Author Topic: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year  (Read 8598 times)

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Re: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2013, 12:01:54 PM »

Offline JSD

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Even though I believe they started rebuilding a year too late (a misleading Heat series contributed to them spending a bunch of money on Terry and Lee and extending Bass and Garnett).

Of course you believe that now, everyone does. With the benefit of hindsight it has become a fact.

There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild after the series, I only recently joined this site but I didn't want to try to "reload".

  There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild in 2009 after KG missed the playoffs with a knee injury.

The extreme minority at best. I don't remember anyone on hereor anywhere else p---ed off about the Lee/Terry signings or the Bass/KG extentions when they took place.
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Re: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2013, 02:18:54 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Even though I believe they started rebuilding a year too late (a misleading Heat series contributed to them spending a bunch of money on Terry and Lee and extending Bass and Garnett).

Of course you believe that now, everyone does. With the benefit of hindsight it has become a fact.

There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild after the series, I only recently joined this site but I didn't want to try to "reload".

  There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild in 2009 after KG missed the playoffs with a knee injury.

The extreme minority at best. I don't remember anyone on hereor anywhere else p---ed off about the Lee/Terry signings or the Bass/KG extentions when they took place.
I was and I made that clear from the get go.  Plenty of posts from me on the subject at that time.
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Re: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2013, 12:33:47 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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Even though I believe they started rebuilding a year too late (a misleading Heat series contributed to them spending a bunch of money on Terry and Lee and extending Bass and Garnett).

Of course you believe that now, everyone does. With the benefit of hindsight it has become a fact.

There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild after the series, I only recently joined this site but I didn't want to try to "reload".

  There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild in 2009 after KG missed the playoffs with a knee injury.

The extreme minority at best. I don't remember anyone on hereor anywhere else p---ed off about the Lee/Terry signings or the Bass/KG extentions when they took place.

I don't frequent the boards regularly so you'd just have to take my word for it that my comment wasn't based on 20/20 hindsight. They had a lot of contracts coming off the books that year and they didn't look like they were getting any better. They could have initiated some trades/sign-and-trades with Pierce and Garnett's input to get them somewhere desirable. Even though the Celtics brass put out a lot of "this next draft is bad, wait for next year" propaganda, my instinct is always to rebuild if you're not really a title contender.

That being said, I was pleasantly surprised with how much they were able to get for Pierce and Garnett a year later, with the one negative being Terry's bad deal meant the Celts had to take Wallace back.






Re: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2013, 12:45:10 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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That being said, I was pleasantly surprised with how much they were able to get for Pierce and Garnett a year later, with the one negative being Terry's bad deal meant the Celts had to take Wallace back.

My estimate is that Pierce and Garnett were each worth a first-round pick and the third first-round pick in the deal was basically compensation for swapping Terry for Wallace.  I'm too lazy to do the math, but I suspect removing Terry, Wallace, and the third pick from the deal would remove or greatly decrease the trade exception the Celtics picked up.  If that ends up being used to acquire a good player, including Terry and Wallace in the deal would definitely be a net positive for the Celtics.
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Re: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2013, 01:29:42 AM »

Offline Jailan34

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Even though I believe they started rebuilding a year too late (a misleading Heat series contributed to them spending a bunch of money on Terry and Lee and extending Bass and Garnett).

Of course you believe that now, everyone does. With the benefit of hindsight it has become a fact.

There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild after the series, I only recently joined this site but I didn't want to try to "reload".

  There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild in 2009 after KG missed the playoffs with a knee injury.

The extreme minority at best. I don't remember anyone on hereor anywhere else p---ed off about the Lee/Terry signings or the Bass/KG extentions when they took place.
I was and I made that clear from the get go.  Plenty of posts from me on the subject at that time.

I mean, I've just never really liked Bass, his jumper is great but the dude is like 6'7 w/o shoes i think and that's not the height needed to be a starting power forward on a championship team. Also to me jason terry was meh, I would've rather had ray.
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Re: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2013, 01:50:03 AM »

Offline sunnyd656

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Even though I believe they started rebuilding a year too late (a misleading Heat series contributed to them spending a bunch of money on Terry and Lee and extending Bass and Garnett).

Of course you believe that now, everyone does. With the benefit of hindsight it has become a fact.

There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild after the series, I only recently joined this site but I didn't want to try to "reload".

I agree.  Cs didn't come close on game 6 at home.  That was the flag right there.  No contest
on game 7
.  We got far, but DRose sat out giving us an opening.  Most people also forget we barely beat Philly earlier in the series.

You must have missed the game.
  Every year there are 6-7 teams with a lower winning percentage than our current record. I think we've gotten so used to ignoring the bottom feeders since 2008 that we've forgotten how bad some teams are.

