Idea: Green & Bass to DET, Smith & Wallace to NYK, STAT & assets to BOS

[ssspence]

There's only one team in the NBA I could see taking Josh Smith from Detroit right now.... New York.

Here's my idea:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lqr4efy

DET gets: Green, Bass
NYK gets: Smith, Wallace
BOS gets: Amare, Hardaway, Mitchell, Singler, Detroit's 2014 2nd round pick

I'm not sure if Carmelo and Josh Smith are boys, but both are close with Rondo, I believe, so it stands to reason NY would see acquiring Smith as a means to convincing Melo to stay.

This deal also makes it (financially) harder for Rondo to sign with the Knicks in the summer of 2015, if Melo stays there.

I like all the assets we get (except Amare, of course), probably in the order I've listed them. Mitchell could surprise people -- a team that can afford to let him learn on the court can reap his talent. Use the 2nd on an international player to stash, if someone falls (ala Big Baby), or trade it.

[saltlover]

I can't see Detroit doing this.  It doesn't make them better, and it makes the Josh Smith signing look like a mistake.  Dumars will be unemployed if Detroit fails to make the playoffs.  Not the right deal for him.  He wants to trade Charlie V. and draft picks for Green, if I had to guess his interest in Green.  His desperation, however, makes him ripe to deal with.

[ssspence]

It doesn't make them better, and it makes the Josh Smith signing look like a mistake.  Dumars will be unemployed if Detroit fails to make the playoffs.

Everyone knows the Smith signing was a mistake -- Joe Dumars especially. The team is a sinking ship of poor fit and chemistry, and as you rightly point out, Dumars is done this summer if they don't turn things around... fast. They can't get back better players for Smith, because NY doesn't have a good package to offer.

I think DET would be the first to say yes to this deal. I also think this deal smells exactly like a Dolan deal -- Josh Smith is precisely the kind of player he likes to overrate.

[Lucky17]

I see the reasoning behind this, but I can't support the idea of consolidating three rotational players into Amare's "DNP-Useless" for next season for such small gains.

Yes, I understand we get out of Wallace's and Green's 2015/16 cap hits with this deal. I just think there's more to be gained from trading Green and Bass. I'd sooner package Green and Wallace for Detroit's expirings than take on Amare's golden anchor.

[ssspence]

Lucky17... but why would Detroit take Wallace in a Smith deal? And would they trade for both Green and Wallace -- even either -- and keep Smith? I doubt it.

I could see Boston requiring either Detroit's 2016 1st (instead of this year's 2nd) or NYK's 2018 1st to do the deal.

[saltlover]

It doesn't make them better, and it makes the Josh Smith signing look like a mistake.  Dumars will be unemployed if Detroit fails to make the playoffs.

Everyone knows the Smith signing was a mistake -- Joe Dumars especially. The team is a sinking ship of poor fit and chemistry, and as you rightly point out, Dumars is done this summer if they don't turn things around... fast. They can't get back better players for Smith, because NY doesn't have a good package to offer.

I think DET would be the first to say yes to this deal.

It's one thing to know something was a mistake -- it's another thing to admit to your bosses it was a $52 million mistake when they've pretty much told you that you're gone in April if you're not in the playoffs, and even making the playoffs is no guarantee.  I think the Pistons need to make the playoffs with Smith for Dumars to keep his job.  I don't see ownership keeping Dumars around to give out another big free agent contract, and hope he's able to trade it away again if it is yet again a mistake.

While I agree you're correct that Detroit needs to get rid of Smith, I don't think the internal politics of the organization will allow that to occur.  Dumars has stunk, but the owners have screwed up their future even more by making him a lame-duck.  Since their 2014 pick is largely unavailable, I think Danny should go for as many picks in the distant future as he can.  That team is going to be lottery bound for much of the decade -- I'd target their 2017 and 2019 picks.

[Lucky17]

Lucky17... but why would Detroit take Wallace in a Smith deal? And would they trade for both Green and Wallace -- even either -- and keep Smith? I doubt it.

