Biyombo and Gordon FOR Green, Lee, Bogans, and Brooks

[celtic -_- pride]

Biyombo has FAR MORE upside than does Green.  Green is really barely an average player this year with a 15.2 Efficiency Rating.  Bismack has a 12.4 not getting many minutes behind Big Al.  There is NO Big Al on this team for him to NOT get minutes behind.  Biz was tied for 9th in the NBA in blocks last year!!

I just think that many on this blog are drastically overrating Jeff!!!!

Smitty77

Biyombo does have a higher upside, I suppose.  Maybe he becomes a top flight defensive center who can give you 10-12 points a game on like 7 shot attempts.

But he's not as useful a player right now as Green, and it's not clear that he's going to realize his potential at all.  Biyombo is not worth trading starting-quality players.

I am not suggesting trading Green straight up for Green am I??  We would be getting rid of Lee's contract as well.

still doesn't make it better. we are disposing a solid player in green just for a salary dump. i thought the plan was to rebuild and contend as soon as possible. i don't see this trade doing that. if you want to get rid of lee's contract i think there could be a lot better moves to do so.

[pokeKingCurtis]

What Biyombo could potentially be (like a Ben Wallace?) would look really nice next to Sully and Olynyk.

Our 2015 first, Bass and Lee? It could help their playoff aspirations.

But Biyombo is a listed 6'9 and skinny. Even on defense it's questionable whether he can fit in as he is undersized at the 5.

Then there's the problem of too many project bigs. Fav and Olynyk need minutes but are also deficient players. Distributing minutes is gonna be even more of a pain.

And the Bobcats/Hornets are high on Biyombo so you'll probably have to overpay. I reckon Bass + Lee + first is pretty fair value (NOT JEFF GREEN!) but probably won't get it done.

In the end, I'd say yes, but not for GREEN!!!

[Smitty77]

What Biyombo could potentially be (like a Ben Wallace?) would look really nice next to Sully and Olynyk.

Our 2015 first, Bass and Lee? It could help their playoff aspirations.

But Biyombo is a listed 6'9 and skinny. Even on defense it's questionable whether he can fit in as he is undersized at the 5.

Then there's the problem of too many project bigs. Fav and Olynyk need minutes but are also deficient players. Distributing minutes is gonna be even more of a pain.

And the Bobcats/Hornets are high on Biyombo so you'll probably have to overpay. I reckon Bass + Lee + first is pretty fair value (NOT JEFF GREEN!) but probably won't get it done.

In the end, I'd say yes, but not for GREEN!!!

Bass is twice as good a defender as Green and is more consistent on offense.  I would not include Bass in this one.

[LarBrd33]

Biyombo has FAR MORE upside than does Green.  Green is really barely an average player this year with a 15.2 Efficiency Rating.  Bismack has a 12.4 not getting many minutes behind Big Al.  There is NO Big Al on this team for him to NOT get minutes behind.  Biz was tied for 9th in the NBA in blocks last year!!

I just think that many on this blog are drastically overrating Jeff!!!!

Smitty77

That is more funny than you could imagine considering that I have never done drugs and never even consumed alcohol:-))))))))))))))

Smitty77

Smitty... it's not a bad trade idea.  The people dismissing it don't understand it.  Solid idea.  A lot of people here don't think about "big picture" when it comes to trade ideas... and they don't know the names of any players they don't hear about on Celtic games or Sportscenter highlights.

Green/Lee are "meh" players stuck on 3 year contracts.   That's 14 mil a season for players who aren't really necessary for a rebuilding team.  Both of them have "peaked".  Neither is a franchise buildingblock.  Neither has much trade value.

Biyombo has a couple years left on his rookie deal. He's only 21 years old.  He's averaging 13 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36 minutes on 67% shooting.  Solid asset.  Gordon is a 13 mil expiring contract. 

This would be a good deal for Boston.  Doing this deal would give us enough money to go after a max contract next season (unless we extended Bradley and Crawford to big deals).  Charlotte would probably say no. 

[Roy H.]

Why would you want Biyombo?  No thanks.

Because Biz reminds me of a very young and unpolished Bill Russell who played quite well for our Celtics!!!  He just turned 21 in late August.

