Author Topic: Luol Deng to CLE  (Read 19379 times)

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Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2014, 07:43:07 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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That Sacramento pick could be a good get for Chicago, but what happens if the Kings pick in the top 12, does it roll over for another year?

Quote
Sacramento's 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-12 in 2014, 1-10 in 2015, 1-10 in 2016 or 1-10 in 2017; if Sacramento has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Cleveland by 2017, then Sacramento will instead convey its 2017 2nd round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 56-60 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Cleveland will be extinguished) [Cleveland-Sacramento, 6/30/2011]

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So, in essence, Cleveland is betting against Sacramento becoming a playoff team (or a near playoff miss) in the next four years.


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Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2014, 07:46:10 AM »

Offline saltlover

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This is a steal for Chi, imo. If they release Bynum, they open up salary and jumpstart their rebuild. Deng has been gone for a couple years now, it was only a matter of time. Same with Boozer. And Rose is far from a guarantee. I like it for them. And no way Thibs is gone... how is their mediocrity his fault? Dude is a top-notch coach.

Respectfully disagree, they do not need to rebuild.

Deng, Jimmy Butler, Rose and Noah is a very solid core. They have Taj Gibson as well if they resign him.  They will eventually have Charlotte's pick the latest would be 2016. Boozer expires at 2015. They have a solid core, good coach and some solid assets to build a team around.

If they kept those four, and Rose is healthy, you're looking at a contender. The only reason IMO Chicago is doing this is because Jerry Reinsdorf is cheap.

Edit: Forgot that they have Nikola Mirotic too, who's a solid young prospect. See, they are loaded, and don't need a rebuild. Management just don't want to pay their players.

Without making some salary room next year, they probably weren't going to be able to bring over Mirotic, who has a very large (~$6 million) buyout, most of which would count against the cap.  It was questionable whether or not they'd be able to sign him for the MLE -- now they'll certainly be able to bring him in.  Management couldn't pay Mirotic and Boozer and Deng, and not just due to luxury tax issues, but due to the fact Mirotic could only be signed with cap space or an exception, and Chicago wasn't likely to have an exception large enough to lure him overseas.  I don't love the deal for Chicago, but if they felt they weren't going to be able to keep Deng for a price that would work, and with his injury history, I think 3 years/$30 million was a fair price, then might as well get something for him now while taking yourself out of the luxury tax at the same time, since with Rose out, you're not winning.

Also, Chicago currently has two draft picks in this year, not counting the Sacto pick.  The small forward position is loaded, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find a long-term replacement for Deng (and they may already have one in Tony Snell).

Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2014, 07:57:39 AM »

Offline Moranis

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They'll only have 10 million in space this summer after waiving boozer. They'll need to make another move to get Melo, or sign and trade for him which is dicey with Dolan.

Don't like this move for the Cavs. They need more talent. Waiters, Thompson, and Bennett don't look like great pieces around Irving, Deng is just a high level role player.
I like the trade a lot for Cleveland.  I think Deng is the type of player that team needs.  He is a solid 2/3 option for a team and the Cavs need that role badly.  He will allow everyone else to shift down a role, which should improve the overall team flow i.e. Waiters becomes the 3rd option, Thompson the 4th option, etc.  Gee now moves to the bench to provide a boost to the second unit. 
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Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2014, 08:00:05 AM »

Offline Moranis

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That Sacramento pick could be a good get for Chicago, but what happens if the Kings pick in the top 12, does it roll over for another year?

Quote
Sacramento's 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-12 in 2014, 1-10 in 2015, 1-10 in 2016 or 1-10 in 2017; if Sacramento has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Cleveland by 2017, then Sacramento will instead convey its 2017 2nd round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 56-60 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Cleveland will be extinguished) [Cleveland-Sacramento, 6/30/2011]

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So, in essence, Cleveland is betting against Sacramento becoming a playoff team (or a near playoff miss) in the next four years.
I don't think they are betting that at all.  I just think with the protections on the pick they think Deng is worth it i.e. a pick outside of the top ten, which is solid value for Deng.  And by tying the pick to Sacramento it doesn't matter what Cleveland itself does.  Overall I think it is a very good trade for Cleveland.
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Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2014, 08:27:36 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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They'll only have 10 million in space this summer after waiving boozer. They'll need to make another move to get Melo, or sign and trade for him which is dicey with Dolan.