I could see Boston requiring either Detroit's 2016 1st (instead of this year's 2nd) or NYK's 2018 1st to do the deal.

I think they'd keep Smith, and deal Monroe. Although probably not to Boston if Ainge is attaching Wallace to a Green acquisition by the Pistons. I doubt Ainge could command expirings and Monroe in exchange for the Wallace/Green package.

Perhaps Washington as a third team for Monroe.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Lucky17... but why would Detroit take Wallace in a Smith deal? And would they trade for both Green and Wallace -- even either -- and keep Smith? I doubt it.

I could see Boston requiring either Detroit's 2016 1st (instead of this year's 2nd) or NYK's 2018 1st to do the deal.

I think they'd keep Smith, and deal Monroe. Although probably not to Boston if Ainge is attaching Wallace to a Green acquisition by the Pistons. I doubt Ainge could command expirings and Monroe in exchange for the Wallace/Green package.

Perhaps Washington as a third team for Monroe.

Could you imagine Detroit starting Wallace / Smith / Drummond?  It would make Smith / Monroe / Drummond look like the Golden State Warriors

[Lucky17]

Lucky17... but why would Detroit take Wallace in a Smith deal? And would they trade for both Green and Wallace -- even either -- and keep Smith? I doubt it.

I could see Boston requiring either Detroit's 2016 1st (instead of this year's 2nd) or NYK's 2018 1st to do the deal.

I think they'd keep Smith, and deal Monroe. Although probably not to Boston if Ainge is attaching Wallace to a Green acquisition by the Pistons. I doubt Ainge could command expirings and Monroe in exchange for the Wallace/Green package.

Perhaps Washington as a third team for Monroe.

Could you imagine Detroit starting Wallace / Smith / Drummond?  It would make Smith / Monroe / Drummond look like the Golden State Warriors

Why would they start Wallace over Green?

Wallace would back up both forward slots as a 6th man/energy guy.

[jambr380]

This is a horrendous deal for Boston. Sometime in the last month Green has gone from a valuable asset to a Gerald Wallace clone, and his play does not warrant this negativity.

I still think Detroit made an excellent decision in signing Smith. Everybody knew that he wasn't a great fit, but they signed him without giving up any assets for him at all. The fact that we are saying they could have Green and Bass for him makes it a win for them because then it is essentially like they signed those two players without giving up any assets.

Just because Det hasn't found a deal they like in trading Smith or Monroe doesn't mean they didn't add a valuable asset to their roster this offseason, they just need to make a deal.

[ssspence]

It doesn't make them better, and it makes the Josh Smith signing look like a mistake.  Dumars will be unemployed if Detroit fails to make the playoffs.

Everyone knows the Smith signing was a mistake -- Joe Dumars especially. The team is a sinking ship of poor fit and chemistry, and as you rightly point out, Dumars is done this summer if they don't turn things around... fast. They can't get back better players for Smith, because NY doesn't have a good package to offer.

I think DET would be the first to say yes to this deal.

It's one thing to know something was a mistake -- it's another thing to admit to your bosses it was a $52 million mistake when they've pretty much told you that you're gone in April if you're not in the playoffs, and even making the playoffs is no guarantee.  I think the Pistons need to make the playoffs with Smith for Dumars to keep his job.  I don't see ownership keeping Dumars around to give out another big free agent contract, and hope he's able to trade it away again if it is yet again a mistake.

While I agree you're correct that Detroit needs to get rid of Smith, I don't think the internal politics of the organization will allow that to occur.  Dumars has stunk, but the owners have screwed up their future even more by making him a lame-duck.  Since their 2014 pick is largely unavailable, I think Danny should go for as many picks in the distant future as he can.  That team is going to be lottery bound for much of the decade -- I'd target their 2017 and 2019 picks.

I don't get this... you don't think Dumars would trade Smith for Green and Bass? Seems like a total dunk for them to me.

[saltlover]

It doesn't make them better, and it makes the Josh Smith signing look like a mistake.  Dumars will be unemployed if Detroit fails to make the playoffs.

