Author Topic: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward  (Read 16252 times)

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Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2014, 09:55:09 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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No way I'd give up Bradley for Hayward.  Right now Bradley is IMHO a more valuable player for us, and likely to accept a much smaller contract.

Hayward has been a horrible offensive player this year, and he's a mediocre defender.  The only thing on his side is size at his position, and that's not enough in this league. 

No way in hell I'd pay $13M for a player of Hayward's calibre.

To say that Hayward has been horrible on offense this year just isn't true. Yes his % is lower but at the same time hes being asked to do more than he ever has on an awful team. He has managed to improve both his rebounding and play making while keeping his points roughly equal even with his poor percentages.

Umm...

He's shooting 40% from the field and 30% from three, and he's averaging 16 points and 5.5 rebounds in 36 minutes...for a 6'8" guard/forward who's offensive game is his main asset.

Bradley is shooting 44% from the field and 36% from three, and is averaging 17 points and 4.6 rebounds...for an undersized guard who has never been known for his offense.

You say the drop-off in Hayward's efficiency is due to him being forced into a bigger role on a bad team...how about Bradley?  He's Boston's #2 scoring option this year (you could argue #1) on a team that is on target to finish with a bottom 5 record.

That's not even bringing up the defence argument...where Bradley is so far superior it's not even fair to compare.

Even Jeff Green vs Hayward goes in Boston's favour.  Green is on par with Hayward offensively but is more athletic, bigger and a far superior defender.

Hayward is grossly overrated, just like Asik (the other guy CB people seem to be obsessed with).

Let me tell you now...if we move forward with Hayward and Asik as key components moving forward then you better prepare for a LOT of losing seasons...

Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2014, 09:56:59 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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According to Marc Stein:

Quote
In Hayward's case, sources told ESPN.com that the former Butler star was not seeking the four-year max but did push for a deal commensurate with his standing as the face of Utah's rebuilding effort.

I am guessing Hayward wants to be paid more than Derrick Favors, who got four years and $47 million.  Stein said they were reluctant to go beyond $50m, so I would guess he was asking for around $54-55m. 

Trading for Hayward should mean that you are willing to match offer sheets that get that big.
I would pay him 12-13 mm because otherwise he won't sign with Us. I think we get him in a sign and trade in the offseason

Yikes. Im a  fan of GH but I don't think id pay him that. You're approaching max money.
Well in my mind either we pay him that much or we have no chance of him playing here. I think he could be the Ray Allen to Kevin Love's kg. Field a playoff team lead by rondo Hayward and our top pick and we could convince k love that we are the up and coming team to take him to the promise land.

I think not...

Hayward is no better overall than Bradley is, and getting him in Boston isn't going to draw in free agents any more than Bradley does now.

Hayward is not a star, not even close.  He's an above average starter with good size who is still fairly young.

I see him as a Trevor Ariza clone, only without Ariza's defence or athleticism.  Best case he could become a Steve Smith type, but to e honest I think  Bradley has more potential because of his athleticism, his extreme work ethic, and the fact that he contributes on both ends of the court.  I also like the fact that Bradley can still contribute without the ball in his hands, while Hayward really is a chucker.

Kinda reminds me of a 6'8" Jordan Crawford actually.

This amazes me.  Hayward is a chucker, but Bradley isn't one:-)))) Bradley rarely ever successfully drives the ball to the hole due to his short stature.  Hayward can score from everywhere.  He does not settle for contested 18 footers like Bradley has done ALL stinking year!! Bradley is my most despised player for our C's this year.  His defense has stunk since fat boy Raymond Felton DESTROYED him in last year's playoffs!!!  His defense has NOT stood out to me AT ALL this year.  He looks like a differently defensive player!!!

Smitty77

Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2014, 09:59:45 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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During team USA's workouts this summer Hayward was praised by the coaches for his defense. I'm not gonna get too invested in correcting some of the analysis here, I'll leave it at if Gordon Hayward were ever to be a member of the Celtics we would adore the crap out of him.