Don't like this move for the Cavs. They need more talent. Waiters, Thompson, and Bennett don't look like great pieces around Irving, Deng is just a high level role player.
I like the trade a lot for Cleveland.  I think Deng is the type of player that team needs.  He is a solid 2/3 option for a team and the Cavs need that role badly.  He will allow everyone else to shift down a role, which should improve the overall team flow i.e. Waiters becomes the 3rd option, Thompson the 4th option, etc.  Gee now moves to the bench to provide a boost to the second unit.

Great trade indeed. I've always loved Deng. He is just a solid starter that can put teams into contention with the right mix. A lineup of Irving, Waiters, Deng, Thompson, Varejo with Jack and Gee off the bench is definitely good enough to slide up to the three spot in the east...Now going up against Miami and Indy? They'll need some more fire power for that. But still a solid accusation none the less.

Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2014, 08:33:52 AM »

Offline Moranis

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They'll only have 10 million in space this summer after waiving boozer. They'll need to make another move to get Melo, or sign and trade for him which is dicey with Dolan.

Don't like this move for the Cavs. They need more talent. Waiters, Thompson, and Bennett don't look like great pieces around Irving, Deng is just a high level role player.
I like the trade a lot for Cleveland.  I think Deng is the type of player that team needs.  He is a solid 2/3 option for a team and the Cavs need that role badly.  He will allow everyone else to shift down a role, which should improve the overall team flow i.e. Waiters becomes the 3rd option, Thompson the 4th option, etc.  Gee now moves to the bench to provide a boost to the second unit.

Great trade indeed. I've always loved Deng. He is just a solid starter that can put teams into contention with the right mix. A lineup of Irving, Waiters, Deng, Thompson, Varejo with Jack and Gee off the bench is definitely good enough to slide up to the three spot in the east...Now going up against Miami and Indy? They'll need some more fire power for that. But still a solid accusation none the less.
and they didn't give up anyone of value and a weak 1st rounder and some 2nd rounders.  Absolute steal for Cleveland even if Deng is just one and done, Cleveland had to go for it this year given the years of crap since Lebron left and the horridness that is the East.  This should get them solidly into the playoffs with a real shot at the 3 seed if they can stay healthy.
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Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2014, 08:45:29 AM »

Offline BballTim

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They'll only have 10 million in space this summer after waiving boozer. They'll need to make another move to get Melo, or sign and trade for him which is dicey with Dolan.

Don't like this move for the Cavs. They need more talent. Waiters, Thompson, and Bennett don't look like great pieces around Irving, Deng is just a high level role player.
I like the trade a lot for Cleveland.  I think Deng is the type of player that team needs.  He is a solid 2/3 option for a team and the Cavs need that role badly.  He will allow everyone else to shift down a role, which should improve the overall team flow i.e. Waiters becomes the 3rd option, Thompson the 4th option, etc.  Gee now moves to the bench to provide a boost to the second unit.

Great trade indeed. I've always loved Deng. He is just a solid starter that can put teams into contention with the right mix. A lineup of Irving, Waiters, Deng, Thompson, Varejo with Jack and Gee off the bench is definitely good enough to slide up to the three spot in the east...Now going up against Miami and Indy? They'll need some more fire power for that. But still a solid accusation none the less.
and they didn't give up anyone of value and a weak 1st rounder and some 2nd rounders.  Absolute steal for Cleveland even if Deng is just one and done, Cleveland had to go for it this year given the years of crap since Lebron left and the horridness that is the East.  This should get them solidly into the playoffs with a real shot at the 3 seed if they can stay healthy.

