Greg Monroe Trade (rumor/piston fans complaining)

[Who]

Greg Monroe is going to get a max contract this summer. Not all that comfortable paying that type of a contract to a player who is neither a top ten C or PF.

I agree that Monroe was one of the worst defensive centers in the league. Right up there with Big Al in terms of how large of a negative defensively Monroe was. As a power forward, hopefully he'll be better but so far he struggling to defend anyone one-on-one or out on the perimeter. He has the quickness problem at that position.

What I do like about Monroe defensively at the C position is that he has decent size (6-11, 250lbs) with above average quickness and mobility for his position. Anyone with those physical tools should be able to turn themselves into a good defender with some work. What troubles me is that G.Monroe is 4 years into his career and he still hasn't shown any sign of improvement or application to improve despite it being one of the Pistons top targets each year.

His two big problems defensively is a lack of physical toughness (ridiculous how easily he gets overpowered) and a lack of discipline + general disinterest in applying himself fully on that end of the floor. Similar to Amare Stoudemire and often LaMarcus Aldridge.

I think Greg Monroe definitely has the tools to become a much better defender than he is but I am not confident betting on him. I think he is much more likely to go the way of Amare Stoudemire and remain a guy who concentrates way too much on his offense and way too little on defense.

[Fafnir]

Its true that blocks don't equate to rim protection. The thing is that Monroe doesn't get blocks or protect the rim. Comparing him to Gasol, is optimistic view of his progression in my book.

[McHales Pits]

Pistons want rondo, if not will want sullinger for monroe. Jazz will likely ask for bradley and olynyk for hayward

No way, i do either trades

I am sure the Pistons would like Rondo, but they are certainly in no position to get him. As I said, the general consensus on the fan forum (I know fans don't run the team, but take it for what it's worth...) is that Monroe was the odd man out going forward. They aren't willing to see the team invest money in him and would rather see him traded for a shooting/defending small forward.

As for Hayward - again, I don't think the Jazz are in the position to demand a whole lot. If they wanted to keep Hayward, they would have signed him before the deadline. They know he has connections to Phoenix (Hornacek) and Boston (Stevens) and that both teams are going to offer him more money than they will want to pay. They would do well to get a future pick, our trade exception, and maybe a small asset like Brooks. Keep in mind that if they requested Bradley, they would still have to pay him as his contract is also up.

[Celtics18]

To be honest - I think the Pistons undervalue him. The Pistons have constructed an imperfect roster with forces Monroe to be the odd man out. There is no getting out of the Josh Smith bed - they are already committed to lying in it. Drummond's athleticism and immense upside is more intriguing to them long term. In order to fix their roster, Smith needs to be at PF and an additional shooter must be added.

In fact, I value Monroe extremely highly. I just view this as a potential buy low situation where we could offer two players of use to them. Both Green and Lee are a bit older than Monroe, but both are in the prime of their careers (27 YO). They are on reasonable contracts and they can both shoot and defend their position - something else Pistons desperately need. Monroe is certainly a loss for them, but these other two players complement their existing lineup better than two-non shooters in Monroe and Stuckey do.

For the Cs, Stuckey is expiring so he is a stop-gap. Monroe - once extended - offers a potential starter for years to come. Sullinger and Monroe would be a terrific offensive complement due to their varying strengths. Sullinger's outside shooting will open up room for Monroe in the paint whereas in Detroit he is being forced to become an outside shooter. This will allow him to play to his strengths and maximize his success. Also, by adding an additional rebounder we can further encourage Sullinger's perimeter game to become a complete player because there will be another player on the floor to clean the glass. Lastly, Monroe's passing gives the Cs another big who can handle the ball and keep the ball moving in a team driven offense without a lead dog for the time being.

I don't think it would make sense to add Monroe and keep Sully.  I don't see the two of them working out long-term as a starting big man combination.  There's not enough of a shot blocking presence defensively with those two. 

My question is; would Monroe even be an upgrade over Sully? 

I'm still high on Olynyk's potential as a power forward.  I'm not desperate to get rid of Sully or anything, but I do think that if we are looking to make a talent upgrade, he is the player that makes most sense as a trade chip. 

If Jared can keep putting up the numbers he's been putting up in bigger minutes, Danny might start to see some very attractive offers for him.

Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph combined for 1.3 BPG last season. Gasol is a good defensive player because he does the little things well, not because he is a rim protector. Both of those players play on the ground and they are a very successful frontcourt.

Fair enough.  Gasol's not a shot blocker, but his size makes him much more of a "true center" defensively than either Monroe or Sully. 

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, just that I'm not completely sold on it. 

[Fafnir]

Not only that, but Marc Gasol is incredibly physical player who focuses on defense. Monroe is a soft player who is offensively orientated.

[Who]

Marc Gasol is a really good shot-blocker. He has fantastic size (7-1) and is consistently in position to challenge shots at the rim.

He is not the weakside shot-blocker like Ibaka or Camby (doesn't have the quickness, leaping ability or mobility) but he positions himself well and meets guys at the rim. Like Hibbert does for Indiana, like A.Bynum used to do before he got injured and like an old Tim Duncan does for San Antonio. Very similar type of shot-blocker to those players. Not quite as good but still very good in his own right.

Edit: Those stats are clearly wrong above about Gasol. He has blocked 1.7 shots a game over the last 4 seasons (1.6bpg to 1.9bpg) and is at 2.1 blocks per game in the playoffs. The man is a really good rim protector.

Edit 2: Ah they (the 1.3bpg) are taken from the 13 games they played this year. Gasol only averaging 1.1bpg plus Z-Bo who hardly ever blocks shots.

[Celtics18]

Marc Gasol is a really good shot-blocker. He has fantastic size (7-1) and is consistently in position to challenge shots at the rim.

He is not the weakside shot-blocker like Ibaka or Camby (doesn't have the quickness, leaping ability or mobility) but he positions himself well and meets guys at the rim. Like Hibbert does for Indiana, like A.Bynum used to do before he got injured and like an old Tim Duncan does for San Antonio. Very similar type of shot-blocker to those players. Not quite as good but still very good in his own right.

Edit: Those stats are clearly wrong above about Gasol. He has blocked 1.7 shots a game over the last 4 seasons and is at 2.1 blocks per game in the playoffs. The man is a really good rim protector.

TP.  I just looked at the numbers, and Gasol is at 1.1 blocks per game so far this season, but he is at 1.6 for his career.  I'm guessing his shot block numbers will start to approach his career averages as the season progresses. 

Also, great points about his defense.  Although, Gasol is not a prototypical, pogo stick, long armed, high volume shot blocker, he is a very effective interior defender. 

[BleedGreen1989]

Giving non-star players max money is a recipe for mediocrity. I like Monroe, but if he's your best or 2nd best player and he's earning max dollars, I think you're in trouble.

Edit: I think that roster was destined to fail. Monroe cannot play PF. I actually think Monroe at C and Smith at PF provides better balance than any combination they can do. Smith's rim protection and terrific quickness would protect Monroe's back. Obviously they're not moving Drummond though. Maybe if Dumars gets antsy enough they will?

[McHales Pits]

I apologize about the misleading stats... they are from this season, not last. Thanks for pointing that out. I missed that, too.

My point regarding Monroe in general is that the Celtics are in a phase of team development where they should be looking for building block type players on both their team and other teams. Generally, teams don't give up good young players unless you give them a superstar in return, they are underachieving or are a poor fit with the current roster, or if they don't want to pay them.

The Celtics have stated they are keeping Rondo so that is out of the question at this time. They need to identify players that fit that description and Monroe and Hayward are two examples. Are these players perfect? No, but if they were they wouldn't be available. The Cs should be focused on adding talent to their roster now and letting Stevens figure out how to maximize it. Both would be an improvement for a roster lacking talent right now.

If not them, then who else?

[KCattheStripe]

Pistons want rondo, if not will want sullinger for monroe. Jazz will likely ask for bradley and olynyk for hayward

No way, i do either trades

I do Bradley and  Ko for Hayward and never look back.

[ssspence]

I think you are undervaluing Monroe.  It is an interesting trade, but I think the C's would need to send one more premium asset for the Pistons to consider it.  Green is older, will be a free agent in a couple years, and Monroe is already a better player at a significantly more premium position.