I normally don't comment on trade ideas that I disagree strongly with...  but what about Biyombo reminds you of a young Bill Russell?  Is it the two college championships, or the Olympic gold medal?  The multiple all-star games?  The championships?

[LarBrd33]

Why would you want Biyombo?  No thanks.

Because Biz reminds me of a very young and unpolished Bill Russell who played quite well for our Celtics!!!  He just turned 21 in late August.

I normally don't comment on trade ideas that I disagree strongly with...  but what about Biyombo reminds you of a young Bill Russell?  Is it the two college championships, or the Olympic gold medal?  The multiple all-star games?  The championships?

Roy... Smitty got carried away with the Bill Russell comment, but the proposed trade (Biyombo + Gordon's expiring conract) for Green + Lee .... that's a VERY good trade for Boston.

You shed 12 million off the books and acquire a 21 year old asset.  It puts Boston in position to land a max contract in the offseason.  I'm just sayin... Melo, Bron, etc all have the ability to opt out this summer and become unrestricted free agents.    The only player on this team who is really a legitimate building block is Jared Sullinger.  Rondo is a former all-star.  Beyond that, everything should be very much on the table.  Who cares if you lose Jeff Green?  Seriously.  IMHO, Biyombo has more trade value than Jeff Green.  He's 21, has potential, performs well in limited minutes... and still on his rookie deal for a couple season.  Green is a fringe starer who has peaked and still has 36 million left on his contract.  Courtney Lee is a bench warmer with 15 million left on his contract. 

[ssspence]

faster this thread dies, the better....

[LarBrd33]

faster this thread dies, the better....

Sincerely don't understand the hostility towards this trade idea.

Is it some attachment to Jeff Green?  He doesn't even crack the NBA's top 100 players and he's stuck on the book at 9 mil a season for the next 3 years. 

Some bizarre attachment to Courtney Lee?

You'd have a hard enough time trading both of those guys for an expiring contract... let alone get a solid prospect like Biyombo for them.   If any team turned down this trade, it would be the Bobcats.

[Roy H.]

faster this thread dies, the better....

Sincerely don't understand the hostility towards this trade idea.

Is it some attachment to Jeff Green?  He doesn't even crack the NBA's top 100 players and he's stuck on the book at 9 mil a season for the next 3 years. 

Some bizarre attachment to Courtney Lee?

You'd have a hard enough time trading both of those guys for an expiring contract... let alone get a solid prospect like Biyombo for them.   If any team turned down this trade, it would be the Bobcats.

Lee probably has no value, but I think that Green would generate some mild interest. I'd put him at a top-10 protected 2015 #1.

What has BB done to impress anybody?

[LarBrd33]

faster this thread dies, the better....

Sincerely don't understand the hostility towards this trade idea.

Is it some attachment to Jeff Green?  He doesn't even crack the NBA's top 100 players and he's stuck on the book at 9 mil a season for the next 3 years. 

Some bizarre attachment to Courtney Lee?

You'd have a hard enough time trading both of those guys for an expiring contract... let alone get a solid prospect like Biyombo for them.   If any team turned down this trade, it would be the Bobcats.

Lee probably has no value, but I think that Green would generate some mild interest. I'd put him at a top-10 protected 2015 #1.

What has BB done to impress anybody?

So Green would get a mid-to-late 1st?

Wouldn't you rather have Biyombo over a mid-to-late 1st?

Best defensive rating on his team... 21 years old... averaging 13 rebounds, 2 blocks per 36 minutes on 67% shooting. Exceptional athlete with freakish 7'7 wingspan.   Seems like a nice asset.   The bigger benefit would be freeing up 12 million in cap space next year and shedding 30 million in long-term salary.

[crimson_stallion]

faster this thread dies, the better....

Sincerely don't understand the hostility towards this trade idea.

Is it some attachment to Jeff Green?  He doesn't even crack the NBA's top 100 players and he's stuck on the book at 9 mil a season for the next 3 years. 

Some bizarre attachment to Courtney Lee?

You'd have a hard enough time trading both of those guys for an expiring contract... let alone get a solid prospect like Biyombo for them.   If any team turned down this trade, it would be the Bobcats.

Does BB crack the NBA's top 100 players?