Re: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2013, 06:27:58 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Even though I believe they started rebuilding a year too late (a misleading Heat series contributed to them spending a bunch of money on Terry and Lee and extending Bass and Garnett).

Of course you believe that now, everyone does. With the benefit of hindsight it has become a fact.

There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild after the series, I only recently joined this site but I didn't want to try to "reload".

  There were plenty of people who wanted to rebuild in 2009 after KG missed the playoffs with a knee injury.

The extreme minority at best. I don't remember anyone on hereor anywhere else p---ed off about the Lee/Terry signings or the Bass/KG extentions when they took place.

  Probably the minority, not the extreme minority. By March or so of 2010 it was a solid majority.

Re: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2013, 08:19:24 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Yeah but if we had traded Kedrick Brown instead of Joe Johnson, things might look a lot different.  Or maybe if we don't exercise that draft pick in the first place and let it roll over, things might look a little different.  We just didn't have a very good GM at the time, that was the problem.

I think mine's point still stands though, this ownership shouldn't trade any of our young talent in an effort to win now just because the rest of the east is so terrible too. They are, hopefully, committed to the rebuild of the team.
But had they swapped Kedrick Brown for Joe Johnson, your point might not exist at all because maybe that team makes the finals multiple times (JJ has been significantly better than Brown every year in the league past that first one).  Maybe with PP and JJ, Boston doesn't crater at all and is a consistent contender.  The problem with your premise is Boston had a sub-par GM at the time who made terrible decision after terrible decision.  A better GM and who knows what happens back then, which is why that trade was made in the first place (he also gave up a first rounder in the deal to compound the injury).
exactly. 
At the time of the trade, I couldn't understand why JJ was shipped out instead of Kedrick.  JJ showed real potential until he hit the rookie wall.  Kedrick didn't show anything, ever.  getting Rogers and Delk was a good move for that year but would have been much better if JJ was kept and they resigned Rodney the following year to negate teh 'need' to deal for Vin Baker. 
Of course if the C's didn't use the pick on Kedrick and just rolled it over until the mega-draft that was coming up, JJ would have had to have been in that deal anyway but we'd have picked up a much better player in that draft (Wade, Bosh, etc...)

Re: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2013, 09:24:15 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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Yeah but if we had traded Kedrick Brown instead of Joe Johnson, things might look a lot different.  Or maybe if we don't exercise that draft pick in the first place and let it roll over, things might look a little different.  We just didn't have a very good GM at the time, that was the problem.

I think mine's point still stands though, this ownership shouldn't trade any of our young talent in an effort to win now just because the rest of the east is so terrible too. They are, hopefully, committed to the rebuild of the team.
But had they swapped Kedrick Brown for Joe Johnson, your point might not exist at all because maybe that team makes the finals multiple times (JJ has been significantly better than Brown every year in the league past that first one).  Maybe with PP and JJ, Boston doesn't crater at all and is a consistent contender.  The problem with your premise is Boston had a sub-par GM at the time who made terrible decision after terrible decision.  A better GM and who knows what happens back then, which is why that trade was made in the first place (he also gave up a first rounder in the deal to compound the injury).
exactly. 
At the time of the trade, I couldn't understand why JJ was shipped out instead of Kedrick.  JJ showed real potential until he hit the rookie wall.  Kedrick didn't show anything, ever.  getting Rogers and Delk was a good move for that year but would have been much better if JJ was kept and they resigned Rodney the following year to negate teh 'need' to deal for Vin Baker. 
Of course if the C's didn't use the pick on Kedrick and just rolled it over until the mega-draft that was coming up, JJ would have had to have been in that deal anyway but we'd have picked up a much better player in that draft (Wade, Bosh, etc...)

My interpretation of what happened was 1) Phoenix wanted Johnson over Brown (a fair guess considering Johnson showed a lot more promise early that season and was more highly regarded as a prospect than Kedrick, who came from nowhere and was a surprise pick by the Celts) and 2) Joe Johnson wasn't thrilled with being a second banana to Pierce (speculation/educated guess) which made giving up on his talent easier from a Celts perspective. I don't think Phoenix ever gave the Celts an option to include Kedrick instead of Johnson, but maybe you know something I don't.

My suspicion about Johnson is mostly based on his grumbling about playing with Steve Nash (who would do that!?!) in Phoenix and forcing a trade to Atlanta where he could be "the man." He's like a lot of players (Marbury comes to mind) whose egos got in the way of their careers early, until they realized they weren't quite good enough to be the top dog on a team and later regretted forcing their way out of great situations.

Re: Thankful we won't repeat the mistakes of 01-02 this year
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2013, 03:36:18 PM »

Offline timpiker

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used to hate Barkley but in the last couple of years he does say some smart things every once in awhile