Kyrie Irving

[gpap]

It appears there's talk that if the Cavs can't extend Kyrie long-term this summer, that they may look to deal him.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10514819/cleveland-cavaliers-lose-kyrie-irving

So, here's a question: Would you deal for Kyrie Irving this summer?

Admittedly, I am a big Kyrie fan. Also, I think it may be possible that you can land him and play him at the 2 beside Rondo.

I think a Rondo/Irving back court would be awesome.

And then, if you're Kevin Love, wouldn't a trio of Rondo, Irving and Sully (provided you wouldn't need to deal him for Irving) look like a pretty nice team to play with?

If you couldn't deal for Love this summer, maybe he'd want to come here via free agency in 2015.

[Chris]

I don't think Rondo and Kyrie would fit together.  It just wouldn't make sense.  Too small, and they both need the ball in their hands to be successful.  But if Kyrie does hit the market, I would strongly consider trying to pursue him, perhaps in the three-way deal sending out Rondo (I don't think Cleveland would be interested in Rondo, since he would probably walk next summer too). 

[Moranis]

I can't see Boston putting together a reasonable package for Irving that doesn't start with Rondo and frankly I don't think Cleveland would want Rondo without an extension on him (given that is the reason they would trade Irving to begin with).  Cleveland doesn't want a bunch of draft picks, they want a star back in return (plus draft picks of course), so a trade based on mostly picks just won't cut it.  In fact I think the trade would have to start with Rondo and Sullinger and probably a future draft pick or two, and that just seems like an awfully steep price for Irving (who would obviously need to sign an extension for Boston to trade for him).

[Fafnir]

I don't see Rondo/Kyrie working. If he's willing to play on the QO tender then I'd be hesitant to deal for him as he'd probably do the same in Boston too.

Beyond that I'm down on Kyrie. He's still a talented isolation scorer and not much of a playmaker or defender. He's still very young but 3 years in he should be improving not staying about the same level of player.

[manl_lui]

I don't think Rondo and Kyrie would fit together.  It just wouldn't make sense.  Too small, and they both need the ball in their hands to be successful.  But if Kyrie does hit the market, I would strongly consider trying to pursue him, perhaps in the three-way deal sending out Rondo (I don't think Cleveland would be interested in Rondo, since he would probably walk next summer too).

it definitely does not make sense. Both pg playing together?? who's playing SG? both are undersized as SG. And Kyrie won't like backing up Rondo and vice versa. If we are getting Kyrie, we are trading Rondo straight up.

How about injury problems? If Kyrie injury prone? If he is fully healthy I won't mind pulling the trigger for Kyrie

And finally his attitude. He is given the Lebron treatment in CLE, wherever he goes, will he be given the same? Teams like Bos, LA, Spurs, MIA, Indiana don't have the time to deal with divas. It might be a huge risk to have someone kill the locker room.

[gpap]

I don't think Rondo and Kyrie would fit together.  It just wouldn't make sense.

Well, if that's the case then goodbye to Rondo

[Moranis]

I was trying to come up with a reasonable trade scenario and I came up with something like this

Boston - Irving, Zeller, Gee (for dollars)
Lakers - Rondo
Cleveland - Sullinger, Green, LA 2014 player (Smart, Exum, etc.), Boston 2015 1st (lottery protected) or LAC 1st and Boston 2015 2nd (if Boston 1st is in lottery)

Obviously Irving needs to sign the extension, but I think this is the sort of trade that would make sense for all three teams.  The Lakers would need to do the trade when they had cap room as their rookie's salary is way less than Rondo. 

I'm not sure I do the trade if I'm Boston, but I think that is the sort of trade that it would take to get a newly extended Irving. 

If you make the trade Boston would like this (after re-signing Bradley, Bayless, and Hump):

PG - Irving, Bayless, Pressey
SG - Bradley, ?, Johnson
SF - 2014 rookie (TJ Warren?), Wallace
PF - 2014 rookie (Julius Randle?), Olynyk, Bass
C - Humphries, Zeller, Faverani, Anthony

Depending on the rookies (nbadraft.net has Boston taking PF Julius Randle at 4 and SF TJ Warren at 17), I think that team might develop into a real contender in a season or two.

[henr1k]

I don't see Rondo/Kyrie working. If he's willing to play on the QO tender then I'd be hesitant to deal for him as he'd probably do the same in Boston too.

Beyond that I'm down on Kyrie. He's still a talented isolation scorer and not much of a playmaker or defender. He's still very young but 3 years in he should be improving not staying about the same level of player.

I couldn't agree more. His game reminds me of Steve Francis or Stephon Marbury (minus the off court stuff of course).

Here are stats of all 3 of them in their 3rd year.

Marbury 21.3 Pts 8.9 Ast .428 FG .335 3P% .799 FT PER=20.8
Francis 21.6 Pts 6.4 Ast .417 FG .324 3P% .773 FT PER=19.1
Irving  21.5 Pts 6.2 Ast .427 FG .369 3P% .855 FT PER=20

Obviously we can't just assume he won't improve in other areas of his game or that he will flame out like those two but so far his game doesn't translate to winning games.

