trade idea: swapping bad contracts with Knicks

[Jeff]

so here's an idea that got tweeted to me today by @Dcanngieter

Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Avery bradley To knicks for Amare and Tim Hardaway JR

Let that soak in for a min.

Wallace/Hump for Amare is a net wash in terms of total salary but instead of paying out $22M, $10M, $10M over 3 years, it is $21, $23 - gives us flexibility AFTER next year

then it gets interesting - we give up on Bradley but we also don't have to play the restricted free agent game with him this summer (where he could get a lot more than we want to pay him)

instead, we get a long look at Hardaway Jr. on his cost controlled rookie deal

I think ultimately it isn't a great trade, but it was enough to make me stop and think

[Birdman]

I say Knicks would say yes but as a Celtic fan, I may not

[jambr380]

I think the Knicks definitely go for a Wallace / Humphries for Amar'e swap. As a Celtics fan, it is kind of a take it or leave it situation.

I guess the part that we need to take a closer look at is Avery for Hardaway. If Hardaway is seen to be a solid prospect with room to grow, then maybe it makes sense, but Avery is a proven top-tier defender in this league and I don't think the extra couple of years we get with Hardaway totally makes up for it.

Throw in Lee and Bass [with Avery] and keep the expiring Humphries, then maybe it makes more sense, but that still maybe selling low on Avery...

[kozlodoev]

so here's an idea that got tweeted to me today by @Dcanngieter

Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Avery bradley To knicks for Amare and Tim Hardaway JR

Let that soak in for a min.

Wallace/Hump for Amare is a net wash in terms of total salary but instead of paying out $22M, $10M, $10M over 3 years, it is $21, $23 - gives us flexibility AFTER next year

then it gets interesting - we give up on Bradley but we also don't have to play the restricted free agent game with him this summer (where he could get a lot more than we want to pay him)

instead, we get a long look at Hardaway Jr. on his cost controlled rookie deal

I think ultimately it isn't a great trade, but it was enough to make me stop and think

I don't think I'd downgrade on talent for deal control. First, talent in the NBA is not that much, and second, deals are too short for this to matter. Ultimately, good players are getting paid sooner rather than latter, so I wouldn't approach the concept of team control the way you do in baseball.

[Who]

Giving up Bradley seems like a high price to pay to avoid that final year of G.Wallace's contract. Is that summer's free agent class a very strong group? How much All-Star caliber talent is in it?

Even if it a strong enough group, I think this is the type of trade that should be put on hold closer to that time. Like Miami giving up Beasley on eve of 2010 FA. Doing it now (at the cost of Avery Bradley) two years before it happens feels like betting too much on a long shot scenario that is too far away to judge accurately.

[Vermont Green]

I think the Knicks definitely go for a Wallace / Humphries for Amar'e swap. As a Celtics fan, it is kind of a take it or leave it situation.

I guess the part that we need to take a closer look at is Avery for Hardaway. If Hardaway is seen to be a solid prospect with room to grow, then maybe it makes sense, but Avery is a proven top-tier defender in this league and I don't think the extra couple of years we get with Hardaway totally makes up for it.

Throw in Lee and Bass [with Avery] and keep the expiring Humphries, then maybe it makes more sense, but that still maybe selling low on Avery...

So not sure I follow, are you saying:

Celtics give:  Wallace, Bass, Lee

Celtics get:  Stoudemire, Hardaway Jr.

I actually like that a lot.  The Knicks get a more serviceable player in Bass over Humphries which is their goal.  We keep the expiring (Humphries) sending out two longer term but not all that terrible contracts (Bass and Lee) plus we get to keep Bradley and get a reasonable younger prospect to replace Lee.

I like this and I think the Knicks might just do it.  They get much better getting 3 players that should help them and give up Amare and a Rookie who is not really rotation material right now.  They take back more money this way but they are actually better off for winning now with Bass/Lee vs. Humphries/Bradley.  I guess we might need to send another contract to make the first year number work but I like where this could go.

[slamtheking]

I think the Knicks definitely go for a Wallace / Humphries for Amar'e swap. As a Celtics fan, it is kind of a take it or leave it situation.

I guess the part that we need to take a closer look at is Avery for Hardaway. If Hardaway is seen to be a solid prospect with room to grow, then maybe it makes sense, but Avery is a proven top-tier defender in this league and I don't think the extra couple of years we get with Hardaway totally makes up for it.

Throw in Lee and Bass [with Avery] and keep the expiring Humphries, then maybe it makes more sense, but that still maybe selling low on Avery...

So not sure I follow, are you saying:

Celtics give:  Wallace, Bass, Lee

Celtics get:  Stoudemire, Hardaway Jr.

I actually like that a lot.  The Knicks get a more serviceable player in Bass over Humphries which is their goal.  We keep the expiring (Humphries) sending out two longer term but not all that terrible contracts (Bass and Lee) plus we get to keep Bradley and get a reasonable younger prospect to replace Lee.

I like this and I think the Knicks might just do it.  They get much better getting 3 players that should help them and give up Amare and a Rookie who is not really rotation material right now.  They take back more money this way but they are actually better off for winning now with Bass/Lee vs. Humphries/Bradley.  I guess we might need to send another contract to make the first year number work but I like where this could go.