The problem with this trade is that right now, with Rajon Rondo out, Jeff Green is our leading scorer and arguably our best player, as well as our best defensive swingman. 

If you added BB to this team, there is no possible way he will be anything close to our best player.  In fact I am not even certain that he would crack the starting lineup above Bass and Sullinger.  He would make a nice bench duo with Humphries though, but do you really give up your best scorer and (arguably) best player for a nice bench player?  No.

Biyombo is a pretty decent player with good upside, but on a team that lacks offense as badly as we do there is no way I'd trade Green out unless I'm getting an equally good offensive player back in return...otherwise we will quickly drop to the WORST offensive team in the entire league.

Green is shooting over 40% from three this year, as are AB and Crawford.  Out of those three guys Green is arguably the biggest threat from three, especially in the clutch.  He has the hight to shoot the three over opposing players, which neither Crawford nor Bradley are gifted with.  Trade Green for Biyombo and we lose one of those shooters, which means defense can collapse on Bradley (who is still a bit inconsistent from three) and Crawford (who often has some of the worst shot selection on earth). 

Another reason why this is bad.  We have Bass, Sully, Humphies who are all natural Power Forwards. Sully and Bass are getting big minutes, so Hump (despite playing very well) isn't getting as many minutes as he probably deserves.  At center we have Fav, Olynyk and again Sully. 

1) If we do this trade, which of our bigs has minutes taken away so that Biyombo can play significant minutes?  Bass - who has been playing so well this year?  Sully, who is up there with Green as arguably the best player on the team?  Hump, who has been great off the bench and already doesn't get enough playing time?  Olynyk, a promising Rookie with good potential who needs minutes to develop?  If I had to take minutes from one  of these guys it would be Bass, but he has been so solid this year and is such a hard worker onboth ends of the floor that it's hard to take him out.

2) If we do this trade, who starts at SF?  Courtney Lee, the 6'5" guy who doesn't have much size even for a SG?  Wallace, the guy who has been woefully woeful all season long?  Brooks or Bogans, neither of whom can even crack the rotation?

Jeff Green is a better player right now than Biyombo, and he's also a player who better suits our needs right now.  If we trade him out then we are trading him for a guy who is not as good and doesn't suit our needs, purely in the name of potential (which he may never realise).

Green right now is so much better than Biyombo it's not even funny...

[crimson_stallion]

Biyombo has FAR MORE upside than does Green.  Green is really barely an average player this year with a 15.2 Efficiency Rating.  Bismack has a 12.4 not getting many minutes behind Big Al.  There is NO Big Al on this team for him to NOT get minutes behind.  Biz was tied for 9th in the NBA in blocks last year!!

I just think that many on this blog are drastically overrating Jeff!!!!

Smitty77

That is more funny than you could imagine considering that I have never done drugs and never even consumed alcohol:-))))))))))))))

Smitty77

Smitty... it's not a bad trade idea.  The people dismissing it don't understand it.  Solid idea.  A lot of people here don't think about "big picture" when it comes to trade ideas... and they don't know the names of any players they don't hear about on Celtic games or Sportscenter highlights.

Green/Lee are "meh" players stuck on 3 year contracts.   That's 14 mil a season for players who aren't really necessary for a rebuilding team.  Both of them have "peaked".  Neither is a franchise buildingblock.  Neither has much trade value.

Biyombo has a couple years left on his rookie deal. He's only 21 years old.  He's averaging 13 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36 minutes on 67% shooting.  Solid asset.  Gordon is a 13 mil expiring contract. 

This would be a good deal for Boston.  Doing this deal would give us enough money to go after a max contract next season (unless we extended Bradley and Crawford to big deals).  Charlotte would probably say no.

We have Hump ($12M), Bogans ($5M), Crawford ($5M) and Brooks ($3M) all of which are either expired or non-guaranteed for next season.  We already essentially have $25M in expiring contracts.  We can already go after a max contract next season.

Jeff Green is not a #1 option "best player on your team" guy, but he is a very, very good number two or three option as we saw last year with him playing  alongside Pierce. 

Green struggles a bit when the entire defense focusses on him, but when you have another great scorer to draw the attention, Green then is at his best.

