Author Topic: Monster mid-season rebuild.  (Read 2180 times)

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Monster mid-season rebuild.
« on: November 14, 2013, 10:52:38 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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Dear Celticsblog gang,

I wrote this mammoth thread on celticsgreen last night while I was bored at work.  Is it possible?  Impossible?  Smart?  Stupid?  You be the judge!


To Minnesota: Courtney Lee
To Boston: Alexi Shved(sp?), Gorgi Deng(sp?)

Minny is looking to load up on vets to let KLove know that there are serious to build a winner around them. They are also have very depth at SG behind the always brittle Kevin Martin. We would end up getting a much more palatable contract in Shved, and in Deng we get a big man that may not have much upside, but could certainly be a decent big off the bench someday.

To Milwaukee: Rajon Rondo
To Boston: Giannis Whatshisname, Ikpe Udoh, Luke Ridnour, 2014 first round pick (unprotected), option to swap picks in 2015

This would be a big gamble on our part. Rondo is already a multi-time all star and one of the best PGs in the league. However, he is due a new contract soon and I think he will be able to demand a max-level deal, and if I were GM I would not feel comfortable committing that much salary to him. We would be banking on Milwaukee ending up in the lottery. I also think The Greek Freak has some tantilizing potential, though he is light years away from showing it. This trade is definitely a gamble, but it could be huge if things go our way. (Also, we may need to throw in one of our low dollar backups into this deal to make the roster spots work out).

To New York: Gerald Wallace, Brandon Bass, Luke Ridnour
To Boston: the ghose of Amare Stoudamire, Iman Shumpert, 2019 1st round pick

We would have to do this deal within 49 hours of the Milwaukee deal in order for Ridnour to be trade eligible (it may be easier to make it a three team mega deal). The Knicks rid themselves of Amere, who at this point in his career can only play roughly 10-15 a game, and Shumpurt, who has fallen behind JR Smith and Tim Hardaway Jr in the depth chart. They gain 3 players that should become immediate rotation members for their team. The C's get rid of 3 players in their 30s, one of which has one of the worst contracts in basketball. I'd rather take on a year and half of Amare's awful deal than 2 and half years of Wallace's contract. I treat bad contracts like removing a bandaid: the quicker you can remove it, the less it'll hurt. We would also get Shumpert, who I believe does still have some potential. And hey, we get another 1st rounder! (though if New York balked at that I would still do the deal).

So this is the lineup we would end the season with:

Crawford, Pressey
Bradley, Shumpert, Bogans, Shved
Green, the Greek Freak,
Sully, Humphries, Amare
Fav, KO, Deng, Udoh

Not the prettiest lineup. We should end up with a pretty good pick at the end of the year. The plus is we will no longer have a bad contract on this team after 2015! We struggle for one more season, then by the 15-16 season we should have a handful of very good young players and scads of cap room. Sounds like a great way to jumpstart our next championship run


Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2013, 11:08:04 PM »

Offline celticmania

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I like it alot.... Hopefully we get a top 3 pick and Bucks  stink enough to get us another top 6 pick. Imagine Randle at the second pick and Jabari Parker at 5 ! I kinda don't want to think about because it's too good to be true lol

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2013, 11:21:33 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  I'm never a fan of trades that falls into the category of "sure, it leaves the roster in complete shambles, but if we score big in the lottery and free agency it will be fine". Instead of talking about how great it will be if we get both Randle and Parker, take a look at how things will look if we don't get a top prospect, and somehow fail to convince any superstars to join a team without any top level talent.

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 01:01:29 AM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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I like it alot.... Hopefully we get a top 3 pick and Bucks  stink enough to get us another top 6 pick. Imagine Randle at the second pick and Jabari Parker at 5 ! I kinda don't want to think about because it's too good to be true lol

That would be pretty great but I can't imagine that Milwaukee would be that bad.  My guess is they'd be in the 9-15 range.  But it would be fantastic if they did drop like that!

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 01:14:00 AM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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  I'm never a fan of trades that falls into the category of "sure, it leaves the roster in complete shambles, but if we score big in the lottery and free agency it will be fine". Instead of talking about how great it will be if we get both Randle and Parker, take a look at how things will look if we don't get a top prospect, and somehow fail to convince any superstars to join a team without any top level talent.

There is certainly risk.  We could draft a lemon.  We could sign a lemon.  A meteor could destroy the earth.  Them's the breaks.  But what is the downside of a move like this?  We break up a core that could maybe, just maybe, win 40 games and get trounced in the first round?  Sounds like a low risk/high reward deal to me.

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 01:49:39 AM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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The Knicks have Felton, Prigioni, Udrih, and Murray as PGs, so they're probably not going to be enticed to take on Ridnour unless Felton's getting shipped out elsewhere (which I'm sure they'd love to do).

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2013, 02:51:33 AM »

Offline chambers

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  I'm never a fan of trades that falls into the category of "sure, it leaves the roster in complete shambles, but if we score big in the lottery and free agency it will be fine". Instead of talking about how great it will be if we get both Randle and Parker, take a look at how things will look if we don't get a top prospect, and somehow fail to convince any superstars to join a team without any top level talent.

If you want to win a championship you're gonna have to get lucky in free agency or via the draft one way or the other.

If that's too risky for you then you don't understand the odds of winning an NBA championship let alone making the conference finals.

There's essentially 4 categories in the NBA.

