You don't trade Rondo

[LarBrd33]

Rondo isn't a top 20 player.  Pierce wasn't really a top 20 player either.  In both instances, I loved those guys.  In both instances, I preferred keeping them and landing a couple superstars by other means (draft, free agency, trades).  In both instances, I felt that we might need to trade them while they were still at peak value. 

In Pierce's case, we somehow landed a superstar (KG) and another all-star for him to run with.  It worked out for 3.5 years.

In Rondo's case... he's 28 years old and still has some gas left in the tank.  Our 2nd best player on the team is a pretty good sophomore (top 7).  That's not going to get it done.  I still prefer somehow landing some superstars (either through free agency, the draft or trade) and keeping Rondo... but I also see the logic in moving him now.

Most seem to say this team will not contend for another 3-5 years. In 5 years, Rondo will be 33 years old. 

[Donoghus]

Rondo isn't a top 20 player.  Pierce wasn't really a top 20 player either.  In both instances, I loved those guys.  In both instances, I preferred keeping them and landing a couple superstars by other means (draft, free agency, trades).  In both instances, I felt that we might need to trade them while they were still at peak value. 

In Pierce's case, we somehow landed a superstar (KG) and another all-star for him to run with.  It worked out for 3.5 years.

In Rondo's case... he's 28 years old and still has some gas left in the tank.  Our 2nd best player on the team is a pretty good sophomore (top 7).  That's not going to get it done.  I still prefer somehow landing some superstars (either through free agency, the draft or trade) and keeping Rondo... but I also see the logic in moving him now.

Most seem to say this team will not contend for another 3-5 years. In 5 years, Rondo will be 33 years old.

Pierce wasn't a top 20 player in his prime? Are you kidding me?

[tstorey_97]

Celticsblog should send Rondo a check every week for content. He is the man.

The Rondo discussions follow a general pattern.

PART 1

Blogger: "trade Rondo for player A..."
Blogger: "Rondo is better than that player...you're crazy..."

Blogger: "Trade Rondo for pix..."
Blogger: "Rondo for a potential bust 19 year old?..you're crazy"

There is only ONE point that applies in this discussion...

5 to 6 years $85M to $100M (Rondo will not give Boston a discount....again. His representatives simply aren't that stupid). One group insists that Ainge must pay the above and one group prefers a trade. No middle ground here, one or the other.
 
PART TWO

If Ainge passes on a new contract for Rondo, a trade must occur and what will it be?

This is where the debate goes back to the start and is easily settled. Rondo is a horse. You trade him for a horse and also, some ponies. Why the additional ponies? Because the NBA rarely sees a star like Rondo become available. You can shake all the stats you want, Lebron James and Kobe Bryant have both stated that Rajon Rondo is at the top of the point guard group. They are hall of famers and they love this kid.

It does not strengthen your argument to just "hang" stats on a player. (Christmas, look at KC Jones numbers, 8 rings and a NCAA title) Bryant states he wants Rondo running the floor on his team? He has cred that a blogger never will. Lebron doesn't care about Rondo's numbers, he has watched Rondo cut his teams up for years.

Thus, you trade Rondo for a star who comes to Boston and wins us games and...Ainge will demand some ponies too.

My thoughts are there are only a handful of guys you trade Rondo for, this "market limitation" might get Ainge to pay Rondo the above bone crushing contract and keep him. I would be happy to see Rondo stay in green, he is just a superb overall player, a game changer. If I had a good team? I would still take Rondo over all the "stat king" PG's mentioned at this blog.

The issue? This team will require a miracle of sorts to "get Rondo the team he needs." Miracles have happened, but, will the Boston Celtics "get it together" in 3 years? 4 years? Before Rondo's next deal is done?

[celticbos]

I really think Rondo and Danny trust eachother in where the road lays ahead. Rondo can sign an extention and if he and Danny see the best road, that will be the one both head.

[LarBrd33]

Rondo isn't a top 20 player.  Pierce wasn't really a top 20 player either.  In both instances, I loved those guys.  In both instances, I preferred keeping them and landing a couple superstars by other means (draft, free agency, trades).  In both instances, I felt that we might need to trade them while they were still at peak value. 

