Rondo will make this team better.

[D.o.s.]

There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night.  I am not one of those who buy this.  I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team.  His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.

I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either).  Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes).  I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.

I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.

We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan

Small sample size, but assuming you're flexible enough to add his Westbrook-esque close range pullup to his layups, Crawford's been doing that all season.

Not that Rondo isn't an upgrade at the point, of course.

Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).

That's true, but how fun would it be if he magically started shooting, say, 40% from deep off-the-dribble?

[Celtics18]

There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night.  I am not one of those who buy this.  I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team.  His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.

I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either).  Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes).  I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.

I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.

We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan

Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work.  Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays.  You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart. 

The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology. 

[Interceptor]

Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).

That's true, but how fun would it be if he magically started shooting, say, 40% from deep off-the-dribble?

That would be exciting. I wouldn't mind giving a max contract to Cliff Paul.

[Celtics18]

Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).

That's true, but how fun would it be if he magically started shooting, say, 40% from deep off-the-dribble?

That would be exciting. I wouldn't mind giving a max contract to Cliff Paul.

The last thing I want is a point guard who consistently pulls up from beyond the arc off the dribble.  I hate that shot.

[Interceptor]

Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work.  Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays.  You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart. 

The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.

Indeed. Some may remember when a certain team tried this strategy against him in the playoffs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndyfsS0bFK8

WHOOPS.

The last thing I want is a point guard who consistently pulls up from beyond the arc off the dribble.  I hate that shot.

I don't like it either, but if it goes in 40% of the time, I've got both feet on the bandwagon and I'm bringing friends.

[Tr1boy]

There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night.  I am not one of those who buy this.  I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team.  His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.

I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either).  Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes).  I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.

I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.

We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan

Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work.  Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays.  You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart. 

The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.

Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?

They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.

[D.o.s.]

Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).

That's true, but how fun would it be if he magically started shooting, say, 40% from deep off-the-dribble?

That would be exciting. I wouldn't mind giving a max contract to Cliff Paul.

The last thing I want is a point guard who consistently pulls up from beyond the arc off the dribble.  I hate that shot.

I weep for your soul.

[Celtics18]

Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).

That's true, but how fun would it be if he magically started shooting, say, 40% from deep off-the-dribble?

That would be exciting. I wouldn't mind giving a max contract to Cliff Paul.

The last thing I want is a point guard who consistently pulls up from beyond the arc off the dribble.  I hate that shot.

I weep for your soul.

Really?  To me the pull up three is the most soulless shot in basketball. 

[Celtics18]

There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night.  I am not one of those who buy this.  I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team.  His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.

I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either).  Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes).  I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.

I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.

We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan

Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work.  Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays.  You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart. 

The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.

Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?

They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.

Game seven in the Eastern conference semis against Philly in 2012 comes to mind.  I grant you, though, that the way Rajon Rondo generally crushes the opposition is not with his jump shot.  He usually does it in a variety of different ways. 

[BballTim]

There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night.  I am not one of those who buy this.  I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team.  His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.

I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either).  Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes).  I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.

I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.

We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan

Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work.  Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays.  You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart. 

The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.

Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?

They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.

  Where's your evidence that Rondo is so ineffective in the 4th quarter against top teams? It's easy to see (from 82games) that he's normally best or close to best in assists during crunch time.

  There are two main things to be gained by backing off of Rondo and daring him to shoot. One, have his defender help towards his passing targets to limit their ability to score after he passes the ball. Two, to be far enough away from him that you prevent him from driving off of the dribble. There's ample evidence that neither one of these things occur. They don't stop him from getting assists and they don't keep him out of the lane.

[D.o.s.]

Really?  To me the pull up three is the most soulless shot in basketball. 

But it can look soooooooooo gooooooooood.

Although the stepback fadeaway is still, and will probably always be, the prettiest shot in the game.

[BballTim]

Of course he makes them better.


The better question:  Does this team help Rondo be better?



I don't think it does.  Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great.  He needs better weapons.

Disagree completely with your assessment.

Why?   Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo?   Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates?  (or at least spreads the floor)

  So you're claiming that you don't see any players on the current roster that would benefit from getting easier scoring opportunities?

This roster is not filled with great shooters, that's when Rondo is at his best.  They have pick and pop with Bass and that's about it?  Last year he had Bass, KG, Pierce and JET.  This year he has Bass?  Who is going to consistently knock down shots, whether they are good looks or not?

  When you say "that's when Rondo is at his best", what are you basing that on? Can you show that Rondo's been unable to succeed without certain players on the court?

Can you show me the pass first PG who did not have a good outside shot (though Rondo has improved on his) that was at their "best" when surrounded by at best, decent offensive players and no real outside threat?

  Why don't you come up with a list of point guards with average or worse outside shots that do everything else on offense as well as Rondo and we'll go from there.

Because lets be honest, Rondo has been blessed with good shooters and good offensive players.  That's a positive thing for a PG that plays like he does.  He hasn't ever been hampered by the beginnings of a rebuild.



Now, the team needs him to be more of an AI?  Does Rondo even have the offensive weapons that AI had when he was considered the only weapon on a team that made the finals?



(and no, I would not want an AI player instead of Rondo)

  Right now the only reason Boston isn't at least average on offense is too many turnovers. Where's the evidence that we need AI on offense?

[Celtics18]

Really?  To me the pull up three is the most soulless shot in basketball. 

But it can look soooooooooo gooooooooood.

Although the stepback fadeaway is still, and will probably always be, the prettiest shot in the game.

To me, nothing beats a one handed, off the dribble bounce pass from close to mid court through two or three defenders that sits up perfectly and finds a teammate at the rim for an easy lay up.  Now that's pretty. 

[wdleehi]

Of course he makes them better.


The better question:  Does this team help Rondo be better?



I don't think it does.  Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great.  He needs better weapons.

Disagree completely with your assessment.

Why?   Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo?   Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates?  (or at least spreads the floor)

  So you're claiming that you don't see any players on the current roster that would benefit from getting easier scoring opportunities?

This roster is not filled with great shooters, that's when Rondo is at his best.  They have pick and pop with Bass and that's about it?  Last year he had Bass, KG, Pierce and JET.  This year he has Bass?  Who is going to consistently knock down shots, whether they are good looks or not?

  When you say "that's when Rondo is at his best", what are you basing that on? Can you show that Rondo's been unable to succeed without certain players on the court?

Can you show me the pass first PG who did not have a good outside shot (though Rondo has improved on his) that was at their "best" when surrounded by at best, decent offensive players and no real outside threat?

  Why don't you come up with a list of point guards with average or worse outside shots that do everything else on offense as well as Rondo and we'll go from there.

Because lets be honest, Rondo has been blessed with good shooters and good offensive players.  That's a positive thing for a PG that plays like he does.  He hasn't ever been hampered by the beginnings of a rebuild.



Now, the team needs him to be more of an AI?  Does Rondo even have the offensive weapons that AI had when he was considered the only weapon on a team that made the finals?



(and no, I would not want an AI player instead of Rondo)

  Right now the only reason Boston isn't at least average on offense is too many turnovers. Where's the evidence that we need AI on offense?

AI's teams were average on offense when he wasn't playing as well.   Someone has to take shots and someone will make baskets.  They are still pros. 






Why don't you give us the example of when Rondo took a team like we see now and made them a playoff team?



Of course you can't because he never has been handcuffed like he will be with this team. 


Jason Kidd has some bad teams when there were no good options for him to pass to.   Same with Steve Nash.   

[Fafnir]

Boston also needs to get more free throws if they want to have an average offense in addition to turning it over less.