I think this could be an interesting draft day trade though, if the C's end up later in the lottery, like maybe 10th pick or something.  I think Green and a late lottery pick in a loaded draft could get the Pistons to the table.

I really wouldn't want to give a lottery pick and pay Monroe.

I'm not sure that post up slow footed Cs are worth it in today's game. If you're a defensive force in some way you can figure it out. But Monroe looks like Big Al on D, just kills you over and over.

Is he that bad defensively?  When I have watched him, I thought he was good.

Honestly, I think Detroit should be trading Josh Smith instead.  Smith is not a good fit with Drummond, while I think Monroe is.  That is a great front-line if you have some perimeter players who can stretch the defense. 

Maybe the trade is actually Green and filler for Josh Smith.

Agree with you on Smith. He's not a player I'd sign to a large FA deal anyway, but he's a particularly bad fit on a team building around Monroe and Drummond, and it got worse when they added Jennings. If they could trade him for a strong wing shooter (a big if), the should. I pray Ainge doesn;t get tempted take him for Green.

[Moranis]

Giving non-star players max money is a recipe for mediocrity. I like Monroe, but if he's your best or 2nd best player and he's earning max dollars, I think you're in trouble.

Edit: I think that roster was destined to fail. Monroe cannot play PF. I actually think Monroe at C and Smith at PF provides better balance than any combination they can do. Smith's rim protection and terrific quickness would protect Monroe's back. Obviously they're not moving Drummond though. Maybe if Dumars gets antsy enough they will?

Monroe's max dollars though are not "max" dollars since he is young and not a MVP or All-NBA guy.  It is still a lot of money, but it isn't a crippling amount of money either.

[BleedGreen1989]

Giving non-star players max money is a recipe for mediocrity. I like Monroe, but if he's your best or 2nd best player and he's earning max dollars, I think you're in trouble.

Edit: I think that roster was destined to fail. Monroe cannot play PF. I actually think Monroe at C and Smith at PF provides better balance than any combination they can do. Smith's rim protection and terrific quickness would protect Monroe's back. Obviously they're not moving Drummond though. Maybe if Dumars gets antsy enough they will?

Monroe's max dollars though are not "max" dollars since he is young and not a MVP or All-NBA guy.  It is still a lot of money, but it isn't a crippling amount of money either.

I'm not fimiliar with the max levels. What would his be?

[Chris]

I think you are undervaluing Monroe.  It is an interesting trade, but I think the C's would need to send one more premium asset for the Pistons to consider it.  Green is older, will be a free agent in a couple years, and Monroe is already a better player at a significantly more premium position.

I think this could be an interesting draft day trade though, if the C's end up later in the lottery, like maybe 10th pick or something.  I think Green and a late lottery pick in a loaded draft could get the Pistons to the table.

I really wouldn't want to give a lottery pick and pay Monroe.

I'm not sure that post up slow footed Cs are worth it in today's game. If you're a defensive force in some way you can figure it out. But Monroe looks like Big Al on D, just kills you over and over.

Is he that bad defensively?  When I have watched him, I thought he was good.

Honestly, I think Detroit should be trading Josh Smith instead.  Smith is not a good fit with Drummond, while I think Monroe is.  That is a great front-line if you have some perimeter players who can stretch the defense. 

Maybe the trade is actually Green and filler for Josh Smith.

Agree with you on Smith. He's not a player I'd sign to a large FA deal anyway, but he's a particularly bad fit on a team building around Monroe and Drummond, and it got worse when they added Jennings. If they could trade him for a strong wing shooter (a big if), the should. I pray Ainge doesn;t get tempted take him for Green.

I actually think he would be an interesting fit for the C's, particularly if they get Parker or Wiggins in the draft.  You slide Smith in as your PF next to Sully at center (yeah, I know Sully is small, but having Smith next to him, gives them a rim protector, so it might work).  Suddenly you have a very interesting up-tempo team, that can start winning games as they develop their new superstar.  And Smith would come off the books right around when the draft pick will be due for his extension. 

[indeedproceed]

Pistons want rondo, if not will want sullinger for monroe. Jazz will likely ask for bradley and olynyk for hayward

No way, i do either trades

I do Bradley and  Ko for Hayward and never look back.

I'd trade .65 for a dollar every time as well. Just good practice.