If we could sign a max contract player next season with our current expiring contracts, then the ability to add that max contract player such as Greg Monroe to a neucleous of Rondo, Bradley (who is ever improving), Green and Sullinger (also ever improving) then that's one hell of a group of guys to build around with a very nice balance betwee current skill and future potential...plus a good blend between offese and defense.

Biyombo I can see becoming another Tyson Chandler at best.  Chandler is a very good player, but he's really an Asik like player in that his only game is defense / rebounding and he doesn't have much offensive game outside of put-back dunks.  Is he good enough to build a team around?

This is the same issue I see for Biyombo.  I think he could one day become a very good role player on a good team (like Chandler in Dallas, Perk in Boston, Asik in Chicago) one day, but that's about it. 

Green is averaging 16-17 a night on pretty efficient shooting, while also being one of the best defensive small forwards in the league.  Take him away from this team and you are losing a lot more than you realise...a lot of peope are completely blind towards Greens defense, which is much better than most people see.

[Evantime34]

I think this deal is getting killed too much. I probably would want to replace Bogans with someone who has a longer term contract and add a first or replace Green with Wallace, but the main idea of moving some of our excess wing players for Biyombo and salary cap relief in Gordon is not a bad idea.

It seems that people view Green very high on this board. For those of you who are talking Green up, what do you think would be fair value for him if we were to deal him.

One more thing, for those talking about how trading Green would hurt our defense, I want to point out that Wallace is a better defender (imo) than Green.

[crimson_stallion]

I think this deal is getting killed too much. I probably would want to replace Bogans with someone who has a longer term contract and add a first or replace Green with Wallace, but the main idea of moving some of our excess wing players for Biyombo and salary cap relief in Gordon is not a bad idea.

It seems that people view Green very high on this board. For those of you who are talking Green up, what do you think would be fair value for him if we were to deal him.

One more thing, for those talking about how trading Green would hurt our defense, I want to point out that Wallace is a better defender (imo) than Green.

I believe that Green (both statistically and eye test) is a far superior defender than Wallace at this point in their careers.

Green has shut down (or significantly slowed down) guys like Lebron, Carmello and Durant almost every time Boston has faced those teams since the start of last season.  Elite small forwards typically struggle to score against Green - he has that nice combination of quickness, length and strength that allows him to make life difficult for those guys.  He's quick enough that he's hard to get around, too long to shoot over, too strong to muscle inside.

Wallace doesn't have the length to defend longer  small forwards like Durant, the strength to defend bigger ones like Lebron, or the foot speed to defend quicker guys like Paul George. He's still a solid defender, but he's lost a step and isn't the athlete he once was.  Great hustle guy who always works hard, but no longer a fantastic defender...just solid. 

Also Wallace has zero impact on the offensive end of the floor - if anything I would say he is a significant liability on that end of the court. 

Green not only makes life difficult for opposing swingmen, but he the fact that he is a offensive threat means he forces them to play defense as well.   The fact that he is a two-way player is what makes him more valuable than most people realise.

As somebody else said on one of thse threads, Boston fans seem to be some of the most brutal towards their own players.  I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of teams out there who would be pretty happy to have Green on their team.  His $9M a year is a pretty good deal for a guy who gives you 16-17 points a night, shoots 45% from the field, shoots 40% from three, who gets to the line well and who can defend at a level somewhere between "very good" and "elite".

Look at the type of money guys like Iggy are getting. $9M is solid value for a guy with Green's skill set.

[Smitty77]

Why would you want Biyombo?  No thanks.

Because Biz reminds me of a very young and unpolished Bill Russell who played quite well for our Celtics!!!  He just turned 21 in late August.

I normally don't comment on trade ideas that I disagree strongly with...  but what about Biyombo reminds you of a young Bill Russell?  Is it the two college championships, or the Olympic gold medal?  The multiple all-star games?  The championships?

Notice I said "young and UNPOLISHED" Roy!!!  There are similarities in their NBA strengths and those are rebounding, defense, and shot blocking.  They are also undersized centers with great length an timing on blocking shots.  They are both 6' 9".  Those are the similarities I was and am referring to Roy.  I believe that there are virtually NO similarities leading up to them playing in the NBA.  I think Biyombo started playing late in life, thus the reason why he is "unpolished!!"  I hope that clears it up for you.