Author Topic: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***  (Read 13257 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2013, 01:05:14 AM »

Offline byennie

  • Webmaster
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2572
  • Tommy Points: 3033
Not happening for a top 3 pick; wiggins, parker, and randle are about as can't miss as there have been in a while, and it would be more like "Top 3 pick for Rondo + Goodies" than "Rondo for Top 3 plus goodies." Rondo maybe could get Henson, Giannis, #7-12 or so.

The point was that this is the type of trade the C's should make, not that's it exactly what we could get or what Bucks fans would want.

So Henson + Giannis + #2 is not happening, but if it's #7 we're good?

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2013, 06:43:55 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
I think if you want to deal Rondo, you have to do it on draft night with a team that's afraid to blow a lottery pick and needs star power.

For example:

Henson + Giannis + #2 pick (Parker)?

Would be awfully enticing.

Bucks nation would vomit at a proposal like that.
Henson, Giannis AND their pick?

They would give up Henson, a 2nd rounder and Brandon Knight but that's about it.

Your proposal basically wipes out their future.
I actually made a trade post on the Real GM Bucks forum, offering Rondo, Green & Bradley for Henson, Giannis, a pick and some bad contracts & they ran me outta there with hate haha.
Other teams fans (and educated fans in the Real GM instance) just don't value Rondo like we do. Now that's not to say other GM's don't like him but it gives you perspective.
I mean they scoffed at a starting 5 of Rondo, Green, OJ Mayo,Ilyasova and Larry Sanders like I was high.

A team like them *might* give up their lottery pick+ Henson+bad salary for Rondo,Sully and Avery Bradley.

Don't like your chances in this draft though.

I went and poked around Bucks Real GM to find your post.  I found it, and I must say there weren't a lot of responses that I would classify as overly "educated."

I also posted something similar on the general NBA trade discussion thread ( I think it was Rondo to the Bucks- or it was Rondo to the Kings and Pistons in the same vein). They all told me to jump off a bridge.
Anyway-I'm happy if we keep Rondo. My only concern is that he walks in a season and a half.

Now back to the post we are discussing.
Do you think there are any GM's that would give up Henson, Giannis + a top 5 pick in this years draft? Let alone a 10 10 pick in this years draft, for Rondo?
I really don't think I'm over reacting in saying that Giannis+Henson+top 5 pick in one of the best drafts in the last 50 years for an elite pass first point guard- who by the way is  coming off ACL surgery- is way too much.

I'm not sure if Celtics4ever is implying I'm the guy with anti- Rondo glasses. If you read 50% of my posts on this site you'll know that I like to present the other side of the spectrum that isn't so popular on a Celtics fan site- that doesn't mean I hate Rondo or want to trade him for pennies on the dollar. Unless we get premium value for him then forget it....

BUT, it is my opinion that Giannis, Henson and a top 10 draft pick in this draft is WAY to much for Rajon Rondo with 18 months left on his contract.

Rondo+Olynyk for their draft pick+Giannis? I think something like that might be fair but again, the Bucks want a franchise player and by grabbing Rondo they're giving away their two assets that are most likely to be that franchise guy in 5 years time.
Even Giannis+lottery pick they'd hurl at because of the value of that lottery pick.

It's the reality of the situation. I really couldn't see a single GM that would give up that top 5 pick + Giannis or Henson for Rondo. MAYBE the Bobcats now they've signed Big Al but they don't have anything that would interest us.

The quotes from random GM's are great, but I've just read Chad Ford's notes about 90% of NBA GM's saying he's shopping and fishing for Rondo trades.
I can see why we'd keep him and I can also see why we'd trade him. All depends on what Danny's plan is.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 07:07:15 AM by chambers »
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2013, 06:55:39 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
Not happening for a top 3 pick; wiggins, parker, and randle are about as can't miss as there have been in a while, and it would be more like "Top 3 pick for Rondo + Goodies" than "Rondo for Top 3 plus goodies." Rondo maybe could get Henson, Giannis, #7-12 or so.