  They'd need to win about 63% of their games (win on the level of the Suns or Rockets this year) just to get to .500 ball by the end of the season. Right now they're on a 26-27 win pace, to get to .500 they'll have to play on a 50+ win pace. I wouldn't expect Deng to make that much of a difference, and even if he did a .500 record probably won't be in the running for the 3rd seed.

Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2014, 08:48:59 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I think making a playoff run is a big mistake. They haven't hit with a pick since Irving, they needed another piece of talent to come in to their team to change their horizon.

Deng is good enough to push them out of the elite prospects (should be to the playoffs but Cleveland has under performed for two straight years for me so I'm not counting on anything)

Roster make up wise this does fix their biggest positional need, their SFs have been abysmal.

Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2014, 08:50:31 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Good trade by Chicago. They needed to start looking forward a few years down the line past this current Luol Deng + Carlos Boozer supporting cast for Joakim Noah and Derrick Rose. Picked up a couple of draft picks for a player they were not, and should not, have resigned in the summer.

I don't really like it for Cleveland. Too much too soon. This impatience in rebuilding could cost them further down the line. A terrific short term move however.

Yeah, agree with everything that you said. Felt like Cleveland rushed it a bit. Even though the pick is heavily protected, I think that they could have been better off if they went in another direction.

I think they're desperate to keep Kyrie in Cleveland, and want to get him some legit help.
Which is a mistake, you can't start the short term moves cycle. Not when you're a 20-25 win team.

If Kryie refuses a max rookie deal extension he'd be the first to do so. So they'd have another 4 years even if he got the traditional max with an opt out of the last year.

Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2014, 09:15:50 AM »

Offline saltlover

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They'll only have 10 million in space this summer after waiving boozer. They'll need to make another move to get Melo, or sign and trade for him which is dicey with Dolan.

Don't like this move for the Cavs. They need more talent. Waiters, Thompson, and Bennett don't look like great pieces around Irving, Deng is just a high level role player.
I like the trade a lot for Cleveland.  I think Deng is the type of player that team needs.  He is a solid 2/3 option for a team and the Cavs need that role badly.  He will allow everyone else to shift down a role, which should improve the overall team flow i.e. Waiters becomes the 3rd option, Thompson the 4th option, etc.  Gee now moves to the bench to provide a boost to the second unit.

Great trade indeed. I've always loved Deng. He is just a solid starter that can put teams into contention with the right mix. A lineup of Irving, Waiters, Deng, Thompson, Varejo with Jack and Gee off the bench is definitely good enough to slide up to the three spot in the east...Now going up against Miami and Indy? They'll need some more fire power for that. But still a solid accusation none the less.
and they didn't give up anyone of value and a weak 1st rounder and some 2nd rounders.  Absolute steal for Cleveland even if Deng is just one and done, Cleveland had to go for it this year given the years of crap since Lebron left and the horridness that is the East.  This should get them solidly into the playoffs with a real shot at the 3 seed if they can stay healthy.

  They'd need to win about 63% of their games (win on the level of the Suns or Rockets this year) just to get to .500 ball by the end of the season. Right now they're on a 26-27 win pace, to get to .500 they'll have to play on a 50+ win pace. I wouldn't expect Deng to make that much of a difference, and even if he did a .500 record probably won't be in the running for the 3rd seed.

Atlanta is currently the three seed at one game above .500.  While I agree that it's questionable Cleveland can get there, a .500 record is certainly in the running this year.

Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2014, 09:36:40 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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If Deng stays healthy, he's got as good a chance of just about any non-superstar player you could add to that Cleveland rotation to turn them into a 50 win team. He's got well above average passing skills for a 3, he's an elite defender, a minutes soaker, he's exactly what the Cavs need.

But as others have said, he's probably too much, too soon.

