Also, earlier you mentioned how KG, Paul and ray were more efficient "because of Rondo". That's like arguing that LeBron, Wade and Bosh are more efficient on Miami, "because of Chalmers".
Hold on there.
Mario Chalmers is a mediocre PG in almost every respect, and his only real above average skills are his ability to hit open threes and his ability to play solid defense. He's basically Derek Fisher 2.0, but without the clutch. The only reason he is the starting PG in Miami is because they are about a gazillion dollars over the salary cap (due to said big three) and they cannot afford an upgrade at the point- anybody they could get for the mini-midlevel exception would be more of a sideways step rather than an upgrade. The guy is a chump and would be a backup PG on 70% of teams out there. Miami sucks at only two positions, and PG happens to be one of them...hence he gets to start.
Rajon Rondo on the other hand is arguably the greatest playmaking PG in the entire league for the last 2-3 years running. Aside from Chris Paul and Steven Nash there has not been a single PG in the league with the court vision, IQ and passing skills anywhere near that of Rondo since Jason Kidd and John Stockton were in their primes. No, even in his prime Deron was never on that level.
I think it's pretty difficult to deny the intangible impact that Jason Kidd had on the teams he played on. He was never a great scoring PG, but he could still score 10-14 points per night. His ability to combine that with exceptional defense, the best rebounding from his position, and the best playmaking skills in the league all combined to make him without question the best PG of his era. Not only that, but he is a guarantee for the Hall of Fame and will go down in history as one of the greatest PG's to ever play.
Guys like Richard Jefferson and Kenyon Martin practically owe their careers to Jason Kidd, since he made both of those guys look like they were twice as good offensively as they really were.
Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett all signed with Boston as they had just reached the plateu of their careers, and after 2008 they all started a slow (but sure) decline. Despite this, all three of those guys displayed career high scoring percentages while playing with Rondo:
1) In 2009-2010 Paul Pierce shot 47.2% from the field and 41.4% from three. Both career highs. In 2010-2010 he upped his FG% to 49.7%, which was a new career high.
2) In 2010-2011 Ray Allen shot 49.1% from the field and 44.4% from three. Both career highs. In 2012-2013 he shot 45.3% from three, which was a new career high.
3) Kevin Garnett shot over 52% from the field for four consecutive seasons after coming to Boston - 53.9% in 2007-2008, 53.1% in 2008-2009, 52.1% in 2009-2010 and 52.8% in 2010-2011. Before coming to Boston he only shot over 52% one time (2005-2006) and his next best after that was 50.2% (2002-2003, 2004-2005).
4) Since the big 3 era began Kendrick Perkins never shot below 54% from the field. He shot 61.5% in 2007-2008, 57.7% in 2008-2009, 60.2% in 2009-2010 and 54.2% as a Celtic in 2010-2011. Since being traded to OKC he has never shot above 50% from the field (his best was 49.3% as a member of the Thunder in 2010-2011).
Despite the fact that Pierce, Ray and KG were all starting to decline when they came together in the 2007-2008 season, all three of thse guys (and Perk) all scored with career high efficiency while in Boston, playing alongside Rondo.
Yes, you can argue that in the early years some of those numbers (like KG's career high efficiency in 2007-2008) came before Rondo developed into the elite playmaker he is, and yes you could argue some of that had to do with the fact that three hall of famers (who were previously the best player on their team) had now combined and hence had two other hall of famers to distract defenders. That doesn't explain how Perkin's shooting numbers dropped as soon as he moved to OKC, playing alongside guys like Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden.
I've no doubts you can tweak those stas to tell you a different story if you want to, but I assure you those career high shooting percentages you saw from KG, Pierce, Ray and Perk while in Boston had a lot to do with Rondo's ability to constantly get them the ball in exactly the right place, at exactly the right time. Pierce probably benefited least from this as he's good at creating his own shot. Ray, Kevin and Kendrick however were all guys who without a doubt scored a LOT of points off Rajon Rondo assists.
I find it very hard to believe that those guys would have put up career high scorign efficiency numbers at that age if they had today's Mario Chalmers as their PG. I imagine Pierce would have never shot over 46%, KG would have stayed up around 51% and Ray would have been down around 45%-45% at best.
Now, if somebody asks you whether Jason Kidd made his teammates better - would you say yes? How about Steve Nash? How about Chris Paul and John Stockton? I think most people would agree that every one of those guys made everybody around them better. Yes Paul, Nash and Stockton were also great shooters. Kidd was not. Point Guards with elite playmaking ability are incredibly valuable in this league, and also incredibly rare. Hell even all-star calibre big men are more common in the NBA then PG's with the playmaking ability of a Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo.
If Rondo was a complete non-factor offensively (i.e. his offensive impact was on par with Gerald Wallace in his current state) then I would say yes, that offsets the valueof his passing skills. That's not the case though, and Rondo has still been a double figure scorer every season since his sophomore year, and in that time has only ever once shot below 47.5% from the field. If you can score at least 10 PPG and do so while shooting at least 47% from the field, as a pass-first PG, then you are not an offensive liability.
Yes... a couple years of Pierce/KG/Ray playing together along with Rondo's development from "role player" to "all-star" improved everyone's efficiency. But suggesting that Pierce/KG/Ray only had improved efficiency due to Rondo is ridiculous. LeBron's efficiency has improved every year he's been in Miami despite the fact that Wade and Bosh have regressed. Is that due to Chalmers?... or just the fact that players perform better after years of discovering each other's tendencies? Rondo helped with the efficiency in 2010..
It's not the same thing at all. Rondo's role in the Celts offense changed dramatically, Chalmers' role didn't. In LeBron's first year Chalmers had an AST% of 17 or so, this year it's 25. LeBron's has been higher all along, and has only dropped by a few percent. Wade's AST% (also as high or higher than Mario's) didn't drop at all. Rondo's AST% went from 28% in 2008 to 52.5% in 2012, KG and PP's dropped by 1/3 or so during that time. What changes (if any) to Mario's role would you attribute LeBron's play on? If none, why would you think that those two examples are remotely similar?
Also, if you look into the subject, I'll wager players are more likely to improve their scoring efficiencies in their mid-late 20s than they are in their mid 30s regardless of their teammates.
but my point is there were quiet a few players you could have swapped Rondo with during that era and seen little change. For instance, I think Steph Curry even at that stage of his career would have improved the efficiency of KG/Pierce/Ray more than Rondo could... simply because he would spread the floor and add another supreme shooting threat. The team would have played differently, but not necessarily worse.
You could claim that, but it's all conjecture. Is having somewhat better floor spacing more advantageous than getting easy shots off of Rondo's passes? Doubtful. If your theory was true at all it would have to have been early in the big three era, at least when Ray and KG could create their own shots easier. Also, you'd have to consider that replacing Rondo with a better shooter to space the floor (Eddie House, for instance) hurt the offense and our fg% as well.
Topic: Just in case anyone around here forgot how good he was (Read 21462 times)