Author Topic: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?  (Read 9928 times)

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Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2014, 11:43:39 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Who say  nada

Me.   :)


Lotto pic for Rondo or no go

Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2014, 12:33:40 PM »

Offline ssspence

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By my math, after this deal and after taking all three 2014 rounders (at approx. $3.5mil, $1.5mil and $1mil for the 2014-2015 season, respectively), the Cs would be at $40.2mil in total salary before signing Avery Bradley. The 2014-2015 salary cap is projected at $62.1mil.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/6/4/4394314/projected-nba-salary-cap-and-tax-threshold-established

Nice.
Mike

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Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2014, 02:20:45 PM »

Offline colincb

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BOS says no.

Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2014, 02:37:15 PM »

Offline Jailan34

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Pretty nice trade OP, I like it, its very realistic. Jeff Green won't net us much more than a late 1st anyway.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2014, 02:37:46 PM »

Offline Yb2

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I'd ask for MKG and at the very least, the right to swap the BKN and DET pix. I wouldn't try to go after Melo with the cap space, unless he is on board with team play and take a pay cut. We should try to get Pau if he's also willing to take a pay cut.
Rondo
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Pau

Pressey
AB (team friendly contract)
Wallace
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2014 pix

One can dream, but it is feasible if the stars align

Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2014, 03:05:38 PM »

Offline ssspence

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I'd ask for MKG and at the very least, the right to swap the BKN and DET pix.

Some have suggested asking for the Pistons pick. The way the Pistons are going, the Cats aren't going to get that pick.

But, I would rather ask for a stronger pick -- say the worse of the Cats and Pistons 2014 picks -- than push for MKG.

That said, I don't think the Cs would be in a position of leverage here. Neither Green nor Bass has strong trade value. 

Mike

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Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2014, 03:13:44 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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just a bad deal for the C's.  nothing of real value coming back for 2 productive players that can start for a decent team. 

what I don't see here is a reason to make this bad of a deal.  none.  The C's would still be saddled with Wallace, the team would otherwise be devoid of any good vet influence on the incoming youth except for Rondo, Gordon is just an expiring deal with no reason to resign him even to a smaller deal, Taylor is having health issues and the Portland pick is so late it might as well be a second rounder but the reality is it's worse than a second rounder since that late first is a guaranteed contract

Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2014, 04:29:22 PM »

Offline hardlyyardley

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Hey SSSpence.....take it easy on me I know your parents.....besides Elon lost to UMass this week

Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2014, 04:30:04 PM »

Offline action781

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I've thought for a while about another Charlotte - Boston trade centered around Gerald Wallace plus pick(s) for Ben Gordon. I'd be a big fan of something like that.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
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Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2014, 04:31:56 PM »

Offline Depalma2002

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I'd ask for MKG and at the very least, the right to swap the BKN and DET pix.

Some have suggested asking for the Pistons pick. The way the Pistons are going, the Cats aren't going to get that pick.

But, I would rather ask for a stronger pick -- say the worse of the Cats and Pistons 2014 picks -- than push for MKG.

That said, I don't think the Cs would be in a position of leverage here. Neither Green nor Bass has strong trade value.

Can't get the worst of the Cats and Pistons picks because Charlotte doesn't own their own pick.

If the Pistons continue on a downward trend, then it becomes a 2015 pick and the protection drops to 1-8. If it is still not conveyed, then it is unprotected in 2016.

I think that pick gets more valuable if Detroit narrowly gets to keep it this year, so that doesn't deter me at all.

Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2014, 04:50:27 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Can't get the worst of the Cats and Pistons picks because Charlotte doesn't own their own pick.


Thanks for pointing that out. 
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2014, 05:07:51 PM »

Offline Nerf DPOY

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The way it looks now it's about 50/50 we'd get Detroit's pick this year, but when we'd get the pick isn't really a deal breaker from my POV. The incentive on our end is clearing Green and Bass's salaries, which if it enables us to sign Melo I'd jump at.

But if we're gonna be players for Melo this summer, it'd make sense to me to trade our pick(s) with Wallace's contract to make Boston a more enticing destination. Might as well go all the way on this. Rondo, Melo, and a 20-year old Embiid or Wiggins seems incongruous to me.

Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2014, 05:12:04 PM »

Offline ssspence

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just a bad deal for the C's.  nothing of real value coming back for 2 productive players that can start for a decent team. 

what I don't see here is a reason to make this bad of a deal.  none.  The C's would still be saddled with Wallace, the team would otherwise be devoid of any good vet influence on the incoming youth except for Rondo, Gordon is just an expiring deal with no reason to resign him even to a smaller deal, Taylor is having health issues and the Portland pick is so late it might as well be a second rounder but the reality is it's worse than a second rounder since that late first is a guaranteed contract

what i don't see here is an understanding of assets.

~ that Gordon is expiring is the reason to trade for him.

~ that a first round pick (in a deep draft) is locked in at cheap money is not a negative, assuming you even keep the pick instead of packaging it in a deal.

~ veteran influence? what about Hump, Anthony, Wallace, Rondo? Bass is just learning the word "pass" and Green shows up ready to play about once a week. because they're older doesn't make them leaders.

~ because we're "saddled" with Wallace's contract, we shouldn't trade other overpriced veterans? then why did Ainge trade Lee for nothing? as I already pointed out, the Cs would be $20MM+ below the salary cap this summer after this deal... which means they wouldn't be saddled at all.

maybe you just prefer to keep these mediocre players. understandable. if not, i seriously doubt the Cs can get more than a low first round pick for either, especially if they get salary relief -- which is exactly what they get here for each.

and you obviously underestimate what Ainge could do with the combination of tons of cap space and tons of picks.

Mike

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Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2014, 06:51:33 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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just a bad deal for the C's.  nothing of real value coming back for 2 productive players that can start for a decent team. 

what I don't see here is a reason to make this bad of a deal.  none.  The C's would still be saddled with Wallace, the team would otherwise be devoid of any good vet influence on the incoming youth except for Rondo, Gordon is just an expiring deal with no reason to resign him even to a smaller deal, Taylor is having health issues and the Portland pick is so late it might as well be a second rounder but the reality is it's worse than a second rounder since that late first is a guaranteed contract

what i don't see here is an understanding of assets.

~ that Gordon is expiring is the reason to trade for him.
Hump is expiring, Bogans is expiring.  having cap space doesn't mean a lot unless you're going after a big FA and there isn't one next year worth chasing that would come here in the middle of the youth movement
~ that a first round pick (in a deep draft) is locked in at cheap money is not a negative, assuming you even keep the pick instead of packaging it in a deal.
That late in the draft is a crapshoot and you're locked in for a few years whereas a second round pick (just a few slots later) is about the same quality of player that does not have the cost of a guaranteed deal
~ veteran influence? what about Hump, Anthony, Wallace, Rondo? Bass is just learning the word "pass" and Green shows up ready to play about once a week. because they're older doesn't make them leaders.
Hump is an expiring deal and unlikely to return to a rebuilding team.  Anthony may be back, may be bought out.  Wallace -- is that what you consider a veteran leader?  so far he's more mouth than anything
~ because we're "saddled" with Wallace's contract, we shouldn't trade other overpriced veterans? then why did Ainge trade Lee for nothing? as I already pointed out, the Cs would be $20MM+ below the salary cap this summer after this deal… which means they wouldn't be saddled at all.
I'm fine with trading them, but not for that piddly return.  cap space is overrated if you don't have a design for using it
maybe you just prefer to keep these mediocre players. understandable. if not, i seriously doubt the Cs can get more than a low first round pick for either, especially if they get salary relief -- which is exactly what they get here for each.
A low first is fine, but better than #28.  18-24 would be fine.  I know 24 is only 4 spots higher but depending on the rest of the package, that may be enough of an improvement in draft position
and you obviously underestimate what Ainge could do with the combination of tons of cap space and tons of picks.
Picks - I never underestimate Danny.  Cap space - I have serious doubts.  His drafting success is one of the best in the league, particularly for the positioning he's had.  His trades and especially his FA signings have usually been crappy.  If he had a better track record with his trades/free agents, I'd consider cap space a bigger deal

Re: Who says 'no'? Charlotte or Boston?
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2014, 07:20:03 PM »

Offline ManUp

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I'd absolutely trade Green and Bass for expiring contracts and Detroit's pick. I believe in getting the building blocks before placing the complementary pieces. If we're serious about building around Rondo, who's not getting younger, free agency is how have to do it.

If Melo leaves New York we could try to steal Chandler from them for Wallace and the pick we'd get in this trade.