I'd go for that.  considering Amare is a non-entity on the court now and they want to add more talent around Melo, I can't see the knicks saying no

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I think the Knicks definitely go for a Wallace / Humphries for Amar'e swap. As a Celtics fan, it is kind of a take it or leave it situation.

I guess the part that we need to take a closer look at is Avery for Hardaway. If Hardaway is seen to be a solid prospect with room to grow, then maybe it makes sense, but Avery is a proven top-tier defender in this league and I don't think the extra couple of years we get with Hardaway totally makes up for it.

Throw in Lee and Bass [with Avery] and keep the expiring Humphries, then maybe it makes more sense, but that still maybe selling low on Avery...

So not sure I follow, are you saying:

Celtics give:  Wallace, Bass, Lee

Celtics get:  Stoudemire, Hardaway Jr.

I actually like that a lot.  The Knicks get a more serviceable player in Bass over Humphries which is their goal.  We keep the expiring (Humphries) sending out two longer term but not all that terrible contracts (Bass and Lee) plus we get to keep Bradley and get a reasonable younger prospect to replace Lee.

I like this and I think the Knicks might just do it.  They get much better getting 3 players that should help them and give up Amare and a Rookie who is not really rotation material right now.  They take back more money this way but they are actually better off for winning now with Bass/Lee vs. Humphries/Bradley.  I guess we might need to send another contract to make the first year number work but I like where this could go.

This one is palatable but if DA gives up AB for Jr. that's a HORRIBLE move! AB is ONLY 22 himself, yes he will cost more but that's because he is a much better player and he is not even close to his prime either! Why would I just give AB away when I can get more if I REALLY want to move him! If you think AB can't get more than Jr., then we disagree, I just hope DA thinks more highly of AB and what he can get.

[ssspence]

I think it's unnecessary to give up Avery in the deal. I'd be surprised if the Knicks wouldn't do Humphries and Wallace for Amare alone, and I don't see Ainge sending out Bradley in a salary dump -- unless it's a better one that taking back Stoudemire.

[aporel#18]

Amare+Shumpert for Wallace+Humphries+Lee works on the trade machine... not sure if it would work in real life, but that's the trade I'd do.

Knicks don't have any assets to give outside Hardaway Jr., so it's better to maximize the salary cutting this year. Since Amare and Shumpert are injured, that would assure getting something out of the trade even if Amare can't play and Shump can't be back to 100%. The Cs would cut something like 3M in the process, so they could sign a couple of minimum contracts (Kendall Marshall, Jason Collins...?)and still be under the cap.

In the unprobable case Amare and Shump can play, this trade improves our starting five when Rondo is back. Rondo to Amare 2 men game would be great... but I'd say there's a 5% chance that would happen.

Get it done, Danny!

[Diggles]

My Favorite trade idea with Knicks

Wallace/Bass and Lee
for
Stat and Hardaway Jr

[Mr October]

I don't think I'd do that deal. Amare can barely get on the court. At least Wallace can get on the court and plays with a professional attitude.

I would only make this deal if I thought the Celtics had a legit shot at landing Kevin Love or Lamarcus Aldridge in the summer of 2015 with all that cap space. To be honest I don't think they would bite. Their current teams should still look better than Boston, barring the drafting of the next great one.

Instead, I would keep holding Humphries as a means to grease the wheels as a 3rd team in a big trade around the deadline for a future late 1st pick, or second pick or something.

[dreamgreen]

I would do any of the deals mentioned as long as they make us worse. I want to continue to develop Sully and KO while we lose as many games as possible.

If we can land a legit scorer at the wing spot in the draft, add a cheap defensive big, I'd like our future.

[Smitty77]

I would ONLY trade Avery away IF we were getting Shumpert back and even then I would think long and hard about flipping Bradley, who seemingly is finally developing an outside shot, for the very offensively inconsistent Iman.

IDK.

Smitty77

[connor]

I love the general concept of this deal, but I don't think the C's are getting enough value back in this particular deal.

I'm all for jettisoning the 3rd year of Wallace's deal for Amare's giant deal that ends a year sooner. I don't see us as major players in this year's free agency so I'd be happy to move Humphries expiring contract to get it done. Amare helps us tank, and if he ever does get on the court I think he and Rondo would be fun to watch (until Amare goes down soon thereafter).

The problem I have is that Avery has so much more value than Hardaway Jr., and despite Hardaway Jr being on his rookie deal and Bradley heading for free agency, I still think the C's aren't getting enough back. Bradley is a proven defensive force and seems to be, slowly, getting his jumpshot in working oder. The Knicks seem extremely high on Hardaway Jr., but he could just as likely be an end of the bench player as he could end up being better than Bradley. Not worth the risk.

Even if Danny doesn't see Bradley as the long term complement to Rondo in the backcourt and isn't planning on chasing him this summer, I'd think he'd be able to find better value elsewhere.

I'd rather try and sell the Knicks on Crawford. He's expiring and seems to have matured with respect to his game. He's figured out that passing the ball up more often allows him to stay on the court longer and still get up all the shots he wants. And now that it's not a given that he is putting up a shot every time he gets the ball, he's getting better looks. If Danny can convince that getting 3 solid rotational guys for a late first round rookie and a guy trapped in a suit, I'd be very happy.

Otherwise I think the Knicks would have to chip in at least a future first if Bradley is essential. But I'd rather see what we could get for him elsewhere.