Everyone knows the Smith signing was a mistake -- Joe Dumars especially. The team is a sinking ship of poor fit and chemistry, and as you rightly point out, Dumars is done this summer if they don't turn things around... fast. They can't get back better players for Smith, because NY doesn't have a good package to offer.

I think DET would be the first to say yes to this deal.

It's one thing to know something was a mistake -- it's another thing to admit to your bosses it was a $52 million mistake when they've pretty much told you that you're gone in April if you're not in the playoffs, and even making the playoffs is no guarantee.  I think the Pistons need to make the playoffs with Smith for Dumars to keep his job.  I don't see ownership keeping Dumars around to give out another big free agent contract, and hope he's able to trade it away again if it is yet again a mistake.

While I agree you're correct that Detroit needs to get rid of Smith, I don't think the internal politics of the organization will allow that to occur.  Dumars has stunk, but the owners have screwed up their future even more by making him a lame-duck.  Since their 2014 pick is largely unavailable, I think Danny should go for as many picks in the distant future as he can.  That team is going to be lottery bound for much of the decade -- I'd target their 2017 and 2019 picks.

I don't get this... you don't think Dumars would trade Smith for Green and Bass? Seems like a total dunk for them to me.

No, I don't.  I think doing so would look like he didn't have a long-term vision for how to improve the team, and he needs to sell ownership that he has one.  While Green and Bass are a probably upgrade, I don't think they're enough of an upgrade for him to hang his hat on.  If he got some All-Star for Smith, or a top 5 draft pick and cap relief, he could sell that as a vision.  This would be marginal, short-term improvement at best, and he'd be out of a job.

[ssspence]

No, I don't.  I think doing so would look like he didn't have a long-term vision for how to improve the team, and he needs to sell ownership that he has one.

This is where you lose me. He needs results, not a sell. If they squeak into the playoffs, and maybe even make a little notice, Dumars has a chance to keep his gig. If they don't, he's toast... vision or no vision.

To me, the only reason there's all this talk of trading Monroe is because they signed Smith to a bad contract to play out of position, and now they're stuck with him... at least til they can get him back to PF and improve his stock.

[saltlover]

No, I don't.  I think doing so would look like he didn't have a long-term vision for how to improve the team, and he needs to sell ownership that he has one.

This is where you lose me. He needs results, not a sell. If they squeak into the playoffs, and maybe even make a little notice, Dumars has a chance to keep his gig. If they don't, he's toast... vision or no vision.

To me, the only reason there's all this talk of trading Monroe is because they signed Smith to a bad contract to play out of position, and now they're stuck with him... at least til they can get him back to PF and improve his stock.

They've been talking about trading Monroe since before the season began, when they couldn't negotiate an extension with him.  I see talk of trading him as completely independent of the presence of Josh Smith.  Of course, the trio of Smith-Monroe-and-Drummond has not worked well, but that's not where their impetus to trade him has come from.  They think he's getting max-offer this season and won't want to match it.

From my understanding of the situation, the owners have demanded the playoffs, but that this alone may not be able to save Dumars.  Accordingly, I think Dumars needs to show that last offseason's acquisitions were successful.  I could be reading the situation wrong, but I feel trading Smith without getting something verifiably great in return will be the end of Dumars.  I think he'll happily trade draft picks and expirings, however.

[Lucky17]

To be honest, I think you guys are both right.

To me, Dumars SHOULD cut bait on Smith. It should come as no surprise that having two volume shooters on the roster would have an impact on Monroe's numbers this year, and trading the young big man when his stock is low to move Smith to his natural position seems more like compounding an error to me than correcting one.

But doing so would bring down a ton of criticism on Dumars' head from outside the organization. And possibly the fans, too.

I definitely think trading Smith for Bass and Green would improve the Pistons' chances at making the playoffs. Give Smith's shots to Monroe and Green, and bring in Bass to play next to either Monroe or Drummond, and things look much better to me on both sides of the ball in Detroit.