In Pierce's case, we somehow landed a superstar (KG) and another all-star for him to run with.  It worked out for 3.5 years.

In Rondo's case... he's 28 years old and still has some gas left in the tank.  Our 2nd best player on the team is a pretty good sophomore (top 7).  That's not going to get it done.  I still prefer somehow landing some superstars (either through free agency, the draft or trade) and keeping Rondo... but I also see the logic in moving him now.

Most seem to say this team will not contend for another 3-5 years. In 5 years, Rondo will be 33 years old.

Pierce wasn't a top 20 player in his prime? Are you kidding me?

I think he was for a single season.  Generally he was about on a par with Ray Allen... lower-tier all-stars.

[Donoghus]

Rondo isn't a top 20 player.  Pierce wasn't really a top 20 player either.  In both instances, I loved those guys.  In both instances, I preferred keeping them and landing a couple superstars by other means (draft, free agency, trades).  In both instances, I felt that we might need to trade them while they were still at peak value. 

In Pierce's case, we somehow landed a superstar (KG) and another all-star for him to run with.  It worked out for 3.5 years.

In Rondo's case... he's 28 years old and still has some gas left in the tank.  Our 2nd best player on the team is a pretty good sophomore (top 7).  That's not going to get it done.  I still prefer somehow landing some superstars (either through free agency, the draft or trade) and keeping Rondo... but I also see the logic in moving him now.

Most seem to say this team will not contend for another 3-5 years. In 5 years, Rondo will be 33 years old.

Pierce wasn't a top 20 player in his prime? Are you kidding me?

I think he was for a single season.  Generally he was about on a par with Ray Allen... lower-tier all-stars.

So he's gonna be in the hall of fame yet there was only one season in his entire career where he was a top 20 player in the NBA? That legitimately makes about zero sense.

So which season then?

[chambers]

Rondo isn't a top 20 player.  Pierce wasn't really a top 20 player either.  In both instances, I loved those guys.  In both instances, I preferred keeping them and landing a couple superstars by other means (draft, free agency, trades).  In both instances, I felt that we might need to trade them while they were still at peak value. 

In Pierce's case, we somehow landed a superstar (KG) and another all-star for him to run with.  It worked out for 3.5 years.

In Rondo's case... he's 28 years old and still has some gas left in the tank.  Our 2nd best player on the team is a pretty good sophomore (top 7).  That's not going to get it done.  I still prefer somehow landing some superstars (either through free agency, the draft or trade) and keeping Rondo... but I also see the logic in moving him now.

Most seem to say this team will not contend for another 3-5 years. In 5 years, Rondo will be 33 years old.

Pierce was better in his prime and was easily a top 10 player in his prime.
Pierce was a better player when KG and Ray arrived than Rondo is now. Without Pierce there's no championship.
Our team was brilliant but we relied on difficult shots (jump shooting)and thus we took the long road to the finals with loooong series after long series for the most part.

You don't have to drag Pierce through the mud to bring him 'down' to Rondo's level. Rondo's probably a top 15-25 player when he's healthy and in his prime- but Pierce was top 5-10 in the NBA IMO.

[LarBrd33]

Rondo isn't a top 20 player.  Pierce wasn't really a top 20 player either.  In both instances, I loved those guys.  In both instances, I preferred keeping them and landing a couple superstars by other means (draft, free agency, trades).  In both instances, I felt that we might need to trade them while they were still at peak value. 

In Pierce's case, we somehow landed a superstar (KG) and another all-star for him to run with.  It worked out for 3.5 years.

In Rondo's case... he's 28 years old and still has some gas left in the tank.  Our 2nd best player on the team is a pretty good sophomore (top 7).  That's not going to get it done.  I still prefer somehow landing some superstars (either through free agency, the draft or trade) and keeping Rondo... but I also see the logic in moving him now.

Most seem to say this team will not contend for another 3-5 years. In 5 years, Rondo will be 33 years old.