The point was that this is the type of trade the C's should make, not that's it exactly what we could get or what Bucks fans would want.

So Henson + Giannis + #2 is not happening, but if it's #7 we're good?

Giannis is almost untouchable for the Bucks. He's looking really good so far. I don't think they even pick up the phone unless the pick is something like 12-16 range at worst if you're asking them to include Giannis and Henson.

Henson+ a top 7 protected might do it but I don't think they trade away that pick and/or Giannis.

Too much of their future resides in those specific assets. Just my opinion.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2013, 07:32:17 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
I'm not sure if Celtics4ever is implying I'm the guy with anti- Rondo glasses. If you read 50% of my posts on this site you'll know that I like to present the other side of the spectrum that isn't so popular on a Celtics fan site- that doesn't mean I hate Rondo or want to trade him for pennies on the dollar. Unless we get premium value for him then forget it....

  Premium value for Rondo needs to start with a player who can play like a top 5 player in the playoffs. If you don't get that then you lose the deal. Players like that are gold and acquiring them (not giving them away) should be at the top of Danny's agenda.

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2013, 08:26:24 AM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182


  Nobody insists that Rondo's better than he is, although some people point out that he's better than many of his detractors claim he is.

FYI, this is the attitude that many forum-goers find insufferable.

"Nobody who agrees with me is wrong; some people point out that people who don't agree with me are wrong."

Many of the pro-Rondo arguments have merit.  I see many arguments -- on either side of the Rondo debate -- that are flawed and even head-scratchingly misguided.

I think it's right to recognize, however, that when an issue like Rondo's value is so hotly debated among people who are, by all appearances, more educated and interested than the average NBA / Celtics fan, there is no clear and obviously correct answer.

This also applies to the tank vs. anti-tank debate, and various other topics that have dominated discussion on these forums pretty much since the KG / Pierce trade.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 08:31:57 AM by PhoSita »
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2013, 08:50:04 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123


  Nobody insists that Rondo's better than he is, although some people point out that he's better than many of his detractors claim he is.

FYI, this is the attitude that many forum-goers find insufferable.

"Nobody who agrees with me is wrong; some people point out that people who don't agree with me are wrong."

Many of the pro-Rondo arguments have merit.  I see many arguments -- on either side of the Rondo debate -- that are flawed and even head-scratchingly misguided.

I think it's right to recognize, however, that when an issue like Rondo's value is so hotly debated among people who are, by all appearances, more educated and interested than the average NBA / Celtics fan, there is no clear and obviously correct answer.

  Yes, we're talking about opinions, generally not facts, and we're backing up our points using statistics that don't fully capture what we're interested in discussing.

  Interesting, though, that you find

 "Nobody insists that Rondo's better than he is, although some people point out that he's better than many of his detractors claim he is"

 insufferable, and not something like

 "i just don't insist Rondo is better than he is. and i don't let my love of the Celtics obscure my objectivity about one player".

  To each his own I guess, but at least I try to argue against the points others make instead of just dismissing them in that fashion.

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2013, 08:59:15 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
I think if you want to deal Rondo, you have to do it on draft night with a team that's afraid to blow a lottery pick and needs star power.

For example:

Henson + Giannis + #2 pick (Parker)?

Would be awfully enticing.

Bucks nation would vomit at a proposal like that.
Henson, Giannis AND their pick?

They would give up Henson, a 2nd rounder and Brandon Knight but that's about it.

Your proposal basically wipes out their future.
I actually made a trade post on the Real GM Bucks forum, offering Rondo, Green & Bradley for Henson, Giannis, a pick and some bad contracts & they ran me outta there with hate haha.
Other teams fans (and educated fans in the Real GM instance) just don't value Rondo like we do. Now that's not to say other GM's don't like him but it gives you perspective.
I mean they scoffed at a starting 5 of Rondo, Green, OJ Mayo,Ilyasova and Larry Sanders like I was high.

A team like them *might* give up their lottery pick+ Henson+bad salary for Rondo,Sully and Avery Bradley.

Don't like your chances in this draft though.

