Author Topic: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland  (Read 14917 times)

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Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2014, 03:18:18 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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yeah, looks like cleveland sucks - and they won the lottery what 3 times in the last 10 years or so? lbj, kyrie, bennet i think right? all # 1 overall picks

what does that say for our current plan?
little scary.

Nothing. We have Danny Ainge, not Chris Grant.
It does show that bottoming out doesn't mean all that much even if you have good lottery luck if you blow your picks on the wrong players.

Every year a few of the top guys are relative busts sadly.

Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2014, 03:19:52 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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He's lazy on D and in transition that makes his wanting to leave ring hollow to me. He's a large part of the problem, for all the awesomeness of his crossover, isos, and shooting he's not playing winning basketball himself.

He was an all-star too soon, before he deserved it. I do think he Cleveland was winning he'd be happy there, but a large part of that is on him.
From the DKC thread, sums up my thoughts on this.

Anyways the other issue is that I doubt Kyrie plays for the QO. So he's going to be stuck in Cleveland for a while.
I'm in line with this.  I think Kyrie is overrated-->Melo of the PG position.  good offense, defense is what he expects everyone else to play.

was surprised to see a poster mention above how it was a dream when they've made a number of posts praising defensive-minded players.  Wouldn't be my dream to swap Rondo for Kyrie unless Kyrie commits to becoming a complete player on both sides of the ball.

Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2014, 03:22:56 PM »

Offline action781

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A year ago I would have agreed to a Rondo-Kyrie swap in a heart beat.  But in the last year, I've seen a regression in not only Kyrie's play, but also his maturity.  I'm becoming more and more convinced that Kyrie is not a player I want to give a max contract to on my team.  I envision him going to NYK eventually.
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Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2014, 03:23:18 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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yeah, looks like cleveland sucks - and they won the lottery what 3 times in the last 10 years or so? lbj, kyrie, bennet i think right? all # 1 overall picks

what does that say for our current plan?
little scary.

Nothing. We have Danny Ainge, not Chris Grant.
It does show that bottoming out doesn't mean all that much even if you have good lottery luck if you blow your picks on the wrong players.

Every year a few of the top guys are relative busts sadly.
also shows that winning the lottery in an 'off year' like last year isn't necessarily a great thing.  sometimes that draft pick is better used as a trade piece for an all-star rather than actually making the pick.  I'm sure Cle could have landed an all-star by trading that pick and they'd be much better off.  Same goes for the Thompson and Waiters picks. 

Cleveland (Stepien) was the poster child for recklessly trading away draft picks but as of late, their the poster child of a team that should have been trading them for proven talent to combine with Kyrie

Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2014, 03:25:29 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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yeah, looks like cleveland sucks - and they won the lottery what 3 times in the last 10 years or so? lbj, kyrie, bennet i think right? all # 1 overall picks

what does that say for our current plan?
little scary.

Nothing. We have Danny Ainge, not Chris Grant.
It does show that bottoming out doesn't mean all that much even if you have good lottery luck if you blow your picks on the wrong players.

Every year a few of the top guys are relative busts sadly.
also shows that winning the lottery in an 'off year' like last year isn't necessarily a great thing.  sometimes that draft pick is better used as a trade piece for an all-star rather than actually making the pick.  I'm sure Cle could have landed an all-star by trading that pick and they'd be much better off.  Same goes for the Thompson and Waiters picks. 

Cleveland (Stepien) was the poster child for recklessly trading away draft picks but as of late, their the poster child of a team that should have been trading them for proven talent to combine with Kyrie
I disagree with you on this. If Cleveland could have gotten an impat player with that pick they would have traded it, they were desperately working the phones with that pick and weren't getting any good offers.

Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2014, 03:26:21 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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yeah, looks like cleveland sucks - and they won the lottery what 3 times in the last 10 years or so? lbj, kyrie, bennet i think right? all # 1 overall picks

what does that say for our current plan?
little scary.

Nothing. We have Danny Ainge, not Chris Grant.
It does show that bottoming out doesn't mean all that much even if you have good lottery luck if you blow your picks on the wrong players.

Every year a few of the top guys are relative busts sadly.

I think we already knew that - and from a much larger sample than this one case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we are guaranteed to get a franchise player. It's entirely possible that even a better-than-average drafter like Ainge could blow a pick in this draft. He's had both successes and failures before, albeit with a pretty high overall success rate compared to any GM not named Buford.

I'm just saying that the Chris Grant case tells us nothing about the probabilities associated with our current strategy.

Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2014, 03:27:10 PM »

Offline BigAlTheFuture

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Here's what Cleveland's starting 5 could have looked like if they drafted better.

Irving
Oladipo
Kawhi Leonard
Sullinger
Drummond

That would've been a scary team.
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Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2014, 03:29:44 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  Rookie Kyrie >> current Kyrie.

Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2014, 03:30:37 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Here's what Cleveland's starting 5 could have looked like if they drafted better.

Irving
Oladipo
Kawhi Leonard
Sullinger
Drummond

That would've been a scary team.
I think you could do this for virtually any team.

Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2014, 03:35:31 PM »

Offline action781

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Cleveland are still in a pretty good position to keep Kyrie Irving. They shouldn't panic themselves into making a bunch of win-now moves.

That would be the worst thing they could do.

Stay bad. Get another good draft pick. Use their cap space well in the summer. Maybe look to trade T.Thompson and/or D.Waiters at that point. But for now - sit still and be patient.

Don't throw youth/picks for mediocre veterans like so many impatient teams do when their star starts throwing hissy fits.

I agree with that to some extent.  I think some of their players they may want to cash in on any perceived value they still have if Cleveland finds the player to not be a good fit.

Example:  Dion Waiters.  I think he has some value because he is still young and was a high draft pick.  I don't expect him to become an all-star.  Furthermore, I agree with the reports that he's not improved much due to Kyrie being a bad influence on him.  I'd try to trade him for a shooter/defender that fits better alongside Kyrie.  A young player would be great, but a player who has been in the league long enough to not be as impressionable as Waiters wouldn't be bad either.  I'm thinking guys like JJ Redick, Arron Afflalo, Danny Green, or maybe even Gordon Hayward would be good players for Cleveland to target right now.  If Waiters + a lottery protected 1st + cap filler could return one of those players or a player like them, I think Cleveland should do that.  I'd like to see them resign Deng as well, so long as its a reasonable contract.

So, don't throw picks and $ at mediocre veterans, but I would throw them at younger players who could be part of a long term strategy, even if they aren't players filled with sky-high potential.
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Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2014, 03:42:33 PM »

Online Roy H.

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  Rookie Kyrie >> current Kyrie.

Not really. Current Kyrie is a better passer and defender. He was in a shooting slump at the beginning of the year, but he has brought his efficiency back up lately.


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Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2014, 03:50:05 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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  Rookie Kyrie >> current Kyrie.

Not really. Current Kyrie is a better passer and defender. He was in a shooting slump at the beginning of the year, but he has brought his efficiency back up lately.

Funny, if you look at 82games's numbers, they're pretty similar players.
This year: http://www.82games.com/1314/13CLE1.HTM#bypos
Rookie season: http://www.82games.com/1112/11CLE1.HTM#bypos

This year: http://www.82games.com/1314/13CLE1.HTM#onoff
Rookie Season http://www.82games.com/1112/11CLE1.HTM#onoff

Both cases he outscored his counterparts usually, but they scored well above league average. Both cases the defense is considerably better with him off the court, and in both cases whether he's on the court or off it, Cleveland still sucks.

I did not expect that.

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Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2014, 03:58:58 PM »

Online Donoghus

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  Rookie Kyrie >> current Kyrie.

Not really. Current Kyrie is a better passer and defender. He was in a shooting slump at the beginning of the year, but he has brought his efficiency back up lately.

Funny, if you look at 82games's numbers, they're pretty similar players.
This year: http://www.82games.com/1314/13CLE1.HTM#bypos
Rookie season: http://www.82games.com/1112/11CLE1.HTM#bypos

This year: http://www.82games.com/1314/13CLE1.HTM#onoff
Rookie Season http://www.82games.com/1112/11CLE1.HTM#onoff

Both cases he outscored his counterparts usually, but they scored well above league average. Both cases the defense is considerably better with him off the court, and in both cases whether he's on the court or off it, Cleveland still sucks.

I did not expect that.

I expected more maturation of Irving's game by this point given where he was at his rookie year.  Sky was the limit, his rookie year.


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Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2014, 04:00:15 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Still is the limit, he's only 21.

Re: Kyrie Irving wants to leave Cleveland
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2014, 04:04:02 PM »

Offline BigAlTheFuture

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At this point in their careers, would you guys rather have Kyrie or Wall? I'd take Wall personally. He's the superior playmaker, defender, athlete. The only area I would give Irving the advantage in is probably scoring and shooting.
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