Pierce wasn't a top 20 player in his prime? Are you kidding me?

I think he was for a single season.  Generally he was about on a par with Ray Allen... lower-tier all-stars.

I checked into it.  I think the quickest way to determine the best players (at least statistically) is to look at their EFF.  It's just points + rebounds + steals + blocks + assists... subtract missed shots and turnovers.   Not a perfect system, but pretty good for conventional stats.  Here's the rankings for the key guys since 1999.

1999-2000:

KG = #2
Allen #19
Pierce = #29

2000-2001:

KG = #2
Allen = #9
Pierce = #18

2001-2002:

KG = #2
Pierce = #9
Allen = #41

2002-2003:

KG = #1
Pierce = #8
Allen = #9

2003-2004:

KG = #1
Allen = #15
Pierce = #17

2004-2005:

KG = #1
Pierce = #17
Allen = #31

2005-2006:

KG = #1
Pierce = #12
Allen = #23

2006-2007:

KG = #1
Allen = #24
Pierce = #29
Rondo = #175

2007-2008:

KG = #8
Pierce = #36
Allen = #83
Rondo = #96

2008-2009:

Garnett = #20
Rondo = #34
Pierce = #39
Allen = #65

2009-2010:

Rondo = #26
Garnett = #43
Pierce = #50
Allen = #92

2010-2011:

Garnett = #21
Pierce = #29
Rondo = #40
Allen = #65

2011-2012:

Rondo = #15
Garnett = #16
Pierce = #37
Allen = #113

2012-2013:

Rondo = #15
Pierce = #34
Garnett = #38
Allen = #175
Sullinger = #177

2013-2014:

Sullinger = #78
Pierce = #98
Green = #117
Bradley = #148
Rondo = #151
Garnett = #152
Allen = #183


So you can see KG was always a superstar.  Pierce and Allen both briefly cracked into the Top 10.  Never a top 5 guy.   Rondo was a Top 15 guy in his prime. 

Thus, I admit... saying they weren't Top 20 was an exaggeration.   Still... none of those guys qualify as superstar (top 5). 

[Celtics4ever]

Rondo was a Top 15 guy in his prime. 

Do you really think he reached his prime.   I think they saw he can still play and benched him for tank on.

[colincb]

Nice attempt at a save. Rondo's still in his prime and EFF is dominated by offense and rewards inefficiency.

Prior to 06-07, both Allen and Pierce were pretty consistent top 20 EFF performers. In 2006-7 Allen and Pierce were injured on tanking teams. Thereafter, they were past 30, on 3-star contending teams, and their EFFS were bound to go down.

[Fafnir]

NBA efficiency is a joke. PER at least is pace adjusted.

The break even point on shooting for EFF is 33%, make 1 shot (2 point), miss 2 = net even on EFF. So shooting 40 times at 40% will increase your EFF. Meanwhile you'll have shot your team out of the game.

And Paul Pierce was a top 5 player his best season or two, he was top 20 for probably a decade.

[BballTim]

Rondo isn't a top 20 player.  Pierce wasn't really a top 20 player either.  In both instances, I loved those guys.  In both instances, I preferred keeping them and landing a couple superstars by other means (draft, free agency, trades).  In both instances, I felt that we might need to trade them while they were still at peak value. 

In Pierce's case, we somehow landed a superstar (KG) and another all-star for him to run with.  It worked out for 3.5 years.

In Rondo's case... he's 28 years old and still has some gas left in the tank.  Our 2nd best player on the team is a pretty good sophomore (top 7).  That's not going to get it done.  I still prefer somehow landing some superstars (either through free agency, the draft or trade) and keeping Rondo... but I also see the logic in moving him now.

Most seem to say this team will not contend for another 3-5 years. In 5 years, Rondo will be 33 years old.

Pierce wasn't a top 20 player in his prime? Are you kidding me?

I think he was for a single season.  Generally he was about on a par with Ray Allen... lower-tier all-stars.

  Ray Allen was never on par with PP. He couldn't do anything as well as PP other than possibly scoring.