, and I think some folks are under-estimating Westbrook based upon his recovery from injury.  I think Westbrook and Harden are on the same tier, talent-wise.

Howard...  I don't think he has the mentality to win.  He's probably the second most talented of the guys mentioned, and at times the second most dominant, but he truly is a clown.  I think he's lost whatever edge he had as a young player, and I'll be very surprised if he's ever back in the Finals.

I more or less agree with this entirely, though I think that Howard's simply not as good a player as he once was.  Perhaps that is still some lingering effect from his injury, but his downfall from absolute top-tier, All-NBA, to his current, top-20, borderline top-15 status started in 2011.  He had an amazing four season stretch from 2006-07 to 2010-11, and nothing can change that, but he isn't the same player and most likely never will be again.
2014 Pick 2 OKC Thunder
PG: Russell Westbrook
SG: Jeremy Lamb / Jodie Meeks
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Taj Gibson / Derrick Favors
C: Greg Monroe / Brandan Wright
7.19, 8.19, 9.19, 10.19

Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #559 on: March 08, 2014, 11:17:44 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Think he was saying Howard + Harden would be better than Howard + Westbrook. And the only reason Durant/Westbrook is considered better than Howard/Harden has more to do with Durant being a tier above all three rather than Westbrook being better than Harden or Howard because he's not. Lol hope that made sense. Don't think there's a GM in the league that would take Westbrook over Howard

This sums it up pretty well.

Personally, as of this moment Howard & Harden are playing better than Durant & Westbrook. I'd say it's almost a wash as far as which duo is better, and can see an argument for either pairing being superior to the other.

I think that's a bridge too far.  There's a wide gap between Durant and the other three, and I think some folks are under-estimating Westbrook based upon his recovery from injury.  I think Westbrook and Harden are on the same tier, talent-wise.

Howard...  I don't think he has the mentality to win.  He's probably the second most talented of the guys mentioned, and at times the second most dominant, but he truly is a clown.  I think he's lost whatever edge he had as a young player, and I'll be very surprised if he's ever back in the Finals.

Yeah, I pretty much disagree with this in entirety.

Please, defend Dwight's mentality.  I know that you have the kid in the DKC, but his focus hasn't seemed to be on winning for years. 

First, he forces a trade, but only after misleading Orlando.  He publicly got into spats with Van Gundy and D'Antoni.  He flopped in LA largely because he couldn't deal with a demanding alpha-dog like Kobe, and allegedly he was against a Rondo trade because of the same issues.

He wants to show up, collect a pay check, and be a clown.  He doesn't have that killer instinct that the great players have, and because of that, he's never going to win.

I agree with Merovech that there's been some erosion of his athleticism, but I think the mental aspect is just as big of a part.  If he had KG's passion and motor, or Kobe's killer instinct (flawed or not), he'd be unstoppable.  Instead, he's just a guy putting up 19 and 12 who won't make the Conference Finals.


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Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #560 on: March 08, 2014, 11:40:22 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Honestly, having Howard in the DKC has nothing to do with how I feel about Howard, other than Howard is the main reason I picked the franchise.

Dwight may be a jovial individual, and a bit indecisive when it comes to what he wants out of life, but Howard 'wants' to win plenty. Whether or not he knows how, well that can be said about any player until they actually do.

Kobe is an all time jackass, nobody wants to play with him anymore. The Rondo stuff is mere conjecture based on a quote taken out of context. D'Antoni has been a terrible coach since he left Phoenix, big surprise a star player had issues with him, and how he was being used. So does Pau.

It is funny though to hear your opinion of Dwight, being someone who defends Cousins. We obviously aren't going to agree, or change the others mind. I hope you enjoy crow though.

Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #561 on: March 08, 2014, 11:46:01 PM »

Online Roy H.

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It is funny though to hear your opinion of Dwight, being someone who defends Cousins.

Cousins is nothing like Howard, though.  Cousins is fiery and passionate, and gets extraordinarily frustrated by losing. 

Dwight just wants to have a good time.  He might "want" to win, but only on his terms.  He'd rather lose than deal with headstrong coaches or teammates.

As for eating crow, let's just say that I agree with this guy:

I want NO part of Howard.  He is NOT a center piece type player.  He needs someone else to be the leader.

Plus, I'm not sure Dwight has the "proper" mentality to be a Celtic.

