Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland

[bobbyv]

A year ago I would have agreed to a Rondo-Kyrie swap in a heart beat.  But in the last year, I've seen a regression in not only Kyrie's play, but also his maturity.  I'm becoming more and more convinced that Kyrie is not a player I want to give a max contract to on my team.  I envision him going to NYK eventually.

Could not disagree with the above more vehemently.

Irving's shooting is bouncing back, and he's grown other facets of his game. He's younger and healthier than Rondo - and significant doubts remain in my mind on exactly what we've got with this version of Rondo. The early returns are not at all encouraging.

I'd deal Rondo for Irving tomorrow.

What other facets of Irving's game have you seen growing? Because I'm still hearing about lackadaisical defense (at best) and mediocre playmaking. He's putting up empty stats on a bad team. He's not a franchise player. All he can do is score, and those guys don't turn out to be franchise players.

The fact is, Kyrie Irving is a part of the problem in Cleveland.

[SHAQATTACK]

He'll look good in Purple and Gold .

[BballTim]

  Rookie Kyrie >> current Kyrie.

Not really. Current Kyrie is a better passer and defender. He was in a shooting slump at the beginning of the year, but he has brought his efficiency back up lately.

  Not tremendously better at either, and I don't think he's the same scorer. His calling card was great clutch scoring and that's not the same. People were expecting him to be challenging CP for the top pg honors by now, that's not close to being the case.

[BballTim]

A year ago I would have agreed to a Rondo-Kyrie swap in a heart beat.  But in the last year, I've seen a regression in not only Kyrie's play, but also his maturity.  I'm becoming more and more convinced that Kyrie is not a player I want to give a max contract to on my team.  I envision him going to NYK eventually.

Could not disagree with the above more vehemently.

Irving's shooting is bouncing back, and he's grown other facets of his game. He's younger and healthier than Rondo - and significant doubts remain in my mind on exactly what we've got with this version of Rondo. The early returns are not at all encouraging.

I'd deal Rondo for Irving tomorrow.

  Irving's TS% was 49% in November, 57% in December and 52% in January. It's not bouncing back, it's settling. It's lower than it was last year, which is lower than it was the year before. Also, his eFG% in clutch situations was 58% in 2012, 51% last year and it's 42% this year. The growth in other parts of his game has been modest. It hasn't offset the decline in his best skill. I think most people who were expecting big things from the Cavs were looking for better play from Irving. They haven't gotten it.

[Roy H.]

A year ago I would have agreed to a Rondo-Kyrie swap in a heart beat.  But in the last year, I've seen a regression in not only Kyrie's play, but also his maturity.  I'm becoming more and more convinced that Kyrie is not a player I want to give a max contract to on my team.  I envision him going to NYK eventually.

Could not disagree with the above more vehemently.

Irving's shooting is bouncing back, and he's grown other facets of his game. He's younger and healthier than Rondo - and significant doubts remain in my mind on exactly what we've got with this version of Rondo. The early returns are not at all encouraging.

I'd deal Rondo for Irving tomorrow.

  Irving's TS% was 49% in November, 57% in December and 52% in January. It's not bouncing back, it's settling. It's lower than it was last year, which is lower than it was the year before. Also, his eFG% in clutch situations was 58% in 2012, 51% last year and it's 42% this year. The growth in other parts of his game has been modest. It hasn't offset the decline in his best skill. I think most people who were expecting big things from the Cavs were looking for better play from Irving. They haven't gotten it.

An eFG% of 58% in clutch situations is unsustainable for anybody.  Last season, he once again led the league in clutch scoring (the second year in a row he did so), and his FG% was near the top of those in the top-10 in clutch scoring.

[gpap]

A year ago I would have agreed to a Rondo-Kyrie swap in a heart beat.  But in the last year, I've seen a regression in not only Kyrie's play, but also his maturity.  I'm becoming more and more convinced that Kyrie is not a player I want to give a max contract to on my team.  I envision him going to NYK eventually.

Could not disagree with the above more vehemently.

Irving's shooting is bouncing back, and he's grown other facets of his game. He's younger and healthier than Rondo - and significant doubts remain in my mind on exactly what we've got with this version of Rondo. The early returns are not at all encouraging.

I'd deal Rondo for Irving tomorrow.

I would've dealt Rondo for Irving yesterday, brought Rondo to the airport, picked Irving up and been home in time for Jeopardy.

[BballTim]

A year ago I would have agreed to a Rondo-Kyrie swap in a heart beat.  But in the last year, I've seen a regression in not only Kyrie's play, but also his maturity.  I'm becoming more and more convinced that Kyrie is not a player I want to give a max contract to on my team.  I envision him going to NYK eventually.

Could not disagree with the above more vehemently.

Irving's shooting is bouncing back, and he's grown other facets of his game. He's younger and healthier than Rondo - and significant doubts remain in my mind on exactly what we've got with this version of Rondo. The early returns are not at all encouraging.

I'd deal Rondo for Irving tomorrow.

  Irving's TS% was 49% in November, 57% in December and 52% in January. It's not bouncing back, it's settling. It's lower than it was last year, which is lower than it was the year before. Also, his eFG% in clutch situations was 58% in 2012, 51% last year and it's 42% this year. The growth in other parts of his game has been modest. It hasn't offset the decline in his best skill. I think most people who were expecting big things from the Cavs were looking for better play from Irving. They haven't gotten it.