For Chicago I think it makes a lot of sense. Nobody was willing to pay much for Deng, and by doing it this way, they get under the salary tax in 2013-2014, which of course they would never have tried to do if Rose weren't out for the year, but now that he is, they can dodge a year so they can potentially use a year later and still avoid the repeater Tax.

So they'll save like ~7-8 million from Luol Deng's actual salary (call it 7.5mil), they'll save another $14 million in lux tax payments, they get a 1st round pick, and they get to exceed the cap in 2 of the next 3 years without worrying about the repeater tax.

Pretty important move. Saving $22 million, getting a future first, couple seconds, and getting another year of potential lux tax eligibility.

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Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2014, 09:41:10 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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If Deng stays healthy, he's got as good a chance of just about any non-superstar player you could add to that Cleveland rotation to turn them into a 50 win team. He's got well above average passing skills for a 3, he's an elite defender, a minutes soaker, he's exactly what the Cavs need.

But as others have said, he's probably too much, too soon.
They're currently on track to be a 27 win team IP. Deng is a good role player, but good role players who balance the roster don't add 23 wins. LeBron adds 27 wins, Deng will be doing well to add 10 to 12 by combining his own play and getting scrubs off the court.

Going in on being a 37 win team?

Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2014, 09:58:04 AM »

Offline Moranis

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They'll only have 10 million in space this summer after waiving boozer. They'll need to make another move to get Melo, or sign and trade for him which is dicey with Dolan.

Don't like this move for the Cavs. They need more talent. Waiters, Thompson, and Bennett don't look like great pieces around Irving, Deng is just a high level role player.
I like the trade a lot for Cleveland.  I think Deng is the type of player that team needs.  He is a solid 2/3 option for a team and the Cavs need that role badly.  He will allow everyone else to shift down a role, which should improve the overall team flow i.e. Waiters becomes the 3rd option, Thompson the 4th option, etc.  Gee now moves to the bench to provide a boost to the second unit.

Great trade indeed. I've always loved Deng. He is just a solid starter that can put teams into contention with the right mix. A lineup of Irving, Waiters, Deng, Thompson, Varejo with Jack and Gee off the bench is definitely good enough to slide up to the three spot in the east...Now going up against Miami and Indy? They'll need some more fire power for that. But still a solid accusation none the less.
and they didn't give up anyone of value and a weak 1st rounder and some 2nd rounders.  Absolute steal for Cleveland even if Deng is just one and done, Cleveland had to go for it this year given the years of crap since Lebron left and the horridness that is the East.  This should get them solidly into the playoffs with a real shot at the 3 seed if they can stay healthy.

  They'd need to win about 63% of their games (win on the level of the Suns or Rockets this year) just to get to .500 ball by the end of the season. Right now they're on a 26-27 win pace, to get to .500 they'll have to play on a 50+ win pace. I wouldn't expect Deng to make that much of a difference, and even if he did a .500 record probably won't be in the running for the 3rd seed.
They are 6.5 games behind Atlanta, who without Horford is fading.  They are 6 games behind Toronto.  They are only 4.5 games behind Washington.  It isn't like they are in the West where they would have no shot at catching the teams ahead of them.  I think Deng makes the world of difference to them. 
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Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2014, 10:03:20 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I think making a playoff run is a big mistake. They haven't hit with a pick since Irving, they needed another piece of talent to come in to their team to change their horizon.

Deng is good enough to push them out of the elite prospects (should be to the playoffs but Cleveland has under performed for two straight years for me so I'm not counting on anything)

Roster make up wise this does fix their biggest positional need, their SFs have been abysmal.
They need to win.  The losing is wearing on the young players.  And while their were better players taken after Thompson and Waiters, I don't think I'd call them misses as they have been pretty solid.  Bennett was a clear miss, though given that draft as a whole thus far no one (outside of Oladipo, Burke, and MCW - all positions filled by the Cavs) has been very good.
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Re: Luol Deng to CLE
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2014, 10:06:51 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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I don't trust Cleveland to draft well, so sure try to win more games I guess.
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