A)Contenders
B)Pretenders
C)mediocre playoff coin flippers
D)lottery land

To get to A and B you must either get lucky in the draft or sign a major free agent or two. Most teams in category A get lucky in free agency AND the draft or two counts of each.
Danny Ainge tried to get CP3 & David West to add to KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Just Imagine if the stars had aligned...

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2013, 05:23:37 AM »

Offline BballTim

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  I'm never a fan of trades that falls into the category of "sure, it leaves the roster in complete shambles, but if we score big in the lottery and free agency it will be fine". Instead of talking about how great it will be if we get both Randle and Parker, take a look at how things will look if we don't get a top prospect, and somehow fail to convince any superstars to join a team without any top level talent.

There is certainly risk.  We could draft a lemon.  We could sign a lemon.  A meteor could destroy the earth.  Them's the breaks.  But what is the downside of a move like this?  We break up a core that could maybe, just maybe, win 40 games and get trounced in the first round?  Sounds like a low risk/high reward deal to me.

  Again, that's because you're going on the assumptions that if we break up the roster then we're a shoo-in to somehow load up on top level talent but if we don't it's highly unlikely we'll be able to make any decent trades or sign any free agents or draft well.

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2013, 05:31:53 AM »

Offline BballTim

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  I'm never a fan of trades that falls into the category of "sure, it leaves the roster in complete shambles, but if we score big in the lottery and free agency it will be fine". Instead of talking about how great it will be if we get both Randle and Parker, take a look at how things will look if we don't get a top prospect, and somehow fail to convince any superstars to join a team without any top level talent.

If you want to win a championship you're gonna have to get lucky in free agency or via the draft one way or the other.

If that's too risky for you then you don't understand the odds of winning an NBA championship let alone making the conference finals.

  There's also trades. The Celts won a title without getting lucky in the draft (losing the Duncan and Oden/Durant lotteries). So did the Pistons, so did the Mavs, so did the Lakers. It's not easy, but if you think that gutting your team to hope for lottery magic or expecting to lure superstar free agents to your team with a bad roster is somehow more likely then you don't understand the odds of winning a title or contending for one at all.

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2013, 05:36:38 AM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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  I'm never a fan of trades that falls into the category of "sure, it leaves the roster in complete shambles, but if we score big in the lottery and free agency it will be fine". Instead of talking about how great it will be if we get both Randle and Parker, take a look at how things will look if we don't get a top prospect, and somehow fail to convince any superstars to join a team without any top level talent.

If you want to win a championship you're gonna have to get lucky in free agency or via the draft one way or the other.

If that's too risky for you then you don't understand the odds of winning an NBA championship let alone making the conference finals.

  There's also trades. The Celts won a title without getting lucky in the draft (losing the Duncan and Oden/Durant lotteries). So did the Pistons, so did the Mavs, so did the Lakers. It's not easy, but if you think that gutting your team to hope for lottery magic or expecting to lure superstar free agents to your team with a bad roster is somehow more likely then you don't understand the odds of winning a title or contending for one at all.

I'll grant you the Pistons.  But the C's don't win a title if they don't take the 06-07 season and get the #5 that allowed them to trade for Ray.  And the Lakers were lucky to get a once in a lifetime player who came out in a time that the league wasn't hip to scouting high school kids (it also didn't hurt that he refused to play anywhere but LA, NYC, and Chicago).

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 06:01:38 AM »

Offline BballTim

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  I'm never a fan of trades that falls into the category of "sure, it leaves the roster in complete shambles, but if we score big in the lottery and free agency it will be fine". Instead of talking about how great it will be if we get both Randle and Parker, take a look at how things will look if we don't get a top prospect, and somehow fail to convince any superstars to join a team without any top level talent.

If you want to win a championship you're gonna have to get lucky in free agency or via the draft one way or the other.

If that's too risky for you then you don't understand the odds of winning an NBA championship let alone making the conference finals.

  There's also trades. The Celts won a title without getting lucky in the draft (losing the Duncan and Oden/Durant lotteries). So did the Pistons, so did the Mavs, so did the Lakers. It's not easy, but if you think that gutting your team to hope for lottery magic or expecting to lure superstar free agents to your team with a bad roster is somehow more likely then you don't understand the odds of winning a title or contending for one at all.

I'll grant you the Pistons.  But the C's don't win a title if they don't take the 06-07 season and get the #5 that allowed them to trade for Ray.  And the Lakers were lucky to get a once in a lifetime player who came out in a time that the league wasn't hip to scouting high school kids (it also didn't hurt that he refused to play anywhere but LA, NYC, and Chicago).

  I personally think if the Celts pick had been a little worse Seattle still would have wanted to unload Ray. But in any case, we had the 2nd worst record in the league and ended up with the 5th pick in a draft with 4 top prospects. That's hardly "getting lucky in the draft", it's more like making the best of getting unlucky in the draft. And you can say the Lakers getting Kobe was unlikely, but so is pretty much every scenario that led to a team winning titles.

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 07:39:11 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I would rather have proven players than this heap of trash and picks that we don't know how they will turn out.

Last rebuild Ainge retooled around our quality vet aka Paul Pierce.   I hope he keeps Jeff Green and Rondo this go.

Re: Monster mid-season rebuild.
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 09:27:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Don't like the Milwaukee part of the trade.
2014 Pick 2 Draft 18th pick of 20
Sacramento Kings
Starters - Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon, Jimmy Butler, Dirk Nowitzki, Demarcus Cousins
Bench - Kendall Marshall, Michael Carter-Williams, Vince Carter, Wesley Johnson, Marcus Morris, Miles Plumlee, Nerlens Noel

 

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