To be considered a cornerstone of a franchise IMO you have to be a two way player. Otherwise, he will be another Marbury, big contract - stats padding quasi all star that doesn't lead his team to winning.

[manl_lui]

I was trying to come up with a reasonable trade scenario and I came up with something like this

Boston - Irving, Zeller, Gee (for dollars)
Lakers - Rondo
Cleveland - Sullinger, Green, LA 2014 player (Smart, Exum, etc.), Boston 2015 1st (lottery protected) or LAC 1st and Boston 2015 2nd (if Boston 1st is in lottery)

Obviously Irving needs to sign the extension, but I think this is the sort of trade that would make sense for all three teams.  The Lakers would need to do the trade when they had cap room as their rookie's salary is way less than Rondo. 

I'm not sure I do the trade if I'm Boston, but I think that is the sort of trade that it would take to get a newly extended Irving. 

If you make the trade Boston would like this (after re-signing Bradley, Bayless, and Hump):

PG - Irving, Bayless, Pressey
SG - Bradley, ?, Johnson
SF - 2014 rookie (TJ Warren?), Wallace
PF - 2014 rookie (Julius Randle?), Olynyk, Bass
C - Humphries, Zeller, Faverani, Anthony

Depending on the rookies (nbadraft.net has Boston taking PF Julius Randle at 4 and SF TJ Warren at 17), I think that team might develop into a real contender in a season or two.

that team isn't going anywhere in my opinion. If we trade Rondo, Sully, AND Green, we better be getting another star back to pair with Irving. Throw in some picks. I am also not completely sold on Randle.

Irving/(Wiggins/Embiid/Parker) might be a good duo, but even then, we'd still have a weak PF/Center rotation for at least a year or two. If we trade Sullinger, with the teams you listed, I rather have Varejao back, or a Pau Gasol

[Moranis]

I don't see Rondo/Kyrie working. If he's willing to play on the QO tender then I'd be hesitant to deal for him as he'd probably do the same in Boston too.

Beyond that I'm down on Kyrie. He's still a talented isolation scorer and not much of a playmaker or defender. He's still very young but 3 years in he should be improving not staying about the same level of player.

I couldn't agree more. His game reminds me of Steve Francis or Stephon Marbury (minus the off court stuff of course).

Here are stats of all 3 of them in their 3rd year.

Marbury 21.3 Pts 8.9 Ast .428 FG .335 3P% .799 FT PER=20.8
Francis 21.6 Pts 6.4 Ast .417 FG .324 3P% .773 FT PER=19.1
Irving  21.5 Pts 6.2 Ast .427 FG .369 3P% .855 FT PER=20

Obviously we can't just assume he won't improve in other areas of his game or that he will flame out like those two but so far his game doesn't translate to winning games.

To be considered a cornerstone of a franchise IMO you have to be a two way player. Otherwise, he will be another Marbury, big contract - stats padding quasi all star that doesn't lead his team to winning.

The thing is, Kyrie has gotten worse pretty much every year he has been in the league, both in per minute totals AND efficiency.  So he is producing less and is less efficient.  That is a bad sign for a 21 yr old.

[CFAN38]

It appears there's talk that if the Cavs can't extend Kyrie long-term this summer, that they may look to deal him.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10514819/cleveland-cavaliers-lose-kyrie-irving

So, here's a question: Would you deal for Kyrie Irving this summer?

Admittedly, I am a big Kyrie fan. Also, I think it may be possible that you can land him and play him at the 2 beside Rondo.

I think a Rondo/Irving back court would be awesome.

And then, if you're Kevin Love, wouldn't a trio of Rondo, Irving and Sully (provided you wouldn't need to deal him for Irving) look like a pretty nice team to play with?

If you couldn't deal for Love this summer, maybe he'd want to come here via free agency in 2015.

No way I see Rondo with Irving. They are just a poor fit both need the ball to be effective. Not to be negative but I think Love would look at Rondo, Irving and Sully as a terrible pairing of talent. Two ball dominant PGs and two below the rim PFS are a poor foundation for a team.

[slamtheking]

I don't see Rondo and Irving meshing well on the court.  both need the ball. 

also wouldn't swap Rondo for Irving-->Irving's the better scorer but I don't see him as a leader or as a player that improves the play of his teammates.  Irving seems like the player that needs to be the top gun on the team but I don't see him as being good enough to win a title as a team's top gun

[CelticG1]

Any chance of buying low on irving?

Seems like a crappy situation for him slash crappy organization

Id think a lot of guys in the NBA would turn out differently if they were on different organizations.

[PaulAllen]

Any chance of buying low on irving?

Seems like a crappy situation for him slash crappy organization

Id think a lot of guys in the NBA would turn out differently if they were on different organizations.

There is no way Irving would come at a low price... He is in the 2nd class of NBA superstars and is still young... The Cavs would get 2 proven young players and 3 firsts for him...

[CelticG1]

Any chance of buying low on irving?

Seems like a crappy situation for him slash crappy organization

Id think a lot of guys in the NBA would turn out differently if they were on different organizations.

There is no way Irving would come at a low price... He is in the 2nd class of NBA superstars and is still young... The Cavs would get 2 proven young players and 3 firsts for him...

Yeah well i meant relatively speaking. His stock is going down a bit id say