I went and poked around Bucks Real GM to find your post.  I found it, and I must say there weren't a lot of responses that I would classify as overly "educated."

I also posted something similar on the general NBA trade discussion thread ( I think it was Rondo to the Bucks- or it was Rondo to the Kings and Pistons in the same vein). They all told me to jump off a bridge.
Anyway-I'm happy if we keep Rondo. My only concern is that he walks in a season and a half.

Now back to the post we are discussing.
Do you think there are any GM's that would give up Henson, Giannis + a top 5 pick in this years draft? Let alone a 10 10 pick in this years draft, for Rondo?
I really don't think I'm over reacting in saying that Giannis+Henson+top 5 pick in one of the best drafts in the last 50 years for an elite pass first point guard- who by the way is  coming off ACL surgery- is way too much.

I'm not sure if Celtics4ever is implying I'm the guy with anti- Rondo glasses. If you read 50% of my posts on this site you'll know that I like to present the other side of the spectrum that isn't so popular on a Celtics fan site- that doesn't mean I hate Rondo or want to trade him for pennies on the dollar. Unless we get premium value for him then forget it....

BUT, it is my opinion that Giannis, Henson and a top 10 draft pick in this draft is WAY to much for Rajon Rondo with 18 months left on his contract.

Rondo+Olynyk for their draft pick+Giannis? I think something like that might be fair but again, the Bucks want a franchise player and by grabbing Rondo they're giving away their two assets that are most likely to be that franchise guy in 5 years time.
Even Giannis+lottery pick they'd hurl at because of the value of that lottery pick.

It's the reality of the situation. I really couldn't see a single GM that would give up that top 5 pick + Giannis or Henson for Rondo. MAYBE the Bobcats now they've signed Big Al but they don't have anything that would interest us.

The quotes from random GM's are great, but I've just read Chad Ford's notes about 90% of NBA GM's saying he's shopping and fishing for Rondo trades.
I can see why we'd keep him and I can also see why we'd trade him. All depends on what Danny's plan is.

I'm not even sure what your point is anymore, Chambers.  But, my main point with Rondo is if all we can get for him is some young developing players who are long shots to ever be stars and a non top five draft pick, then I don't see any point in trading him.

I would much rather keep him and see how he returns from his injury and whether he can be a leader and continue to be a star player with the new coach and new look Celtics. 

I'm confident and hopeful that he will respond well to the new situation.  All indications so far are that he's exciting about the next leg of his NBA journey and that he's on board with Stevens and the rebuild. 

So, if other GMs starting throwing Danny offers of LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, Paul George, or Anthony Davis for Rondo, sure, I think he'd have to at least consider them.  On the other, hand if the only offers he's getting are the kind of poopoo platters we've been reading rumors about lately, I would hope that Danny is hanging up the phone with swiftness.

DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2013, 09:04:19 AM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182

  Interesting, though, that you find

 "Nobody insists that Rondo's better than he is, although some people point out that he's better than many of his detractors claim he is"

 insufferable, and not something like

 "i just don't insist Rondo is better than he is. and i don't let my love of the Celtics obscure my objectivity about one player".



What I find insufferable about it is that as everybody knows, you think Rondo is a great, transcendent player.  And you are entitled to that opinion.  You've gotten very good at making arguments in favor of that position, since you have so much practice doing it.  It's not an indefensible position.

But when you then say, "I never claim that Rondo is better than he is," you're implying that anybody who suggests Rondo is not as good as you make him out to be is simply wrong. 

A recognition that these debates are about opinions and not verifiable facts ought to lead to the conclusion that believing you're right does not mean that every one who disagrees must necessarily be wrong.


You're right to point out that there are others, on the other side of this particular issue, who make claims as seemingly dogmatic as yours.  Still, I don't know if anybody else around here is as persistently unyielding.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2013, 09:05:48 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
Not happening for a top 3 pick; wiggins, parker, and randle are about as can't miss as there have been in a while, and it would be more like "Top 3 pick for Rondo + Goodies" than "Rondo for Top 3 plus goodies." Rondo maybe could get Henson, Giannis, #7-12 or so.