Rondo just has so much more of that "winners mentality" than Howard does.  I'd beg you all to go ask KG or Kobe (two players who are widely accepted as the fiercest competitors in the game).  I'd bet everything I own those two would rather have Rondo on their side.  That is all you need to know, IMHO.


Howard makes Rondo look like Patron Saint when it comes to "mentality".

But you're not concerned about Howard's immature attitude, and seeming lack of "killer instinct"?

Let's just say I'd be willing to bet good money Gasol wins a title before Howard ever does.  In fact, I doubt Howard ever will.

Howard is such a poor leader and poor 4th quarter player, there is very little likelihood a team with him as it's best player wins a title.

I'm not sure that that's that much different than what I've been arguing.  Heck, we used the exact same words ("mentality", lack of "killer instinct", will never win a championship, etc).  Howard is a great player, but his mentality is deficient. He's nowhere close to as good as Durant, and he's a lot closer to the Harden / Westbrook tier than he is the Durant one.

So let's just agree to ... agree?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 12:04:20 AM by Roy H. »


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Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #562 on: March 09, 2014, 12:09:53 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Well, can't deny I said that. Turns out I was wrong.   Takes a real man to recognize & admit it.   ;)

This season has brought me back to believing in Howard again. He play is undeniable. His decision to leave Kobe helped bolster that. It showed me he rather blaze his own path, not ride someone else's coattails.

I'm glad though that you have nothing better to to with your time than research all my past posts. You got a lot more posts than I do, I have no doubts I could easily find contradictory past statements of yours too. Not interested though. This ain't a 'you know what' measuring contest.

Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #563 on: March 09, 2014, 12:19:14 AM »

Offline Merovech

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He play is undeniable.

And this is where you and I disagree, I guess.
2014 Pick 2 OKC Thunder
PG: Russell Westbrook
SG: Jeremy Lamb / Jodie Meeks
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Taj Gibson / Derrick Favors
C: Greg Monroe / Brandan Wright
7.19, 8.19, 9.19, 10.19

Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #564 on: March 09, 2014, 01:00:30 AM »

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Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #565 on: March 09, 2014, 01:24:28 AM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #566 on: March 09, 2014, 06:13:43 AM »

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Howard...  I don't think he has the mentality to win.  He's probably the second most talented of the guys mentioned, and at times the second most dominant, but he truly is a clown.  I think he's lost whatever edge he had as a young player, and I'll be very surprised if he's ever back in the Finals.

I'd be shocked if Houston don't make the Finals over the next few years.

Heck, I'd be surprised if they didn't a Championship(s?). That Harden and Dwight combination is just so strong + with Morey there, Houston will have a strong supporting cast around them given time.

Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #567 on: March 09, 2014, 06:21:48 AM »

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I'd go Durant > Harden, Dwight > Westbrook

I think Westbrook can be on a par with Harden + Dwight at times but I don't believe that Westbrook is at that level consistently enough which is why I'd drop him a tier behind those two other guys.

Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #568 on: March 09, 2014, 06:36:10 AM »

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As for duos to build around,

I'd go Harden, Dwight > Durant, Westbrook ... because I think the inside-outside combination is a much better duo to build around. You have your top scorer (like OKC), your second option (like OKC) and a top defender/rebounder (unlike OKC). A terrific foundation on both ends of the floor.

I just believe that Houston gives you a better foundation to build around and more flexibility in the draft and in trades because it gives you that foundation on both ends of the floor. Houston can take BPA across players with multiple differing skill-sets whereas OKC (out of necessity) has to focus on interior defense + rebounding which limits their drafting / trade options.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 06:49:15 AM by Who »

Re: 2014 Pick 2: General Commentary
« Reply #569 on: March 09, 2014, 06:45:06 AM »

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I don't think Dwight Howard is as good as he used to be either.

I had Dwight Howard on a par with LeBron James back in 2009 + 2010 + 2011 and thought Dwight should have been the MVP one of those years.

I don't think Dwight Howard is the defensive force he was back then. When he was unquestionably the DPOY for several years running. To just being one of several DPOY candidates nowadays. Nor is he as good offensively. Not as efficient / lethal as he was at his peak. Still, his overall package as one of the top rebounders in the league + one of the top interior defenders + a strong offensive threat who is an efficient 18-20ppg scorer is one heck of an overall package.

I still have him on my second tier of stars. As a top 5-7 player. Albeit not at that MVP level I thought Dwight was at a few years ago where I'd have him on a par with what LeBron + Durant are doing now.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 06:54:56 AM by Who »