An eFG% of 58% in clutch situations is unsustainable for anybody.  Last season, he once again led the league in clutch scoring (the second year in a row he did so), and his FG% was near the top of those in the top-10 in clutch scoring.

  Apparently that was unsustainable as well, this year's FG% would be 9th on that top 10 list. And were his non-clutch percentages unsustainable as well? If you watched him his rookie year, the thing that set him apart from other scoring pgs was his great shooting, especially in the clutch. If you look at his points per FGA, in 2012 he score 38 points in 33 shots. In 2013 it was 39 points in 39 shots. Now it's 32 points in 38 shots. His TS%, Reb%, Ast% are all down from his rookie year, although he does turn the ball over less often. The trends are fairly worrisome.

[gpap]

A year ago I would have agreed to a Rondo-Kyrie swap in a heart beat.  But in the last year, I've seen a regression in not only Kyrie's play, but also his maturity.  I'm becoming more and more convinced that Kyrie is not a player I want to give a max contract to on my team.  I envision him going to NYK eventually.

Could not disagree with the above more vehemently.

Irving's shooting is bouncing back, and he's grown other facets of his game. He's younger and healthier than Rondo - and significant doubts remain in my mind on exactly what we've got with this version of Rondo. The early returns are not at all encouraging.

I'd deal Rondo for Irving tomorrow.

What other facets of Irving's game have you seen growing? Because I'm still hearing about lackadaisical defense (at best) and mediocre playmaking. He's putting up empty stats on a bad team. He's not a franchise player. All he can do is score, and those guys don't turn out to be franchise players.

The fact is, Kyrie Irving is a part of the problem in Cleveland.

They don't? When did scoring become so unimportant?

[Vox_Populi]

  Rookie Kyrie >> current Kyrie.

Not really. Current Kyrie is a better passer and defender. He was in a shooting slump at the beginning of the year, but he has brought his efficiency back up lately.

Funny, if you look at 82games's numbers, they're pretty similar players.

Yup, he's been almost the same player.

[BballTim]

  Rookie Kyrie >> current Kyrie.

Not really. Current Kyrie is a better passer and defender. He was in a shooting slump at the beginning of the year, but he has brought his efficiency back up lately.

Funny, if you look at 82games's numbers, they're pretty similar players.

Yup, he's been almost the same player.

  The same player minus the phenomenal clutch shooting.

[Snakehead]

Cleveland's management and ownership is absolutely awful.  I don't blame any player for leaving Cleveland and I feel bad for the fans.

[Roy H.]

Cleveland's management and ownership is absolutely awful.  I don't blame any player for leaving Cleveland and I feel bad for the fans.

Yeah.  I've watched a fair bit of Cleveland basketball this year, and it's just ugly.  They have no offensive system, and their defense stinks.  It starts at the top.

[LooseCannon]

A year ago I would have agreed to a Rondo-Kyrie swap in a heart beat.  But in the last year, I've seen a regression in not only Kyrie's play, but also his maturity.  I'm becoming more and more convinced that Kyrie is not a player I want to give a max contract to on my team.  I envision him going to NYK eventually.

Could not disagree with the above more vehemently.

Irving's shooting is bouncing back, and he's grown other facets of his game. He's younger and healthier than Rondo - and significant doubts remain in my mind on exactly what we've got with this version of Rondo. The early returns are not at all encouraging.

I'd deal Rondo for Irving tomorrow.

What other facets of Irving's game have you seen growing? Because I'm still hearing about lackadaisical defense (at best) and mediocre playmaking. He's putting up empty stats on a bad team. He's not a franchise player. All he can do is score, and those guys don't turn out to be franchise players.

The fact is, Kyrie Irving is a part of the problem in Cleveland.

They don't? When did scoring become so unimportant?

Some scorers are franchise players because they are good at scoring.  Some scorers are not franchise players because their scoring amounts to taking shots away from their teammates without being that much better at putting the ball in the hoop.

[Moranis]

Cleveland has a lot of young talent, but they are almost all immature (certainly Irving and Waiters).  They need to make some moves (like the Deng trade) to bring in some veterans for some of the young guys or draft picks.  They also need a good interior scorer as Thompson just isn't good enough to carry the load offensively down low.  They need a David West type player, cagey veteran interior scorer added to a young team to help them mature.   

[indeedproceed]

Cleveland has a lot of young talent, but they are almost all immature (certainly Irving and Waiters).  They need to make some moves (like the Deng trade) to bring in some veterans for some of the young guys or draft picks.  They also need a good interior scorer as Thompson just isn't good enough to carry the load offensively down low.  They need a David West type player, cagey veteran interior scorer added to a young team to help them mature.

Tristan Thompson is I think one of the biggest losers here. He gets at best mention as an afterthought. But he's a hustle monster and very athletic, with all the tools to be a very good defender one day. If he played with Rondo or Paul or even Nash, Conley, or Lowry, he'd get 15 a night and be shooting 55% from the floor. But he plays with Waiters and Irving.