You might...sitting back and watching him jack up bricks every game would leave be mighty frustrated...and re-signing him for $12M/year or more (after he expires) would prove a team-crippling GM disaster of Ben Gordon / Charlie Villenueva proportions.

Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2014, 10:06:39 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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During team USA's workouts this summer Hayward was praised by the coaches for his defense. I'm not gonna get too invested in correcting some of the analysis here, I'll leave it at if Gordon Hayward were ever to be a member of the Celtics we would adore the crap out of him.

You might...sitting back and watching him jack up bricks every game would leave be mighty frustrated...and re-signing him for $12M/year or more (after he expires) would prove a team-crippling GM disaster of Ben Gordon / Charlie Villenueva proportions.

I don't agree with your scouting of Hayward, doesn't match up at all with the thousands of words Ive read on him, or the games I've watched.

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Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2014, 10:07:33 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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No way I'd give up Bradley for Hayward.  Right now Bradley is IMHO a more valuable player for us, and likely to accept a much smaller contract.

Hayward has been a horrible offensive player this year, and he's a mediocre defender.  The only thing on his side is size at his position, and that's not enough in this league. 

No way in hell I'd pay $13M for a player of Hayward's calibre.

To say that Hayward has been horrible on offense this year just isn't true. Yes his % is lower but at the same time hes being asked to do more than he ever has on an awful team. He has managed to improve both his rebounding and play making while keeping his points roughly equal even with his poor percentages.

Umm...

He's shooting 40% from the field and 30% from three, and he's averaging 16 points and 5.5 rebounds in 36 minutes...for a 6'8" guard/forward who's offensive game is his main asset.

Bradley is shooting 44% from the field and 36% from three, and is averaging 17 points and 4.6 rebounds...for an undersized guard who has never been known for his offense.

You say the drop-off in Hayward's efficiency is due to him being forced into a bigger role on a bad team...how about Bradley?  He's Boston's #2 scoring option this year (you could argue #1) on a team that is on target to finish with a bottom 5 record.

That's not even bringing up the defence argument...where Bradley is so far superior it's not even fair to compare.

Even Jeff Green vs Hayward goes in Boston's favour.  Green is on par with Hayward offensively but is more athletic, bigger and a far superior defender.

Hayward is grossly overrated, just like Asik (the other guy CB people seem to be obsessed with).

Let me tell you now...if we move forward with Hayward and Asik as key components moving forward then you better prepare for a LOT of losing seasons...

Do you understand efficiency ratings???  Hayward's PER this year is 16.5.  He is averaging 1.45 steals and .66 blocks per game.  Gordon is averaging 5.0 assists and only 2.7 turnovers.  He is also shooting 83.6% at the FT line.  Bradley's PER is a 12.4 and he is averaging 1.04 steals and .22 blocks.  Bradley is averaging 1.4 assists and 1.6 turnovers.  That is HORRIBLE for a 6' 2" guard.  Avery is shooting 75.6% at the line.

Bradley is ONLY averaging 1.9 FT attempts per game this year and Hayward is averaging 4.7 FT attempts per game this year.

Also, Bradley is average only 13.7 points per game.  You cannot ASSUME that he would average 17 points in 36 minutes.  There has been a reason why Avery is ONLY playing 30 minutes per game.  All he does is shoot contested long range two point shots and almost NEVER drives the ball to the hole.  He is the shortest starting 2-guard in the entire NBA if I am not mistaken!!!

Smitty77
 

Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #65 on: February 18, 2014, 10:11:47 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I see him as a Trevor Ariza clone, only without Ariza's defence or athleticism.  Best case he could become a Steve Smith type, but to e honest I think  Bradley has more potential because of his athleticism, his extreme work ethic, and the fact that he contributes on both ends of the court.  I also like the fact that Bradley can still contribute without the ball in his hands, while Hayward really is a chucker.

Kinda reminds me of a 6'8" Jordan Crawford actually.

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Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #66 on: February 18, 2014, 10:27:47 PM »

Offline Mr October

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I would rather try to get Aaron aflalo to play 2 guard on this team, especially if he and Hayward end up costing the same.

Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #67 on: February 18, 2014, 10:35:10 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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During team USA's workouts this summer Hayward was praised by the coaches for his defense. I'm not gonna get too invested in correcting some of the analysis here, I'll leave it at if Gordon Hayward were ever to be a member of the Celtics we would adore the crap out of him.

You might...sitting back and watching him jack up bricks every game would leave be mighty frustrated...and re-signing him for $12M/year or more (after he expires) would prove a team-crippling GM disaster of Ben Gordon / Charlie Villenueva proportions.

I don't agree with your scouting of Hayward, doesn't match up at all with the thousands of words Ive read on him, or the games I've watched.

I'm with you on this one, IP. I think his shooting this year has all the hallmarks of an anomaly, and there aren't too many guys in the league who can give you 5 apg and 5 rpg.

I also think Hayward's athleticism and defensive efforts are under-sold. He is actually one of the better shot-blockers in the game at his position, for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHDA_mZTpgs#t=83


Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #68 on: February 18, 2014, 10:50:24 PM »

Offline BballTim

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During team USA's workouts this summer Hayward was praised by the coaches for his defense. I'm not gonna get too invested in correcting some of the analysis here, I'll leave it at if Gordon Hayward were ever to be a member of the Celtics we would adore the crap out of him.

  Hopefully. I've seen a little of Utah recently and his defense was pretty poor. I think at this point in time, if the Celts want Hayward, they should hope his current season is lowering his value and making him easier to acquire.

Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2014, 12:14:35 AM »

Offline jyyzzoel

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gordon hayward = jeff green + 3 more assists per game.

overrated.

Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2014, 03:51:38 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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This amazes me.  Hayward is a chucker, but Bradley isn't one:-)))) Bradley rarely ever successfully drives the ball to the hole due to his short stature.  Hayward can score from everywhere.  He does not settle for contested 18 footers like Bradley has done ALL stinking year!! Bradley is my most despised player for our C's this year.  His defense has stunk since fat boy Raymond Felton DESTROYED him in last year's playoffs!!!  His defense has NOT stood out to me AT ALL this year.  He looks like a differently defensive player!!!

Smitty77
If Hayward can score from everywhere, why is he shooting so poorly? Just asserting isn't enough when the numbers seem to contradict you so strongly.

It is also hard to take people seriously when they go off on Bradley's defense. You can harp on single games like with Felton, but it just comes down to you not liking Bradley so you will try to discount everything he does--even the skill that everyone in the league agrees he is great at.

I'm not sure how you got the idea that there is any NBA player capable of shutting down all opponents each time out. Not even Bill Russell could do that.

That being said, I am open to a Hayward trade. I think he is talented.

Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #71 on: February 19, 2014, 03:56:44 AM »

Offline clover

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During team USA's workouts this summer Hayward was praised by the coaches for his defense. I'm not gonna get too invested in correcting some of the analysis here, I'll leave it at if Gordon Hayward were ever to be a member of the Celtics we would adore the crap out of him.

You might...sitting back and watching him jack up bricks every game would leave be mighty frustrated...and re-signing him for $12M/year or more (after he expires) would prove a team-crippling GM disaster of Ben Gordon / Charlie Villenueva proportions.

I don't agree with your scouting of Hayward, doesn't match up at all with the thousands of words Ive read on him, or the games I've watched.

I'm with you on this one, IP. I think his shooting this year has all the hallmarks of an anomaly, and there aren't too many guys in the league who can give you 5 apg and 5 rpg.

I also think Hayward's athleticism and defensive efforts are under-sold. He is actually one of the better shot-blockers in the game at his position, for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHDA_mZTpgs#t=83

This is the only year he's hit 5 on assists or rebounds, per 36 or per game, and his own offense seems to be suffering for it.

On the other hand, he is still only 23.

Re: Source: Celtics interested in Utah's Hayward
« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2014, 04:18:53 AM »

Offline Croc Hunter

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gordon hayward = jeff green + 3 more assists per game.

overrated.

Hayward = better fit in Stevens system