The point was that this is the type of trade the C's should make, not that's it exactly what we could get or what Bucks fans would want.

So Henson + Giannis + #2 is not happening, but if it's #7 we're good?

Giannis is almost untouchable for the Bucks. He's looking really good so far. I don't think they even pick up the phone unless the pick is something like 12-16 range at worst if you're asking them to include Giannis and Henson.

Henson+ a top 7 protected might do it but I don't think they trade away that pick and/or Giannis.

Too much of their future resides in those specific assets. Just my opinion.

Adetonkounpo is not "looking really good so far."  He's averaging about 10 minutes a game for the Bucks.  I mean, I understand the intelligentsia over at Bucks Real BM being high on his potential--why not?, they've got to grasp on to something--but he's far from a sure thing. 

We've already got better looking young prospects than the Bucks.  It would be completely lacking in sense to trade away our only star player for a handful more. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2013, 09:07:59 AM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Not happening for a top 3 pick; wiggins, parker, and randle are about as can't miss as there have been in a while, and it would be more like "Top 3 pick for Rondo + Goodies" than "Rondo for Top 3 plus goodies." Rondo maybe could get Henson, Giannis, #7-12 or so.

The point was that this is the type of trade the C's should make, not that's it exactly what we could get or what Bucks fans would want.

So Henson + Giannis + #2 is not happening, but if it's #7 we're good?

Giannis is almost untouchable for the Bucks. He's looking really good so far. I don't think they even pick up the phone unless the pick is something like 12-16 range at worst if you're asking them to include Giannis and Henson.

Henson+ a top 7 protected might do it but I don't think they trade away that pick and/or Giannis.

Too much of their future resides in those specific assets. Just my opinion.

Adetonkounpo is not "looking really good so far."  He's averaging about 10 minutes a game for the Bucks.  I mean, I understand the intelligentsia over at Bucks Real BM being high on his potential--why not?, they've got to grasp on to something--but he's far from a sure thing. 

We've already got better looking young prospects than the Bucks.  It would be completely lacking in sense to trade away our only star player for a handful more.


The only thing certain about this Giannis kid is that nobody consistently spells his last name correctly.

 ;)
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2013, 09:08:33 AM »

Offline ssspence

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6375
  • Tommy Points: 403
BBallTim, I took the wrong approach to my point. Let me put it another way:

I think it's selfish that you choose to defend Rondo to the point of baiting irrationality in the vast majority of threads about or around him -- quoting anyone who suggests any deficiency in his game, his place in a rebuild, or even the implications of his position (what was that if Michael Jordan was shorter line in "shoot first point guards"?), often when it's out of context -- to the point where it exhausts the civil, conversational nature of that thread to a place where it's removed from its theme or point.

I acknowledge the volume of discussion about if / when he'll be traded must be irksome for Rondo's most dedicated fans. And I may have been aggressive at times about my desire to trade him -- particularly last year before the deadline in an effort to add anything that might give us one last (long) shot at a title with KG and PP in place of an injured guy. But I haven't been any time recently, and I'm genuinely interested in the views of fellow bloggers about how the Celtics should move forward.

No one is the single authority on a given subject here, with one or two exceptions where one's pretty close (Roy on the topic of the cap comes to mind). Every blogger who has spent significant time here knows with crystal clarity how you feel about Rondo. I think you should question whether it's considerate to repeatedly berate the rest of us about it, realize a little moderation is in order, and give it a rest on occasion.

I'll probably take grief from the mods for this post, but I don't care. I genuinely believe this is not strictly my point of view, and is worth airing for the sake of the forums.

I've certainly been guilty of argumentative behavior at times myself, and I'll take that to heart in an effort to heed my own request to keep things conversational.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: ***amusing Chad Ford tidbit***
« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2013, 09:11:41 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30859
  • Tommy Points: 1327
This thread is no longer about Chad Ford, DA, or any Celtics players. Locked. If you have issues with other posters PMs to the staff or the other poster are the way to go.